Is the 1909 S VDB a BANNER Worthy Recovery?

[Kurios1]

Is the 1909 S VDB Lincoln Cent a BANNER Worthy Recovery?

Hello T-netters. This is an honest question I would like an answer to. Recently a T-net member recovered a 1909 S VDB Lincoln Cent in very fine condition and posted the find on our Today's Finds forum. It got rave commentary and over twenty T-net members stated in their comments it was a BANNER worthy recovery. I don't know how many actually voted for the 1909 S VDB to be considered for the BANNER but, I have to believe quite a few did. I know I did. As the days went by after the HOLY GRAIL of Lincoln Cents was posted I noticed it never made it to the BANNER. I was kind of surprised and a bit perplexed as to why it never made it to the BANNER.

I guess my question is why didn't this recovered 1909 S VDB in fine condition make it to the BANNER? I guess another question is to the members of T-net. Do you believe the 1909 S VDB if recovered in fine or ANY condition is a BANNER worthy find? I am NOT trying to stir up a controversy but, would like to get an answer to this and some particular details as to why such a rare find may not be deemed BANNER worthy. The original poster of this find seems to have gone silent. I tried twice to contact them through PM's and they have not returned my messages. I hope they weren't offended at feeling slighted by not having their incredible find recognized as BANNER worthy. As a fellow treasure hunter who digs 99% garbage for the occasional "good" find I can certainly appreciate feeling overlooked if I actually did find something BANNER worthy to NOT make it for some unknown reason.

Thanks for any who can bring some clarification or experienced commentary to this question and post. Kurios1

 

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[Argentium]

A good question ! I am reminded of the Socratic dialogues because prior to engaging the discussion Socraties was careful to define terms. I would in this inquiry want to have clarity around the term " rare" . The original mintage if memory serves, is 400,000 or under half a million anyway - so in terms of mint numbers of that era - really low ! When you consider that this coin was a commemorative of the centenial of Abraham Lincoln's birth , clearly many of these 1st year issues would have been put away by coin collectors and Lincoln fans alike - resulting in a much smaller population of the 1909-S, VDB being lost and available to the detectorists among us . So the question is , of the original mintage - how many are still out there in collections ,and how many are lost in the ground awaiting our uncovering ? We can only know of a surviving population if they have been certified (PCGS ,NGC etc.) Based just on what we can know in this discussion , I personally believe this is Banner coinage !

 

[smokeythecat]

I really don't know. I know they are looking for significant items for the banners. I dug a gold coin a few years back that didn't make it, never did figure out why.

 

[trdking]

I believe that somewhere there exists a Magic 8 ball that determines the fate of Banner. It is not for us to question the mighty power of the magic 8 ball. It reveals itself and makes the banner call. Really, If I were posting to get myself up to the banner I believe I would have personal issues, as I would think that anyone slighted because something they had did not make the banner. I voted the coin for Banner and it didn't make it. (It still could as the site is pretty much run by volunteers) That is the last I thought of it. If everything made the banner, this site would be called Bannernet!

 

[Kurios1]

A good question ! I am reminded of the Socratic dialogues because prior to engaging the discussion Socraties was careful to define terms. I would in this inquiry want to have clarity around the terms "rare"

I am NO philosopher by any stretch of the imagination but, as far as the coin in question it's mintage was 484,000 coins according to my Redbook. It rates a handsome price at auctions. I suppose the chances of recovering a 1909 S VDB Lincoln Cent are equivalent to winning the Power Ball Lottery. Just guessing of course. Thanks for your time mate.

 

[smokeythecat]

Magic 8 ball or pin the tail on the donkey. Either would work. Or an el-if-I-know.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I blame the Russians.

 

[Kurios1]

I blame the Russians.

"DAMN those RUSSIAN HACKERS!!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Thanks for any who can bring some clarification or experienced commentary to this question and post. Kurios1

Here's why: Putting aside the # of voters aspect (because maybe it simply didn't get enough votes): If it's strictly a question of the ultimate authority/decision of the mod's, then here's why: Because they have to be VERY CAREFUL and picky about which items will make it up there. Because otherwise, there will eventually be grade inflation. The category of "banner" (by definition) has to be reserved for the most difficult or valuable finds.

That's NOT to say that an '09s vdb isn't "difficult" or "valuable". But think of it: from a strictly value-point of view, I'll bet that there is no doubt coins on today's finds section almost daily that would be of similar value. Eg.: seateds that grade high, or other various key dates, etc.... Yes, the '09s vdb just happens to be a more popular-lore one, but .... so too are other coins with equal values perpetually showing up, that also don't get banner.

Is it sometimes subjective (some gold coins have even failed to make it) ? Sure. It will never be a perfect system. But in order for the prestige to remain, then it necessitates over-picky-ness. Lest there be grade-inflation.

