Jackpot!!!!

[RKinOI]

Man I wish I could have dug these. My wifes uncle found these in a shoebox in the attic. His father dug these in Kinston N. C. a long time ago. Theres no question for me that they are real. What should I do and how do I authenticate them? These are just a few of the relics. I have a lot more

 

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[texan connection]

Tag, Why would any one replicate a 1870 sword plate and then add patina to it?It isent that valuable

 

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[BuckleBoy]

I find it Very curious that a FLOCK of new members have made this topic their first post on TreasureNet just to say that these plates are fakes.

Word gets around if someone comes across a cache of ultra, ultra-rare CS plates. If you think it's some conspiracy to cast doubt on some legitimate plates, so be it. You are welcome to take my bet.

I have my doubts myself about the pieces, but some of the more interesting ones I still cannot see a good photo of! So I am witholding my judgment on these for now.

I am no conspiracy theorist. However, it IS odd that so many "new" members are chiming in on these. I would urge the poster to not take ANY offers via PM for these items until he has had them authenticated. I am no spring chicken, and I have seen this before--on this forum in fact!--where an offer is made via PM and then the bearer of that offer creates several new accounts to tell the user that the item is fake.

-Buck

 

[ModernMiner]

I find it Very curious that a FLOCK of new members have made this topic their first post on TreasureNet just to say that these plates are fakes.

Word gets around if someone comes across a cache of ultra, ultra-rare CS plates. If you think it's some conspiracy to cast doubt on some legitimate plates, so be it. You are welcome to take my bet.

I have my doubts myself about the pieces, but some of the more interesting ones I still cannot see a good photo of! So I am witholding my judgment on these for now.

I am no conspiracy theorist. However, it IS odd that so many "new" members are chiming in on these. I would urge the poster to not take ANY offers via PM for these items until he has had them authenticated. I am no spring chicken, and I have seen this before--on this forum in fact!--where an offer is made via PM and then the bearer of that offer creates several new accounts to tell the user that the item is fake.

-Buck

Thanks for that input BB. Now that's sneaky!
And by the way, you certainly are no spring chicken. Maybe an old goose?
HH,
MM

 

[usmc0351]

I find it Very curious that a FLOCK of new members have made this topic their first post on TreasureNet just to say that these plates are fakes.

Word gets around if someone comes across a cache of ultra, ultra-rare CS plates. If you think it's some conspiracy to cast doubt on some legitimate plates, so be it. You are welcome to take my bet.

I have my doubts myself about the pieces, but some of the more interesting ones I still cannot see a good photo of! So I am witholding my judgment on these for now.

I am no conspiracy theorist. However, it IS odd that so many "new" members are chiming in on these. I would urge the poster to not take ANY offers via PM for these items until he has had them authenticated. I am no spring chicken, and I have seen this before--on this forum in fact!--where an offer is made via PM and then the bearer of that offer creates several new accounts to tell the user that the item is fake.

-Buck

would you mind giving me an example of this,,,that sounds very far fetched to me,,,,this is a metal detecting forum, not ebay, where someone has his buddies run the price up on something

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Quote from: BuckleBoy on Today at 02:49:47 PM
I find it Very curious that a FLOCK of new members have made this topic their first post on TreasureNet just to say that these plates are fakes.

Bill Battle replied:
Word gets around if someone comes across a cache of ultra, ultra-rare CS plates. If you think it's some conspiracy to cast doubt on some legitimate plates, so be it. You are welcome to take my bet.

Mr. Battle is correct. I'm not a new member here, I'm an old one. Joined in 2006.

It should not be a matter of curiosity that word does indeed get around to other relic-discussion forums on the internet about a fabulous cache of allegedly "dug" ultra-rare Confederate buckles & plates - and that people would join this website to post a comment about the miraculous "cache" from a dead relic-hunting uncle who allegedly dug them.

For credibility:
For over 30 years, I've been a well-known dealer of excavated civil war relics.

Here is my opinion about the items posted in this discussion-thread. To my eye, not a single one appears to be a genuine excavated civil war artifact. So, the claim that an uncle dug them (presumably from civil war battlefields & campsites) appears to be false. Also, all of them appear to be either Fantasy items or modernday Reproductions of original 1860s/70s military buckles & plates.

