JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

There are many kinds of riches, I am sure you already know - and some you cannot take to the other world, while some kinds of treasure can. You are about the richest man I know, in that second type of treasures.

I think that we all hope to be as rich as you, even if we must live in financial poverty to get there.

If Tayopa were to give up her gold, to you, and you took it with you into the next life, it would be trodden under foot as pavement, while you are reunited with the love of your life.

We all follow you around, from breadcrumb to breadcrumb, to learn from you about following rainbows [emoji304]

So, for Oro’s post... Amen!

#/;0{>~

 

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[Unicorn]

How right you are Oro and Simon. I wish I could do more for our dear and mutual friend. For the first time in my life I can afford the air fare to visit Mexico, but am now too old. Gonna make that 150th Birthday party Jose has promised us though look forward to meeting you and Beth too.

Come on Jose give us a few posts. Even your views on an beautiful American actress becoming a Duchess when she marries a handsome English Prince. Wow what a fairy tale film that would make.

See yous all soon 'U'

 

[releventchair]

simon, not rich,gave it all up for her.

Aye Don Jose ,these folks are right. You got the better deal.
Great choice.

 

[Simon1]

Say Unicorn, I do not know how to do it, but if you can, maybe "skype" with Senor Don Jose ?

 

[fenixdigger]

Sorry to hear.

 

[gollum]

The way I heard it was for 200 years of "Hidden Mining", and ignoring 3 Royal Edits to stop. Hidden mining meaning not paying the King of Spain "His Fair Share". All gold except personal jewelry, which is way they find gold ropes and chains at the ship wreck sites. As long as they wore them it was "Personal Jewelry", and a Tithe of 10% of all Silver. I have no idea where "The Royal Fifth" came from. If anyone can document it for me without using a book sold for profit, then I would believe it.
IE Spanish documents. The Jesuits also got in trouble because they would not give the gold and silver to the Popes either back then. IMO

AUDIGGER53,

Officially, it didn't have anything to do with mining.

The Jesuit Order were/are "Old School" Catholics. They supported the Inquisitions, etc. King Charles was a supporter of the "Enlightened Movement". The Jesuits considered that a watered down form of Catholicism. From the day Charles was crowned, the Jesuit Order was against him. They spread rumors that he was not a true Catholic King. They trash talked him every chance they got. His advisers were telling him about all their backstabbing for several years, but since they were so close to the Pope, he didn't take any actions against them. When the "Esquillache Riots" occurred in Spain in 1766, several Jesuits were caught paying rioters to keep rioting. After that, he couldn't ignore them any more. They were rounded up in Europe on 1 April 1767, and at 1am on 26 June 1767 in the New World.

Charles never publicly stated any detailed reasons for the Jesuit Suppression, but he stated much of what I have written above in a letter to the Marquis d'Ossun after the fact. Illegal mining may have played a part, but it wasn't the biggest thing (he did complain about it several times officially). The Jesuit Order was also saving up a lot of gold and silver from their 23 or so mines along the Sacambaya River, in order purchase Bolivia and turn it into a Jesuit Enclave. Most of that plan was squashed after the Guarani Revolt.

Mike

 

[Honest Samuel]

I am old school Catholic.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

gollum another one that could have the straw that broke the bucke ,t was theii planned rebellion to take North America away from Spain , with the help of the Dutch. This is why they stockpiled bars at several places, such as Caballo and Victorio peak, to cover the expenses of the revolt.

 

[gollum]

gollum another one that could have the straw that broke the bucke ,t was theii planned rebellion to take North America away from Spain , with the help of the Dutch. This is why they stockpiled bars at several places, such as Caballo and Victorio peak, to cover the expenses of the revolt.

You are right about that as well.

Did you get my PM?

Mike

 

[Real of Tayopa]

no, umtil tonight.

 

[Jimi_X]

Quote Originally Posted by Real of Tayopa View Post
gollum another one that could have the straw that broke the bucke ,t was theii planned rebellion to take North America away from Spain , with the help of the Dutch. This is why they stockpiled bars at several places, such as Caballo and Victorio peak, to cover the expenses of the revolt.

You are right about that as well.

Did you get my PM?

Mike

Mike, in previous threads, you stated that the Jesuits had their own treasure symbols, which was verbally passed down, and that any similarity to Spanish symbols, was meant to throw off those who thought they were following a correct map.