 

[trdking]

Here's why: Putting aside the # of voters aspect (because maybe it simply didn't get enough votes): If it's strictly a question of the ultimate authority/decision of the mod's, then here's why: Because they have to be VERY CAREFUL and picky about which items will make it up there. Because otherwise, there will eventually be grade inflation. The category of "banner" (by definition) has to be reserved for the most difficult or valuable finds.

That's NOT to say that an '09s vdb isn't "difficult" or "valuable". But think of it: from a strictly value-point of view, I'll bet that there is no doubt coins on today's finds section almost daily that would be of similar value. Eg.: seateds that grade high, or other various key dates, etc.... Yes, the '09s vdb just happens to be a more popular-lore one, but .... so too are other coins with equal values perpetually showing up, that also don't get banner.

Is it sometimes subjective (some gold coins have even failed to make it) ? Sure. It will never be a perfect system. But in order for the prestige to remain, then it necessitates over-picky-ness. Lest there be grade-inflation.

I would imagine there is the survivability. The 09s vdb is barely 100 years old and compared to a pine tree, well big difference

 

[Dave Rishar]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/438336-banners-how-they-work.html

Maybe useful, maybe not.

 

[Xraywolf]

You said BANNER 10 times, guess you made your point [whatever it is]

 

[CASPER-2]

Here's why: Putting aside the # of voters aspect (because maybe it simply didn't get enough votes): If it's strictly a question of the ultimate authority/decision of the mod's, then here's why: Because they have to be VERY CAREFUL and picky about which items will make it up there. Because otherwise, there will eventually be grade inflation. The category of "banner" (by definition) has to be reserved for the most difficult or valuable finds.

That's NOT to say that an '09s vdb isn't "difficult" or "valuable". But think of it: from a strictly value-point of view, I'll bet that there is no doubt coins on today's finds section almost daily that would be of similar value. Eg.: seateds that grade high, or other various key dates, etc.... Yes, the '09s vdb just happens to be a more popular-lore one, but .... so too are other coins with equal values perpetually showing up, that also don't get banner.

Is it sometimes subjective (some gold coins have even failed to make it) ? Sure. It will never be a perfect system. But in order for the prestige to remain, then it necessitates over-picky-ness. Lest there be grade-inflation.

I was asked if I wanted one of my finds on the Banner by the powers that be - I guess I got quite a bit of votes I guess - it was neither rare - nor valuable - just kind of cool
I told them - I did not feel it was banner worthy and told them no

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good inputs to this thread.

If too many things started making banner, then the psychology would be, that your eyes would eventually stop scanning the banner for updates. I know, for example, that while I don't often read the "today's find" section, yet I DO make notice when something new makes banner. So if "something new" were appearing on banner several times per week, then It probably would not subconsciously have that draw effect. Ie.: grade inflation.

 

[1320]

When I viewed the original thread regarding the penny, I had a gut feeling that it wouldn't make it. The story was lame, the images weren't very good and as the thread moved along, there seemed to be some excessive argument for it to be on top. I can't image that statements like "I can't believe this hasn't made banner yet" help either. The thread also received soooo many unnecessary "bumps".

For what it's worth, there have been 4 1909 S VDB's over the years that didn't make the banner, could be more that I'm not recalling at the moment.....

 

[1320]

From the rule book......."Members campaigning for votes for themselves or others ruins threads. Do Not Do IT!"

 

[pepperj]

To be-or not to be-that is the question.

Some fly up there before the first page of congrats is finished, while others drag on for days before going up, while others scream to go up and never do. It's almost seems at times what appeals to a person (non-detectorist) might like to look at to generate views. Some its a given, a no brainer, and the selection process is a to many.

 

[AlienLifeForm]

Not sure why it didn't make it - I voted too. Note in a bottle, while interesting, made it. Exactly how it works I do not know, but it is not solely based on votes.

 

[trdking]

I blame the Russians.

Its not the Russians this week \, its the NFL's fault!

 

[Wampum]

From the rule book......."Members campaigning for votes for themselves or others ruins threads. Do Not Do IT!"

I am not sure if you think that the OP of this thread was campaining or not but to me it just seems like he is wondering and asking why. I too wondered this and thought it was banner worthy.

As I said in my post in that thread something along the lines of any key date of any coin to me is banner worthy. The logical reason as to why it wasn't made banner was because not enough votes and I hope that is the actual reason. I do find it unfortunate that people consider age as a big factor when rarity is really the factor and this coin is more rare than a lot of junk silver and gold coins. If age were the largest factor then barely any west coast posts would be banner and our European members would have most of the banners. I think that people just have a hard time voting for a coin with the same image that they can find in their pocket change...