JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[sdcfia]

I would have to agree in general with Cactusjumper, but also respectfully disagree IN PART. Certainly not ALL of the Jesuits opponents believe the Monita Secreta to be fake.

Monita Secreta Societatis Jesu - Biblical Cyclopedia

Yeah, I don't doubt that the Order's damage control was a focused task. Below is a thumbnail summary of the document from Wiki. Sounds like the Jesuits, all right. This bunch is a lot like our own government: never believe them.

"According to the Monita, every means is to be employed of acquiring wealth for the order, by enticing promising young men to enter it and endow it with their estates; rich widows are to be cajoled and dissuaded from remarriage; every means is to be used for the advancement of Jesuits to bishoprics or other ecclesiastical dignities and to discredit the members of other orders, while the world is to be persuaded that the Society is animated by the purest and least interested motives: the reputation of those who quit it is to be assailed and maligned in every way."

 

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[cactusjumper]

Yeah, I don't doubt that the Order's damage control was a focused task. Below is a thumbnail summary of the document from Wiki. Sounds like the Jesuits, all right. This bunch is a lot like our own government: never believe them.

"According to the Monita, every means is to be employed of acquiring wealth for the order, by enticing promising young men to enter it and endow it with their estates; rich widows are to be cajoled and dissuaded from remarriage; every means is to be used for the advancement of Jesuits to bishoprics or other ecclesiastical dignities and to discredit the members of other orders, while the world is to be persuaded that the Society is animated by the purest and least interested motives: the reputation of those who quit it is to be assailed and maligned in every way."

Steve,

I'm sure the Jesuits who died on their knees praying while being bludgeoned and filled with arrows, were wondering if they had done enough to fill the coffers of the Order. Could they have squeezed a few more dollars out of the poor widows in their church?

I have read both sides of the Jesuit debate for many years now. I have no dog in the fight, but find more on the plus side of the order as opposed to the negative side. Raised as a Catholic, I turned against the church at an early age.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sdcfia]

Steve,

I'm sure the Jesuits who died on their knees praying while being bludgeoned and filled with arrows, were wondering if they had done enough to fill the coffers of the Order. Could they have squeezed a few more dollars out of the poor widows in their church?

I have read both sides of the Jesuit debate for many years now. I have no dog in the fight, but find more on the plus side of the order as opposed to the negative side. Raised as a Catholic, I turned against the church at an early age.

Take care,

Joe

Well, enthusiastic foot soldiers often pay a painful price for the sins of their generals. Must be a universal law of some sort.

I was expelled from Sunday School at age seven for asking too many uncomfortable questions, so I plunged into the spiritual quest armed with little but my own noggin to work with. So I guess I'm not in a position to spout much dogma, except to note that as purveyors of crowd control, the catlicks certainly have a track record.

 

[Oroblanco]

Just a side thing here but Joe have you read the Monita Secreta?

 

[gflores71]

Well I am back State side and sad to tell you all that I was not able to reach the Jesuit ruins. The roads were a mess.
Will try again the first week of April.
Now back to being on call .

 

[cactusjumper]

Just a side thing here but Joe have you read the Monita Secreta?

Roy,

I have. Do you have a copy?

Take care,


Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I have. Do you have a copy?

Take care,


Joe

I have a digital copy, but can find it if needed. Did you find it so farfetched? I didn't, and am not at all convinced that it was ever a fake. It struck me as a logical layout of how to help support the Order, perhaps a bit underhanded but "the ends justify the means" is well known. They (the Jesuits) have shown a rather remarkable avarice in Europe in their early days, so such a manual of instructions would be very much in keeping with the overall behavior which included rather unattractive methods in some cases. I doubt that it was ever intended for public consumption.

I hope all is well with you, and winter is not being too rough on you there!

 

[janos123]

hello!!! I am from Sonora, Mexico and yes jesuit treasures are real people have found them even here in my home town but no one seems to talk about it

 

[audigger53]

Welcome, if you go over by Naco, be careful of the Cartels in the hills.

 

[Scorch]

I would have to agree in general with Cactusjumper, but also respectfully disagree IN PART. Certainly not ALL of the Jesuits opponents believe the Monita Secreta to be fake.

Monita Secreta Societatis Jesu - Biblical Cyclopedia

- Well, thats kinda where I'm at,

- Your link/article about it, shows that there were a few copies of it found around Europe in different places. Some of them in manuscript, apparently.

