JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

Sommervogel has already drawn up a list of 120,000 Jesuit authors and he has restricted himself to those who have ceased from their labors on earth and are now only busy in reading the book of life. Nor do these 120,000 authors merely connote 120,000 books; for some of these writers were most prolific in their publications. The illustrious Gretser, for instance, " the Hammer of Heretics," as he was called, is credited with two hundred and twenty-nine titles of printed works and thirty-nine MSS. which range over the whole field of erudition open to his times: archaeology, numismatics, theology, philology, polemics, liturgy, and so on. Kircher, who died in 1680, wrote about everything. During the time he sojourned in Rome, he issued forty-four folio volumes on subjects that are bewildering in their diversity and originality : hieroglyphics, astronomy, astrology, medico-physics, linguistics, ethnology, horoscopy, and what not else besides. We owe to him the earliest counting-machine, and it was he who perfected the Aeolian harp, the speaking tube, and the microscope.

Famian Strada distinguished himself in 1632 by his " Wars of Flanders," and the work was continued by two of his religious brethren, Dondini and Gallucio. Clavigero's " Ancient History of Mexico," in three quarto volumes, published after the Suppression, is a notable work, as are also his " History of California," and a third on the " Spanish Conquest." legre's three volumes, " History of the Society of Jesus in New Spain" is of great value. Mariana's complete " History of Spain," in twenty-five books, is still recognized as an authority, and it will be of interest to know that as late as 1888 a statue was erected at Talavera, in honor of the same tumultuous writer, who was incarcerated for his book on " Finance." Charlevoix's voluminous histories of New France, of Japan, of Paraguay, and of Santo Domingo are also worthy of consideration. Bancroft frequently refers to him as a valuable historian, and John Gilmary Shea insists that he is too generally esteemed to need commendation.

Molina was the first Jesuit to write a commentary on the theological " Summa " of St. Thomas, and was followed by Cardinal Toletus and those other brilliant Spaniards, Gregory of Valencia, Suarez, Vasquez, and Didacus Ruiz. Suarez, the most prominent among them, is also the foremost theologian the Society of Jesus has produced. His renown is due not only to the fertility and wealth of his literary productions, but also to his clearness, moderation, depth and circumspection. He had a critic, both subtle and severe, in his colleague, Gabriel Vasquez.

It is this period from 1615 to 1664, which, for some undiscoverable reason, is described both by Ranke and Bohmer-Monod as marking the deterioration and decay of the Society. An examination of this indictment is, of course, imperative; and though it must necessarily be somewhat polemical, it may be helpful to a better understanding of the situation and give a more complete knowledge of facts. Ranke begins his attack by throwing discredit on Vitelleschi, describing him as a man of " little learning," adducing as his authority for this assertion a phrase in some Italian writer who says that Vitelleschi was a man di poche lettre ma di santitd. di vita non ordinaria." Now the obvious meaning of this is, not that he was a man of " little learning," but that " he wrote very few letters." As he belonged to an unusally illustrious family of princes, cardinals, and popes; and as he had not only made the full course of studies in the Society, but had taught philosophy and theology for several years and was subsequently appointed to be the Rector of the Collegium Maximum of Naples, which was the Society's house of advanced studies, and as he was, besides, the author of several learned works, it is manifestly ridiculous to class him with the illiterates. As a matter of fact, ^'lutius Vitelleschi was a far better educated man than Leopold von Ranke.

The famous English nun, Mary Ward, appeared in Rome and proposed to establish a religious congregation which would do for women in their own sphere what the Jesuits were
doing for men, refered to as "Jesuitesses." They began their work, and were approved by the Holy See in 1639. At first, they were known in Rome as " The English Ladies." In Ireland and America they are " The Loretto Nuns " Father Vitelleschi encouraged them.