A Fantasy item is not a reproduction, because there never was an Original of the item to make a copy of. An example of a Fantasy item is the CSA buckle worn by the title character in the old TV series "The Rebel." The belt buckle the actor (Nick Adams) wore in the show never actually existed in 1861-65 ...it was just something made up by a Hollywood TV prop-department. Another example is the CS Oval buckle in this "cache." Absolutely NO specimens of Original oval CS buckles had a fully "lead-filled" back with arrowhead-shaped hooks. Therefore, that "cache" item cannot even be called a Reproduction. It is a common Fantasy souvenir item, available since the 1960s Civil War Centennial, and still being sold in nearly every Gettysburg civil war tourist shop.

Above, I said that none of the items in this "cache" appear to be genuine excavated ("dug") artifacts. But a few, such as the CS Oval, appear to have been buried in the ground just long enough for the metal to tarnish and for dirt to stick to it.

The other items in the "cache" appear to have been "artificially aged" without burial in the ground, but instead by the use of caustic chemicals, such as Comet Cleanser. Comet, in particular, tends to produce the blotches of turquoise/sky-blue oxide seen on several items in the "cache." I think almost every other relic-digger on this website will agree, that color is not found on genuine excavated civil war relics.

In closing... I do not expect anybody to simply take my word on any of the information above. I'll repeat what the more knowledgeable posters in this discussion have already said. If you find my opinion to be unsatisfactory, "Send the photos to several reputable civil war buckle dealers for their opinion & appraisal."

After that is done, please either destroy or otherwise permanently mark these "cache" items as being Reproduction/Fantasy items, because, as several commenters in this discussion-thread have demonstrated, these "cache" items can fool un-educated relic collectors ...for a while.

Best wishes,
TheCannonballGuy

 

[texan connection]

Looks Like some treasure depot experts chiming in, Im still wondering whya nyone would replicate a 1870 plate

 

[jeff of pa]

READ !

http://forum.treasurenet.com/authenticity

 

[IronSpike]

Found in a box 30 years in the attic. Some of these buckles could be real and some fakes. The only clear pic posted looks like a real buckle. NC red clay still on piece.

Added: I think better pics are needed. I know some will argue pics can't establish prove, although that seems to be the current basis. I do find it odd that the one good clear pic still shows clay on it

 

[johnnyi]

"READ !

http://forum.treasurenet.com/authenticity "

Jeff, thank you for posting this. I've been reading on the sidelines and learning far more from this one thread about the collecting of confederate relics, and as well, about the possibilities of them being faked and how specifically this can be done, then I ever would know otherwise and I thank treasurenet for access to this valuable knowledge.

Fortunately, the subject of authenticity was brought up originally by the poster himself in his first thread; and I would assume, as it is in our courts of law, once a subject has been opened for debate it is not only fair, but responsible to discuss varying opinions for the benefit of everyone. That seems to be consistent with the rules?

If that's not the case then we are left with the following in such situations: (which might be cause to see if there is a means where treasurenet can both maintain the rules, and provide some avenue where varying opinion backed by proven fact can be voiced

1) Instances where potentially tens of thousand of dollars worth of artifacts are displayed on a public forum as genuine.
2) Where the only input a poster may leave would be either to not respond, or to reinforce through lack of knowledge that they were genuine.
3) Where knowledgeable members have no means to educate unsuspecting collectors, who in fact are the majority here.

Such a situation leaves treasurenet in the postion of not remaining neutral, but actually potentially in some cases promoting the notion some non-genuine relics are in fact genuine, to the detriment of us all.

Maybe in the future Treasurenet can get around this problem by creating another forum, such as what we have in the "what is it", "what's it worth" etc, but have this one called "fakes, counterfeits, and reproductions". (I've always wondered why there wasn't such a forum).

It would provide an opportunity to not only construct what would surely be a vast resource of knowledge; but could also be a means to post generic counterfeits and reproductions in harmony with what might appear on this or other threads, and do so without attacking anyone's credibility, and without directly involving the thread which might be in question.

 

[jeff of pa]

Man I wish I could have dug these. My wifes uncle found these in a shoebox in the attic. His father dug these in Kinston N. C. a long time ago. Theres no question for me that they are real. What should I do and how do I authenticate them? These are just a few of the relics. I have a lot more

No Question on authenticity,

Question is on How to have them Officially authenticated.

I Won't Mention Who the First
person to make "Accusations" Was
I'm sure he Knows.