I would like to ask you how do you suspect that Maximilian found out about the horde in Victorio Peak? Considering the statements of Doc Noss, and the items that bore Charlotta's name, one would think that the Jesuits would NEVER have told Maximilian about this treasure repository.

I'd also like to add that "the Grey Ghost", that Geronimo's sister saw, was probably a trusted aide of Maximilian, and was seeking this place to hide Maximilian's loot prior to him leaving Mexico....But why would the secretive Jesuits ever have told anyone, not of their order, the location of this horde?

 

[gollum]

Quote Originally Posted by Real of Tayopa View Post
gollum another one that could have the straw that broke the bucke ,t was theii planned rebellion to take North America away from Spain , with the help of the Dutch. This is why they stockpiled bars at several places, such as Caballo and Victorio peak, to cover the expenses of the revolt.

Mike, in previous threads, you stated that the Jesuits had their own treasure symbols, which was verbally passed down, and that any similarity to Spanish symbols, was meant to throw off those who thought they were following a correct map.

I would like to ask you how do you suspect that Maximilian found out about the horde in Victorio Peak? Considering the statements of Doc Noss, and the items that bore Charlotta's name, one would think that the Jesuits would NEVER have told Maximilian about this treasure repository.

I'd also like to add that "the Grey Ghost", that Geronimo's sister saw, was probably a trusted aide of Maximilian, and was seeking this place to hide Maximilian's loot prior to him leaving Mexico....But why would the secretive Jesuits ever have told anyone, not of their order, the location of this horde?

I dont think I ever said I believed that Maximillian knew about VP. I believe SOMEONE used VP as a repository for gold ingots. Over the couple of hundred years the Apache rode shod over the area, they found the secret entrances. The Apache didnt have any use for gold, so they left it alone. As they killed whites/Mexicans/Spaniards that they caught in their AO (Area of Operation), they removed any valuables, and stored them in the cave system at VP. Aafter all, its not called Victorio Peak for nothing. After the Apache were decimated in the 1880s, everything sat quiet until 1928, sometime after Willie Douthitt murdered Jack Reynolds for his map.

What I said about Jesuit Symbolism is also absolutely true. I never said it was necessarily ONLY passed down verbally, but use your common sense. If you and I knew all the same treasure symbols, and you wanted to hide a treasure from me, would you REALLY use the same symbols that I knew, or would you:

A: Use our common symbols with different meanings to throw me off


or



B: Use a completely different set of symbols?

 

[sdcfia]

I dont think I ever said I believed that Maximillian knew about VP. I believe SOMEONE used VP as a repository for gold ingots. Over the couple of hundred years the Apache rode shod over the area, they found the secret entrances. The Apache didnt have any use for gold, so they left it alone. As they killed whites/Mexicans/Spaniards that they caught in their AO (Area of Operation), they removed any valuables, and stored them in the cave system at VP. Aafter all, its not called Victorio Peak for nothing. After the Apache were decimated in the 1880s, everything sat quiet until 1928, sometime after Willie Douthitt murdered Jack Reynolds for his map.

What I said about Jesuit Symbolism is also absolutely true. I never said it was necessarily ONLY passed down verbally, but use your common sense. If you and I knew all the same treasure symbols, and you wanted to hide a treasure from me, would you REALLY use the same symbols that I knew, or would you:

A: Use our common symbols with different meanings to throw me off


or



B: Use a completely different set of symbols?

It became 'Victorio Peak' following the Battle of Hembrillo Basin between the Apaches and the US Army's 9th Cavalry in 1880. Prior to that, it was known as 'Soledad', a name that also later entered treasure lore in the Organ Mountains south of the basin.

The best code is the one not recognizable. The best place to hide something is in plain sight.

 

[deducer]

It became 'Victorio Peak' following the Battle of Hembrillo Basin between the Apaches and the US Army's 9th Cavalry in 1880. Prior to that, it was known as 'Soledad', a name that also later entered treasure lore in the Organ Mountains south of the basin.

The best code is the one not recognizable. The best place to hide something is in plain sight.

I have in my possession a letter written by someone who had seen a collection of series of urgent letters sent from one mission to another described as "reference's (that) are made to caches being buried for protection.." and that one portion of a series of pack trains were headed for "Soledad Peak," two other portions were headed for two other locations.

 

[sdcfia]

I have in my possession a letter written by someone who had seen a collection of series of urgent letters sent from one mission to another described as "reference's (that) are made to caches being buried for protection.." and that one portion of a series of pack trains were headed for "Soledad Peak," two other portions were headed for two other locations.

