Insanity!!!!!

pippinwhitepaws said:
Erosion & Sedimentation
Click to expand...


From the article:
Erosion and sedimentation affect surface water and wetlands more than any other media. Erosion can adversely affect soil organisms, vegetation, and revegetation efforts because it results in the movement of soil, including topsoil and nutrients, from one location to another.

Funny thing is, is that erosion is a very natural and necessary process. But then again considering your considering the absolute close minded approach you take on many things, it is no surprise that you missed this one. Geologists quantify, characterize sediment carried by Mississippi flood to Louisiana's wetlands
 

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see...that is not Arizona...I thought we were addressing desert/basin/range/mountain events...yes erosion is a natural event...sometimes.
not closed minded...just a lot of information to overcome if you wish to convince me mining has no effect on the environment.
 

pippinwhitepaws said:
yes...EPA did a study way back when they first began that behavior...and found every watershed in Arizona polluted by heavy metals...natural occurrence...
Click to expand...

I'd like a link to that study if you can find it.

So if heavy metal contamination of waterways here was found to be a natural occurrance, then how can mining be blamed for the contamination? The levels? That can be easily explained by flood events moving massive amounts of sediment.
 

pippinwhitepaws said:
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/water/az1503.pdf


EPA is shut down...can't get to that item just yet..i will share it when I find it.
Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind when reading a lot of the reports and studies is the fact that there is no money in telling the truth, but ALOT of money in doom and gloom.

Look at the report you linked. Just a few excerpts. When you have an axe to grind and a penchant for dishonesty, you can twist things to your own agenda.
----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- ---------------------- ----------------------------------------- ---------------------- ----- Geologic forces have influenced the quality of water held within Arizona aquifers. The groundwater basins in the geologic past included river drainage systems that could not reach the sea, generating large inland lakes—such as the Great Salt Lake in Utah—that concentrated the salts as water evaporated. Large deposits of salt1 are common across the state. These natural deposits are often associated with elevated groundwater concentrations of sodium, chloride, calcium, magnesium, sulfates, and carbonates .

AZ1503
November, 2009​
Kristine Uhlman, Channah Rock, Janick Artiola​
Three significant geologic sources of arsenic are found in Arizona, and because of this elevated concentrations of arsenic occur in groundwater across the state. Regions of granite bedrock with valuable gold ore often contain
elevated concentrations of arsenic.

In addition, aquifers consisting of alluvium eroded from granite bedrock may also contain arsenic.

The Colorado Plateau of northern Arizona and southern Utah consists of layers of ancient sedimentary rock that can be seen exposed in the cliffs of the Grand Canyon. Many water supply wells on the Colorado Plateau tap these formations. Arsenic, various metals, and uranium were deposited and concentrated within these sediments (Kenny, 2003). Wells constructed within the Supai Sandstone in the Colorado Plateau have elevated levels of dissolved arsenic in the groundwater, as well as uranium and other radioactive elements.
The arsenic-rich Supai Sandstone formation was eroded and re-deposited over the past 2 to 5 million years into the Verde Alluvium Formation, which now forms the aquifer of the Big Chino and Verde Valley.


A neighborhood of recently installed private domestic wells in a new subdivision in New York was tested for contaminants after concern was expressed about the proximity of a nearby landfill. All wells failed water quality testing because a dissolved industrial solvent was found. Since the solvent is also a common contaminant associated with landfills, an extensive investigation was conducted to tie the pollution to the landfill, but no link could be found. The source of water contamination was discovered to be the solvent used to glue the plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe used to construct the wells and plumbing.
----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- ---------------------- ----------------------------------------- ---------------------- ----------------------------------------- --------------------------------

I really like the last one. It is always someone else's fault. Tried to blame something they don' t agree with in order to get rid of it. Yet the "problem" was found "close to home". Just one more reason to pony up for copper pipe and lead free solder.

By the way, I've met Dr. Channa Rock on multiple occasions. Very smart women. Did you know she found out the Bovine E. Coli test used to cost farmers and ranchers millions (and put some out of business) was throwing false positives?


 

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pippinwhitepaws said:
see...that is not Arizona...I thought we were addressing desert/basin/range/mountain events...yes erosion is a natural event...sometimes.
not closed minded...just a lot of information to overcome if you wish to convince me mining has no effect on the environment.
Click to expand...

The premise is the same. So how it applies to Arizona is as follows:

Due to the fact that any and all rivers and washes in Arizona are subject to flash floods, any and all riparian areas are subject to be destroyed and reformed at will. Look at my youtube channel and you'll see exactly what I am talking about.

Most riparian areas are temporary at best here in AZ. One flood event here can cause enough damage to take decades to recover. I have the flood history of the San Francisco River here and to put it lightly, I can understand why the Frisco is in the shape it I in. And contrary to popular belief, mining and recreation didn't cause this.
 

so...the difference in naturally occurring heavy metal deposits, and those sites disturbed by mining activities....
naturally{ no pun} heavy metals follow gravity, just like gold....they continue down as far as possible...and settle there for the duration, under layers of sediment, protected from water movement.....effect? harm to few
gold miners, disturb these deposits...the heavy metals are released{normally} as a by product...what gold miner wants that other stuff?
these heavy metals are released into the water cource...and while the metals naturally seek the lowest point...they are deposited upon the layers of sediment, available to poison flora and fauna...until they once again find the lowest point on earth.

is that clear and unbiased?
 

pippinwhitepaws said:
so...the difference in naturally occurring heavy metal deposits, and those sites disturbed by mining activities....
naturally{ no pun} heavy metals follow gravity, just like gold....they continue down as far as possible...and settle there for the duration, under layers of sediment, protected from water movement.....effect? harm to few
gold miners, disturb these deposits...the heavy metals are released{normally} as a by product...what gold miner wants that other stuff?
these heavy metals are released into the water cource...and while the metals naturally seek the lowest point...they are deposited upon the layers of sediment, available to poison flora and fauna...until they once again find the lowest point on earth.

is that clear and unbiased?
Click to expand...

No it is not. During high flow events, the river bottoms can be churned up by action of the water. There is a pretty good explanation of stream scour here. Wildlife and Habitat | Ecosystems | Environmental Review Toolkit | FHWA
 

pippinwhitepaws said:
yes, during sporadic events...not normal yearly flows...
Click to expand...

Define normal.

For the metrically challenged:

a 13 m3/sec flow equals about 465 cfs.

a 4 ft3 piece of granite weighs about 5600 lbs.

a 465 cfs flow can EASILY be exceeded at anytime here in AZ.

here's a flow chart of the Frisco here since Oct. 1920.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/dv/?...9444500&begin_date=19201015&end_date=20131015

High flows here are anything but sporadic. Happens every year during spring thaw in the high country and during monsoon season.

Had enough yet?
 

The biggest problem in all of this, and the biggest reason the eco's are losing this fight, is the fact that a mountain can be made out of a mole hill when one specific part of a problem is discussed. But when the whole picture is looked at, that so called problem turns out to be such a small issue that it doesn't even register on the radar.

Here's a good case in point. The eco's blame the downfall of the loach minnow on me driving my Jeep through the river crossings here. Fat chance. As per the loach minnow recovery plan, the loach do just fine in moderately impacted habitat AS LONG AS there are no invasive species present, hence my first post.

In 1904, Chamberlain declared the Frisco devoid of any and all life, yet after another 100 years of mining, logging, recreation access, ranching, grazing, and a whole host of other activities, the loach is still here. At least for now, until the crayfish and flatheads eat them all up.
 

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