Jacob Waltz 160 acre 1/4 Section

[Gregory E. Davis]

Hello Enigma: That was an interesting article. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

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[roadrunner]

And Waltz was found standing on his bed in only ankle deep water.
Notice how his name is spelled also.
And it states the Dutchman.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hello Enigma: That was an interesting article. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hello Gregory,

I'm not sure I'm understanding the skepticism about the article. The article wasn't written during the flood in 1891. The author, Charles Sanderson is contemporary, he's still alive. His article took several news accounts of the flood directly from the Arizona Republican and Phoenix Herald Gazette. He was writing from the perspective of the Mexican population which did indeed bear the brunt of that flood as the Mexican community was kept in it's own areas and they were all on the south end of Phoenix, many lived closest to the river. The quotes about Waltz were things I've read in other articles and books. I thought it was a good and accurate accounting of what happened back in 1891. The part about Columbus Gray not abandoning his place (which indeed was in south Phoenix) until the last minute was absolutely true, recorded in all the newspapers of the day.

Matthew

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning everyone: Page 107 of book of Miscellaneous, Maricopa County, has been missing from the record book for many years. Someone tore out the page years ago however before it was removed, Milton Rose was able to get a copy of that page. Back in those days, before copy machines, the county clerk would make a hand written copy for a customer. This is what Rose obtained. I will now quote from that copy but before I do I want to make it clear that THIS IS NOT a copy of the document that Matthew is talking about! I repeat, this is NOT the copy of the land record that Matthew is discussing. "Book 1 of Misc., Page 107, Recorded and dated March 21, 1872. Affidavit. Recite: That Jacob Waltz who having sworn deposes and says that in the Month of March 1870 laid claim to and settled on Section 16, T1N, Range 3 East at the land office in Florence, Pima county, Territory of Arizona in December of 1870, that J.G. Chenoworth was trying to jump the lower half of the quarter section (Misc. 1/107) in March 1872. That said Jacob Waltz in front of witnesses had warned the aforementioned J. A. Chenoworth to get off his property and stay off. Signed, Jacob Waltz." I cannot account for some of the discrepancies in this document however I personally doubt that Waltz claimed the entire Section 16 and that for some reason a notation that he was talking about the 1/4 section was left off the document. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good morning everyone: Page 107 of book of Miscellaneous, Maricopa County, has been missing from the record book for many years. Someone tore out the page years ago however before it was removed, Milton Rose was able to get a copy of that page. Back in those days, before copy machines, the county clerk would make a hand written copy for a customer. This is what Rose obtained. I will now quote from that copy but before I do I want to make it clear that THIS IS NOT a copy of the document that Matthew is talking about! I repeat, this is NOT the copy of the land record that Matthew is discussing. "Book 1 of Misc., Page 107, Recorded and dated March 21, 1872. Affidavit. Recite: That Jacob Waltz who having sworn deposes and says that in the Month of March 1870 laid claim to and settled on Section 16, T1N, Range 3 East at the land office in Florence, Pima county, Territory of Arizona in December of 1870, that J.G. Chenoworth was trying to jump the lower half of the quarter section (Misc. 1/107) in March 1872. That said Jacob Waltz in front of witnesses had warned the aforementioned J. A. Chenoworth to get off his property and stay off. Signed, Jacob Waltz." I cannot account for some of the discrepancies in this document however I personally doubt that Waltz claimed the entire Section 16 and that for some reason a notation that he was talking about the 1/4 section was left off the document. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hello Gregory,

Thank you for posting that copy of Milton's. I have been accused many times by people who don't know any better of outright lying about Waltz filing his homestead claim at the Federal land office in Florence, Pima County AT.
Milton's document is just ONE example proving this to have been the case. It is clear Jacob Waltz at one time had claim to both the NE quarter of section 16 and also the SE quarter of section 16. I believe this affidavit is trying to say that JG Chenoworth was attempting to jump Waltz's claim to the "south half" ( SE quarter of section 16). Possibly the claim to the SE quarter section was in some kind of dispute between Waltz and Chenoworth.