 

[CRUSADER]

Man I wish I could have dug these. My wifes uncle found these in a shoebox in the attic. His father dug these in Kinston N. C. a long time ago. Theres no question for me that they are real. What should I do and how do I authenticate them? These are just a few of the relics. I have a lot more

No Question on authenticity,

Question is on How to have them Officially authenticated.

I Won't Mention Who the First
person to make "Accusations" Was
I'm sure he Knows.

The poster has had some great advice about how & where to get these authenticated. ie email any of the fore-mentioned dealers. Whatever people think about the IDing from a photo, I can tell you IDs can be done this way & this can be cleared up in a matter of hours.

I therefore ask the poster to clear this up quickly so we can all learn before it gets out of control.

 

[RKinOI]

Ok JOPA, The only reason I was sure they were real is because of where they came from. These have been stored in an attic since 1973. I had no reason to think that someone was working on a scam 36 years ago. Thats what made me sure they were real. Why would Paw Paw do this? As for me, I have no knowledge of civil war relics accept for a few bullets and buttons. All I was asking was how do I go about checking on them. I didn't mean to start such a big controversy. RK

 

[CRUSADER]

Ok JOPA, The only reason I was sure they were real is because of where they came from. These have been stored in an attic since 1973. I had no reason to think that someone was working on a scam 36 years ago. Thats what made me sure they were real. Why would Paw Paw do this? As for me, I have no knowledge of civil war relics accept for a few bullets and buttons. All I was asking was how do I go about checking on them. I didn't mean to start such a big controversy. RK

I think we all know that, I never thought you were up to no good. Hopefully there is enough info in this thread to point the owner in the right direction (if they want to go in the right direction that is).
Personally if the experts say what we expect, I do back those that want them marked or trashed. These are damaging to the honest collector & the market in these items.

Still a great & in some ways amusing post

 

[BioProfessor]

Hi RKinOI,

I have been following and posting to this thread. I don't think there was ever any intention on your part to be part of a scam. I think that just popped up in the thread and it really wasn't fair for anybody to direct that towards you. It was just the way the thread evolved and the people having a "discussion" really between themselves and not contributing to the purpose of the thread - IMOHO.

What I think may have happened is that someone got interested in collecting these things and purchased them, enjoyed them, but after a bit they wound up being stored. Much like a lot of stuff people collect. As many family stories go, this one got the part about his digging them added at some point and it may have just been an assumption by the person who told the story. Happens all the time. If you watch the Antiques Roadshow, you hear over and over. The family story is a really good one and they are sure it is true but it falls apart when the person doing the appraisal sees what they have. So family stories are just that. Stories. Sometimes they are accurate and sometimes they get embellished or have details added to them. Just the way people, families, and stories go.

So I don't think there is any general belief by the people involved in this thread they you are in any way doing anything that can be called a scam. You are simply repeating the family story and asking for help getting them authenticated. Pure and simple.

I hope you are OK with all this. You just got sucked into this by some posters "theorizing' about things not in evidence.

Just my 2 cents.

Daryl

 

[RKinOI]

Thank you. RK

 

[BuckleBoy]

Maybe in the future Treasurenet can get around this problem by creating another forum, such as what we have in the "what is it", "what's it worth" etc, but have this one called "fakes, counterfeits, and reproductions". (I've always wondered why there wasn't such a forum).

It would provide an opportunity to not only construct what would surely be a vast resource of knowledge; but could also be a means to post generic counterfeits and reproductions in harmony with what might appear on this or other threads, and do so without attacking anyone's credibility, and without directly involving the thread which might be in question.

This is an excellent idea, but I have a doubt that TreasureNet would be swift to "bite" at this great idea.

Independent members have already taken up some of the slack. There are pages of reproduction buckles on some of the independent web businesses on the net.

Tnet member BigCypresshunter has started a database of reproduction spanish cobs, although that collection of photos of his is not posted anywhere here--which may be due to copyright issues.


This EXACT situation we are now in with this thread is the reason why I REFUSED earlier to participate in any discussion about the buckles' authenticity.


I am reading, but I will not be henceforth replying. For better or worse, this is not a democracy on TreasureNet.