First to furnish the learned world with information about Mexico and California as far as the Rio Grande, travelled by Kino (1644-1711), Sedlmayer (1703-79) and Baegert (1717-77)

State of the Society — The Seven Years War — Political Changes — Rulers of Spain. Portugal, Naples, France and Austria — Febronius — Sentiments of the Hierarchy — Popes Benedict XIV; Clement XIII; Clement XIV. Just before its suppression, the Society had about 23,000 members. It was divided into forty-two provinces in which there were 24 houses of professed fathers, 669 colleges, 61 novitiates, 335 residences and 273 mission stations. Taking this grand total in detail, there were in Italy 3,622 Jesuits, about onehalf of whom were priests. They possessed 178
houses. The provinces of Spain had 2,943 members (1,342 priests) and 158 houses; Portugal, 861 members (384 priests), 49 houses; France, 3,350 members (1,763 priests), 158 houses; Germany, 5,340 members (2,558 priests), 307 houses; Poland, 2,359 members; Flemish Belgium, 542 members (232 priests), 30 houses; French Belgian, 471 members (266 priests), 25 houses; England, 274 members; and Ireland, 28. Their missions were in all parts of the world. In Hindostan, de Nobili, and de Britto's work was being carried on; in Madura, there were forty-seven missionaries. The establishments in Persia extended to Ispahan and counted 400,000 Catholics. Syria, the Levant and the Maronites were also being looked after. Although Christianity had been crushed as early as 1644, the name of the province of Japan was preserved, and in 1760 it counted fifty- seven members. There were fifty-four Portuguese Fathers attached to China at the time of the Suppression, and an independent French mission had been organized at Pekin with twenty-three members mostly priests. In South America, the whole territory had been divided into missions, and there were 445 Jesuits in Brazil, with 146 in the vice- province of Maranhao. The Paraguay province contained 564 members of whom 385 were priests; they had 113,716 Indians in their care. In Mexico, which included Lower California, there were 572 Jesuits, who were devoting themselves to 122,000 Indians. New Granada had 193 missionaries; Chili had 242; Peru, 526; and Ecuador, 209.
In the United States, they were very few, on account of political conditions. At the time of the Suppression, they numbered only nine, two of whom Robert Molyneux and John Bolton survived until the complete restoration of the Society. The French had missions in Guiana, Hayti and Martinique; and in Canada, the work inaugurated by Brebeuf among the Hurons, was kept up among the Iroquois, Algonquins, Abenakis, Crees, Ottawas, Miamis and other tribes in Illinois, Alabama and Lower Mississippi. At the time of the Suppression there were fifty-five Jesuits in Canada and Louisiana.
Full text of "The Jesuits, 1534-1921; a history of the Society of Jesus from its foundation to the present time"
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Is it because there is too much information on the Jesuits that we have so much trouble figuring out what they were up to or because there were also many authors who wrote many derogatory articles about them out of ignorance or Biases?
 

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No, my guess is that the Priests would have definitely known who the coadjutors were. Each Priest had direct control over the inventories of their individual Missions/Churches. For someone to come in and tell them they had to give that all up, so it can be hidden doesn't make a lot of sense unless the Priests knew who the guys were that they were giving their adornments to.

Mike
 

Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
I am not talking about the missions, there the priest would have the last word subject to Rome's, but the mining in his area, for example
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More than likely, every Jesuit would have known his local coadjutors. The priests were probably the communications links to the coadjutors higher ups. That is probably one of the reasons the Jesuits were supposed to have been so careful as to destroy all correspondences (which many were lazy about doing). A regular person seen frequenting a high ranking Jesuit's Office would stand out like a sore thumb, but a normal guy going to the local Mission/Church and visiting the Priest would not attract much attention. Go to Church, go into the confessional, and pass your note to the Priest, who in turn encodes the note and passes it along to higher ups.

Sounds a little James Bondish, but the whole subject is kind of like that.

Mike
 

sailaway:

You posted this photo awhile back in this topic.

View attachment 1068607

I was wondering if you had the chance to look around where the rock was found in the Sups ?

I believe Mike has seen the same rock.....

View attachment 1068608

Looks like it's been moved though ?
 

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1568 rock.png

Mike's 1568 rock.png
 

gollum said:
Phil Reinhardt at the Superstition Mountain Museum would be able to answer your questions on that stone better than I. As I recall, it used to belong to Chuck Crawford who originally found it (I believe) somewhere in the Northern Supes.

