Informal Poll...Arrested or cited for metal detecting.

[cudamark]

I doubt you can find a hobby where you will be loved by EVERYONE. If being hassled worries you, you're probably right....find another hobby. I can almost guarantee that if you detect long enough, someone will give you a ration.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

It isn't hard, ask permission for private property, if the local parks don't have a sign saying no detecting hunt them. Stay out of national parks and national seashores.... You can look up local laws on computer using google.

No different than fishing...

 

[aamkajutsu]

Here is what I've found so far for Washington State... hopefully someone will correct me if I'm incorrect.

1. No digging in Federal or National Parks or in any park or location that has or may have any historical value.
2. No digging in any State Park except those specifically allowed by the State of Washington; and then only in the area they designate.
3. Regarding areas under the jurisdiction of a city, check local ordinances. (one city north of me apparently does not allow metal detecting anywhere within city limits).
4. Private property... ask permission and hope for the best.

Question: Regarding the "1906 American Antiquities Act": Is it safe to use the dictionary definition of "antiquity" or is there some legal definition I should know about? Antiquity meaning: the ancient past, especially the period before the Middle Ages ... middle ages being In European history, the Middle Ages, or Medieval period, lasted from the 5th to the 15th century.

In other words, if I'm digging for coins and relics that are not older than the "middle ages" are they legal to keep?

If "all" of those areas are off base then what's left?

Please advise,
Phil

 

[SeabeeRon]

Welcome to the Forum and the Hobby Phil! I am afraid you are "over thinking" this a bit. Treasure Hunter's advice above is right on. Just go out and have fun!! Good luck!

 

[pennyfarmer]

The real troubles are not common. Most of the time you are just moved along unless it is a blatant violation.

Go with friends so that when you go to jail you know someone there. 😁

 

[aamkajutsu]

The real troubles are not common. Most of the time you are just moved along unless it is a blatant violation.

Go with friends so that when you go to jail you know someone there. ��

LOL! If I go with my friends then I won't have anybody to bail me out!! LOL! ... actually I'm more of a loner when it comes to this sort of thing. I've ID'd some pretty nice ghost towns that I think would be worth exploring... not too far from me. Unfortunately the State has claimed them and turned them into State Parks so they are off limits.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ron is right. You're over-thinking this. Afterall, Ron's only been arrested 3 times! (JUST KIDDING! haha).

Ok, to answer your questions: If you're really all that skittish about state and national parks, ok, fine: just avoid those singular types. That still leave a LOT of public real estate, that doesn't happen to be state or federal. And btw: don't confuse something you read about "state" or "federal" to mean ALL state land or ALL federal land. Instead it only means state PARKS . Not all state land is state park land. And not all federal land is national park land. Other types federal land, like blm or nfs don't have such rules.

But getting down to your question about city and county: Do not make the mistake of thinking that "check local ordinances" means to go ask a pencil pusher desk clerk: "Can I detect?". It's only saying to look it up for oneself. And in my humble opinion , you're over-thinking it. I detect any city or county park I come to as I travel, and don't fret myself about such things. I mean, barring obvious sensitive monuments, or something with a posted sign, it's usually not an issue. Provided you're not being a nuisance waltzing over beach blankets, crashing an archie convention, etc.... If someone has an issue, they're welcome to alert you. Just go at low traffic times and avoid such-types-as might get their panties in a wad. Sort of like nose-picking: not illegal, but you choose correct times, so as not to offend persons.

As for the "antiquity" thing, well I have yet to hear of anybody on county or city levels thinking their land falls under ARPA or antiquities things. So I assume you're speaking of state or fed. If so, the technical answer is probably 50 or 100 yrs. And even THEN it's arguable that coins are exempt from that (if not found in an "archaeological context"). But put that whole entire debate aside for one moment and ask yourself: Is anyone out there in the forest, poised to jump out from behind a bush, with a calculator, to do the math on the ages of each coin you find ? I think you're way over-thinking this.

 

[Rustynailsandscrews]

I've been metal detecting since the mid seventies, I have heard stories of people getting arrested or cited for detecting but have never talked to anyone who actually has. I would like to ask this question: Have you ever been arrested or cited for metal detecting? Not warned or kicked out of a park by employees but actually arrested and or cited, first hand information only please. I would venture to say it will be very few or none at all.I might also add that I'm a retired officer and never observed anyone get cited or arrested in the three different departments that I worked at. So anyone?