 

[jeff of pa]

Ok JOPA, The only reason I was sure they were real is because of where they came from. These have been stored in an attic since 1973. I had no reason to think that someone was working on a scam 36 years ago. Thats what made me sure they were real. Why would Paw Paw do this? As for me, I have no knowledge of civil war relics accept for a few bullets and buttons. All I was asking was how do I go about checking on them. I didn't mean to start such a big controversy. RK

Dosn't Mean he was working on a Scam.

Just Means He Had an Excellent
Collection of Reproductions,
Probably worth a Nice amount.

(Are Reenactors working on a scam ?)

IF they are not authentic.

 

[jeff of pa]

Hi RKinOI,

I have been following and posting to this thread. I don't think there was ever any intention on your part to be part of a scam. I think that just popped up in the thread and it really wasn't fair for anybody to direct that towards you. It was just the way the thread evolved and the people having a "discussion" really between themselves and not contributing to the purpose of the thread - IMOHO.

What I think may have happened is that someone got interested in collecting these things and purchased them, enjoyed them, but after a bit they wound up being stored. Much like a lot of stuff people collect. As many family stories go, this one got the part about his digging them added at some point and it may have just been an assumption by the person who told the story. Happens all the time. If you watch the Antiques Roadshow, you hear over and over. The family story is a really good one and they are sure it is true but it falls apart when the person doing the appraisal sees what they have. So family stories are just that. Stories. Sometimes they are accurate and sometimes they get embellished or have details added to them. Just the way people, families, and stories go.

So I don't think there is any general belief by the people involved in this thread they you are in any way doing anything that can be called a scam. You are simply repeating the family story and asking for help getting them authenticated. Pure and simple.

I hope you are OK with all this. You just got sucked into this by some posters "theorizing' about things not in evidence.

Just my 2 cents.

Daryl

Yep. This is the Reason for the Real/Fake?
Rule.
There is always Someone who Jumps to Conclusions,
and drags others into jumping in
with their accusations.

I Would Support a Real/Fake? Thread
IF those who see a Scam around every
corner Stayed out of it.

 

[Bill Battle]

Hi RKinOI,

I have been following and posting to this thread. I don't think there was ever any intention on your part to be part of a scam. I think that just popped up in the thread and it really wasn't fair for anybody to direct that towards you. It was just the way the thread evolved and the people having a "discussion" really between themselves and not contributing to the purpose of the thread - IMOHO.

What I think may have happened is that someone got interested in collecting these things and purchased them, enjoyed them, but after a bit they wound up being stored. Much like a lot of stuff people collect. As many family stories go, this one got the part about his digging them added at some point and it may have just been an assumption by the person who told the story. Happens all the time. If you watch the Antiques Roadshow, you hear over and over. The family story is a really good one and they are sure it is true but it falls apart when the person doing the appraisal sees what they have. So family stories are just that. Stories. Sometimes they are accurate and sometimes they get embellished or have details added to them. Just the way people, families, and stories go.

So I don't think there is any general belief by the people involved in this thread they you are in any way doing anything that can be called a scam. You are simply repeating the family story and asking for help getting them authenticated. Pure and simple.

I hope you are OK with all this. You just got sucked into this by some posters "theorizing' about things not in evidence.

Just my 2 cents.

Daryl

Yep. This is the Reason for the Real/Fake?
Rule.
There is always Someone who Jumps to Conclusions,
and drags others into jumping in
with their accusations.

I Would Support a Real/Fake? Thread
IF those who see a Scam around every
corner Stayed out of it.

I'm a newbie here and it's not my place to question your rules (but I might anyway in a nice way), but if I dug an item, say a Confederate coin, and say I posted it on this forum. Not knowing that these things were produced extensively in the sixties as tourist items, I might think I had the real deal. After all, it had been in the ground for 50 years and had garnered quite a nice patina. Now personally, I would consider it a disservice to me if half the forum knew the thing wasn't genuine, but didn't tell me because it is against the rules. Yes, I know, forum members could contact me privately, but that leaves the other half of the forum that didn't know any better believing that the item is the real deal. And isn't that the purpose of a forum like this, education (besides looking at sweet finds)? Discussing an item's attributes in a constructive, and civil, manner would seem a positive thing to me, and certainly wouldn't arouse my sensitivities in the least if my item was questioned. I saw a gold California coin being discussed in another thread in such a constructive manner, and learned quite a lot from it. JMO

 

[RKinOI]

Exactly, Reinactors are not working a scam so why would they wear buckles that have been tampered with to look old?