Mike
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Thanks Mike. I had heard that it was formerly Crawford's as well.
 

Phil sent that photo to my phone. . Still in the same location. I contact Phil when going in and out of the trail heads for safety reasons.
 

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Yeah. I don't advertise that, so it doesn't get stolen. Good Job!

I know you want to leave an impression of having more info than others, but its not good etiquette to be broadcasting information like that. Notice how every time that pic comes up, I just say that Phil has more information, etc?

WOW! Sailaway has 40 pounds of rich gold ore hidden under his bed at 223 S main St .......... HAHAHA


Mike
 

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Well my gold is not under my bed anymore, It is under lock and key protected by the Feds. Phil is also my benefactor of any of my finds as the museum has a better chance than I do of keeping anything found. Could the 5 on that stone be the same 5 as the one on the horse map? (Survey Marker ) This in mind places it a Hill away across the river? The thing about the date is that the only Spanish who would have been there was the settlers of the town from St, Jerome #1 (San Heronimo or San Geronimo) the town that Coronado founded in the Valley of Hearts, this date is 28 years after the founding of that town.
 

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sailaway said:
Well my gold is not under my bed anymore, It is under lock and key protected by the Feds. Phil is also my benefactor of any of my finds as the museum has a better chance than I do of keeping anything found.
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Doesn't matter who your benefactor is. It's not good manners to post on a WORLDWIDEWEB that so and so has a particular piece of whatever at his home. ESPECIALLY when it is very easy to find his job/home. Someone follows him home, then waits till he's gone then hits his ............... and nabs the stone. YOUR FAULT! Nice way to repay your benefactor.

A guy named Jim Hatt that used to post (has since died) had someone find out where he lived, then shot and killed a burro and dog he had. Think someone wouldn't do that to steal something they think valuable?

What if it really isn't just a trail marker left in the 1940's like we all think it is. What if it were a Lemurian Treasure Marker? You just told the Feds where to find the guy that has it! Again, Good Job!

Mike
 

deducer said:
Curious as to the relevancy of this stone, SH. What do you think it pertains to?
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Nothing in particular. If it's a date, it's too early for Jesuits. If it's a survey marker of some kind, perhaps from when the Apache Trail was being built, or one of the dams, the 1565 may be an elevation... with the 5 being the corresponding location on the survey map. If no one other than Crawford knows exactly where it was found, it's not likely to be of any help now.
 

Gollum, during your posting you just did exactly what you are complaining about. You are giving away more information than I have. Look back and you posted more than I have about locations.
 

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Do you really believe in the Continent of MU? I edit all my post several times before I leave it. The part you referenced to was only there for a few seconds.
 

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The stone marking looks to be made from the same material with the heart's canyon stone .

rock.jpg Mike's%201568%20rock.jpg
 

Oroblanco said:
Sailaway wrote


　
Yes and no - the expedition was sent off the previous year, but did not involve the whole garrison only a portion:



There was no other campaign in 1767 involving the Tubac presidio, the year of the Jesuit expulsion, and even if Lt. Oliva's detachment was still absent, the returns for the garrison show:

- so should have had around forty officers and men at hand. The fort was never left utterly un-manned while it was an active fort. Source,

Tubac Through Four Centuries: An Historical Resume and Analysis

　
Real de Tayopa wrote


While I do not doubt that some visits may have occurred in the frontier by these "extraordinary" type Jesuits, I have not seen any mention of them, so far. Considering that the periodic visits by the Superior or Provincial are recorded to a degree (don't think that every such tour is in our 'library' of available information today) I would expect that a padre would likely have recorded such a visit which would have been an unusual event. It is also POSSIBLE that such a person might have traveled incognito, completely - so that not even the padres would know, in order to observe and report to the General what was going on at the missions.

Please do continue,
Oroblanco

　
:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
　
　
　
　
　
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Read that about Tubac. Thin traces of priests following expulsion.
This was interesting too.

http://uair.library.arizona.edu/item/210613

Followed by methods of slavery and an eventual mention of mining.
http://www.academia.edu/4190158/_Gr..._Punishment_The_Enslavement_of_Juan_Suni_1659
 

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