- But if the 'monita' is a 'Fabrication', then how did all those little books it apparently copied almost verbatim, get planted in those unaccessible libraries, and other private possessions, so many years beforehand, to be used as 'authentication' to prove it is 'genuine'. That would be an impossibllity, I would think.

- But there are many things I do not understand. Used to be, if something looked like a duck, and quacked like a duck, and walked like a duck, then it was pretty much a duck.

Thanks,

Scorch

 

[Oroblanco]

- Well, thats kinda where I'm at,

- Your link/article about it, shows that there were a few copies of it found around Europe in different places. Some of them in manuscript, apparently.

- But if the 'monita' is a 'Fabrication', then how did all those little books it apparently copied almost verbatim, get planted in those unaccessible libraries, and other private possessions, so many years beforehand, to be used as 'authentication' to prove it is 'genuine'. That would be an impossibllity, I would think.

- But there are many things I do not understand. Used to be, if something looked like a duck, and quacked like a duck, and walked like a duck, then it was pretty much a duck.

Thanks,

Scorch

It looks like we are on the same page. Of course the Jesuit apologists seem to identify anything and anyone that might cast a shadow on the Order as "enemies" and "fakes" to discredit them. I don't see how it (the Monita Secreta) could have been faked, just very embarrassing for the Order that it got out.



Janos123 Welcome to Treasurenet! I envy you for your location, Sonora has a rich history and numerous old mines including lost ones. We don't mind discussing the Jesuits here.

 

[cactusjumper]

It looks like we are on the same page. Of course the Jesuit apologists seem to identify anything and anyone that might cast a shadow on the Order as "enemies" and "fakes" to discredit them. I don't see how it (the Monita Secreta) could have been faked, just very embarrassing for the Order that it got out.



Janos123 Welcome to Treasurenet! I envy you for your location, Sonora has a rich history and numerous old mines including lost ones. We don't mind discussing the Jesuits here.

Roy,

What you say could be the truth. On the other hand, it's also possible the monita is a fabrication that was disseminated by enemies of the Jesuits, and they are many.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sdcfia]

Roy,

What you say could be the truth. On the other hand, it's also possible the monita is a fabrication that was disseminated by enemies of the Jesuits, and they are many.

Take care,

Joe

That’s an interesting conundrum, isn't it? It seems to me that the reason the SJ had (have) so many enemies may well be linked to the information contained in the document. A chicken-or-egg choice.

 

[cactusjumper]

That’s an interesting conundrum, isn't it? It seems to me that the reason the SJ had (have) so many enemies may well be linked to the information contained in the document. A chicken-or-egg choice.

Steve,

I don't believe there is any "conundrum". You had to have a chicken to lay the first egg.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Steve,

I don't believe there is any "conundrum". You had to have a chicken to lay the first egg.

Take care,

Joe

It also follows that where there is a lot of smoke, most generally there is a fire.

 

[Loke]

It also follows that where there is a lot of smoke, most generally there is a fire.

Might be a fogger - he he

 

[sdcfia]

Steve,

I don't believe there is any "conundrum". You had to have a chicken to lay the first egg.

Take care,

Joe

Well, that’s one way of looking at it for sure. We know that the boys sure have laid their share of eggs - or feathered their nest, or whatever acts build a reputation.

 

[cactusjumper]

It also follows that where there is a lot of smoke, most generally there is a fire.

Roy,

Quite often, a lot of smoke means someone is trying to obscure the truth. (i.e.: smokescreen) The Catholic Church has a lot of bad history to answer for. Their efforts on the good side of the ledger tend to balance things out, in my opinion. They lost me at a very young age.

Quite cold here today, hope you guys are staying warm.

Take care,

Joe

 

[audigger53]

Joe when you say cold it might mean frost. For me and Oro it means snow and sleet. LOL

 

[audigger53]

Roy,

Quite often, a lot of smoke means someone is trying to obscure the truth. (i.e.: smokescreen) The Catholic Church has a lot of bad history to answer for. Their efforts on the good side of the ledger tend to balance things out, in my opinion. They lost me at a very young age.

Quite cold here today, hope you guys are staying warm.

Take care,

Joe

Joe can't PM you, too many PMs in your que.