I imagine the information is proprietary, but I'll ask anyway: did that person mention if the letters were dated, what was causing the state of urgency and where the other two destinations were? If the correspondence was between Jesuits, it seems risky that they might be sending valuables to hide in the location we know today as Soledad Peak, ie, near a Franciscan stronghold.

We know about the two Soledad Peaks in NM's lower Rio Grande Valley. What we don't know is how many other mountains have been named or referred to as Soledad Peak in the Southwest during historic times. 'Soledad' means isolated, lonely, etc. - a generic description that could have referred to a number of mountains by clergy, military, miners, settlers, natives, et al, at various times and places. Place names certainly have a history of coming, going or changing as time goes by.

 

[gollum]

I imagine the information is proprietary, but I'll ask anyway: did that person mention if the letters were dated, what was causing the state of urgency and where the other two destinations were? If the correspondence was between Jesuits, it seems risky that they might be sending valuables to hide in the location we know today as Soledad Peak, ie, near a Franciscan stronghold. We know about the two Soledad Peaks in NM's lower Rio Grande Valley. What we don't know is how many other mountains have been named or referred to as Soledad Peak in the Southwest during historic times. 'Soledad' means isolated, lonely, etc. - a generic description that could have referred to a number of mountains by clergy, military, miners, settlers, natives, et al, at various times and places. Place names certainly have a history of coming, going or changing as time goes by.

Yes, the solitary peak just South of the border at Anza-Borrego Desert was cal;led Soledad. It was the point at which Capt. DeAnza turned North along the DeAnza Trail.I also doubt the likelihood the letter is Jesuit in origin. Remember the orders given to all Jesuit Missionary Priests saying that if they needed to write sensitive letters they should be written in a manner that no one would understand, and then they were to destroy them once read, because "Littera Scripta Manent" (the written word remains). These orders are documented in Father Polzer SJ's Book "Rules and Precepts of Jesuit Missions in Northwestern New Spain"Mike

 

[gflores71]

AUDIGGER53,

Officially, it didn't have anything to do with mining.

The Jesuit Order were/are "Old School" Catholics. They supported the Inquisitions, etc. King Charles was a supporter of the "Enlightened Movement". The Jesuits considered that a watered down form of Catholicism. From the day Charles was crowned, the Jesuit Order was against him. They spread rumors that he was not a true Catholic King. They trash talked him every chance they got. His advisers were telling him about all their backstabbing for several years, but since they were so close to the Pope, he didn't take any actions against them. When the "Esquillache Riots" occurred in Spain in 1766, several Jesuits were caught paying rioters to keep rioting. After that, he couldn't ignore them any more. They were rounded up in Europe on 1 April 1767, and at 1am on 26 June 1767 in the New World.

Charles never publicly stated any detailed reasons for the Jesuit Suppression, but he stated much of what I have written above in a letter to the Marquis d'Ossun after the fact. Illegal mining may have played a part, but it wasn't the biggest thing (he did complain about it several times officially). The Jesuit Order was also saving up a lot of gold and silver from their 23 or so mines along the Sacambaya River, in order purchase Bolivia and turn it into a Jesuit Enclave. Most of that plan was squashed after the Guarani Revolt.

Mike

Man do I wish they would have purchased Bolivia.... we are now dealing with this corrupt " narco-socialist " govt.

G

 

[Oroblanco]

I have in my possession a letter written by someone who had seen a collection of series of urgent letters sent from one mission to another described as "reference's (that) are made to caches being buried for protection.." and that one portion of a series of pack trains were headed for "Soledad Peak," two other portions were headed for two other locations.

If it would not affect your own work, would you post the letters? I would sure appreciate it, and if you would rather not post them I will understand completely and not ask further. Thank you in any case.

Please do continue;

 

[Holyground]

Scorch,

From both sides of the fence, it's considered fake.

"The document is considered fake by the Jesuits themselves,as well as many of their supporters and opponents."

It's easy enough to Google.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

And I suppose that the Jesuits would tell you if their real maps are real?

 

[gollum]

And I suppose that the Jesuits would tell you if their real maps are real?

Just like Father Polzer SJ. Any time he was shown an ingot attributed to Jesuits, he would proclaim them as fakes. Not because of any scientific method, but according to him, Jesuits never had treasure, so the bars must be fakes. Although, in (IIRC)1986, when someone claimed to have found Tayopa, Father Polzer flew to Mexico to claim it for the Church. LOL

Mike