That is why the recorder only designated the section as 16 and worded it as, " the lower half of the quarter section" meaning the lower of the two quarter sections. If Chenoworth was going to jump Waltz's claim he would jump an entire quarter section, not just the lower part of a quarter section, that would have made no sense legally or practically. Chenoworth was attempting to jump an entire quarter section and that quarter section was the SE 1/4 of section 16. That's how I have always read this and understand it as it would make no sense in any other imaginable terms or scenario.

Thanks again Gregory for posting this great historic and "missing" piece of Waltz's life !

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

Greg,

Hope all is well with you.

It's great to see you getting involved in posting here. In the 12 years since I came on the LDM Forum, I don't recall your ever posting this often. We are all better off for that involvement. As you know, I am, for the most part, interested in the true history of the area and the LDM.

Do you consider Milton Rose a credible source?

See you at the Rendezvous,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Took another shot at the map trying to get the right quarter section for Waltz's 160 acre homestead.

The correct 1/4 section is the NE 1/4 of Section 16 T1N R3E.

 

[Azhiker]

Thanks for your OPINION ozarker2.

Lets see now, how many posts have you had deleted by the moderators in the past for spreading your lies and attacking other members for trying to present their OPINIONS ?

I count 5 but thats just the ones I know about.
Looks like deleted posts and warnings don't stop someone whose only reason for being here is trolling and attacking members who try to post their opinions.
I'll take Matt Roberts opinion and history to yours any day. I've sat by and watched you make numerous errors in your posts and never felt the need to correct or attack you. To my knowledge Matt has never attacked or said one bad word to you.

The same individuals are here again to stalk and hijack another members thread, misdirect the truth and spread their lies. Moderators, where are you ?

Azhiker

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

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Now that is some self discipline, 18 months.

I wonder how this will turn out

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

deleted by mod

Thanks for your OPINION ozarker2.

Lets see now, how many posts have you had deleted by the moderators in the past for spreading your lies and attacking other members for trying to present their OPINIONS ?

I count 5 but thats just the ones I know about.
Looks like deleted posts and warnings don't stop someone whose only reason for being here is trolling and attacking members who try to post their opinions.
I'll take Matt Roberts opinion and history to yours any day. I've sat by and watched you make numerous errors in your posts and never felt the need to correct or attack you. To my knowledge Matt has never attacked or said one bad word to you.

The same individuals are here again to stalk and hijack another members thread, misdirect the truth and spread their lies. Moderators, where are you ?

Azhiker

Must have touched a nerve with you. Deal with the topic not jump on the poster.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Azhiker,

It does no good to argue or sink to ozarker2 and the others level. What I post is my opinion and what I've learned. I go out of my way to mention in almost every post that what I post is personal opinion.

Every thread I start is stalked by the same individuals who hijack the thread, misdirect it and insert their own off topic interpretations to anything and everything that is said. Then the personal attacks start. I have always been respectful to everyone on this forum and yes like you have sat back and said nothing while the resident experts make many errors. It's their opinion and I'm not the King of the forum to get into a screaming hissy fit with them every time I see something not right. Grown up men and women can disagree respectfully.

Matthew

 

[Tnmountains]

Good evening
Keep personal attacks out of the thread please. It is best to stay at the subject at hand if you wish to continue this discussion.
I also suggest all new members read the rules they are in a hyper link in my post.
Thank you kindly,
TnMtns

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Ozarker, you have made a total of one post here and you use it to attack a member...It was deleted post by TN rules...






American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"TreasureNet may not be used as a springboard to launch personal attacks of any kind. "

 

[cactusjumper]

TH,

"It does no good to argue or sink to ozarker2 and the others level. What I post is my opinion and what I've learned. I go out of my way to mention in almost every post that what I post is personal opinion.

Every thread I start is stalked by the same individuals who hijack the thread, misdirect it and insert their own off topic interpretations to anything and everything that is said. Then the personal attacks start."

That is very close to what Matthew posted about me previously, without any provocation.

You seem to be able to read Matthew's name into any post I write, even if I don't mention him by name. I take the above quote to be an attack on me. Not saying you are wrong, just not very even-handed in the mind reading dept.

Other than that, IMHP, you are doing a fine job.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

CJ,

My comment was not directed at any one person, it is directed at any who are violating TN rules if it fits....






American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......