Nope, never. The cops where I am have bigger fish to fry. If your minding your own business and cutting nice plugs the cops here could care less about an old guy metal detecting.
Now, if your out drinking beer and being a yahoo with a 4 ft. shovel digging big holes, that might get some attention.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Nope, never. The cops where I am have bigger fish to fry. If your minding your own business and cutting nice plugs the cops here could care less about an old guy metal detecting.
Now, if your out drinking beer and being a yahoo with a 4 ft. shovel digging big holes, that might get some attention.

Rusty, you are going by the "does anyone really care" test of this, versus the "what will the answer be if I go to city hall and ask" test of this. And I totally agree with you. If there are places where you're likely to be ignored, then ... gee.... what's there to ask about ? By asking it only puts it on someone's lap as something they must think "long & hard about the implication of their giving you a yes". When in fact, perhaps it never even would have crossed that individual's mind before.

Hence yes: I am a big fan of the "does anyone really care?" test.

 

[justplainjoe]

I'm new to the hobby but I suggest you look at the Texas Association web site. It's been a year but when I did there was a story regarding two guys detecting an area near Austin and apparently a Park Ranger arrested or ticketed them and they went to Federal Court. Read the story. It is getting tough out there It is my understanding that they can confiscate your car and any equipment if you are arrested on Federal Park property. I also read somewhere that local police departments are trying to get in on the confiscation bonanza.

Justplainjoe

 

[cudamark]

I'm new to the hobby but I suggest you look at the Texas Association web site. It's been a year but when I did there was a story regarding two guys detecting an area near Austin and apparently a Park Ranger arrested or ticketed them and they went to Federal Court. Read the story. It is getting tough out there It is my understanding that they can confiscate your car and any equipment if you are arrested on Federal Park property. I also read somewhere that local police departments are trying to get in on the confiscation bonanza.

Justplainjoe

Welcome to Tnet! The rules regarding Federal Park land are posted, so, if you ignore them, you do so at your own risk. No LEO is going to arrest someone if there are no clear laws being violated. They open themselves up to false arrest and violation of civil rights lawsuits. It's the vague, "don't disturb, alter, deface, etc" clauses in the code that we can get caught up in if you don't use your head. If you use good recovery techniques and are polite when approached you're extremely unlikely to have any problems with tickets or arrest.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'm new to the hobby but I suggest you look at the Texas Association web site. It's been a year but when I did there was a story regarding two guys detecting an area near Austin and apparently a Park Ranger arrested or ticketed them and they went to Federal Court. Read the story. It is getting tough out there It is my understanding that they can confiscate your car and any equipment if you are arrested on Federal Park property. I also read somewhere that local police departments are trying to get in on the confiscation bonanza.

Justplainjoe

Just-plain-joe: Your story is akin to reading bloody stories of shark attacks. Or airline 747 crashes, etc... And then guess what? You worry about shark attacks, wonder if you'll die if you fly, etc.... When truth-be-told, shark attacks and dying by airline crash are extremely low odds. People swim in the ocean all the time and don't get eaten by sharks.

So to apply that to md'ing: Can an over-zealous cop arrest you for md'ing in an innocuous sand box ? I suppose. Might you get roughed up and thrown in jail for nothing but a tail-light out on your car? It's possible. But don't we all look at such things as "flukes", not "norms" ? I mean you wouldn't be afraid to drive after reading of such a tail-light incident, would you ?

Anytime you read any story of arrests, confiscations, jail, fines, etc..., it's a) fluke rare stories to begin with, and b) 99% of the time going to be someone night sneaking obvious historic sites. Or someone who couldn't take a warning, or someone snooping on obvious historic sensitive monuments where they lacked a little common sense. And if you find something outside those explanations, they're strictly flukes, like shark attack stories.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Evidence of arrests for having a metal detector on restricted Federal Lands isn't that hard to come by. The Feds keep records.

Having a metal detector in a National Recreation Area or National Park is illegal. Notice I didn't say metal detecting or digging. The possession of a metal detector withing the confines of a passenger compartment of a car is enough to get you arrested or cited.

I'm not sure your campaign to quell others fears about detecting is having a beneficial effect. To put it directly there are many many places you can legally detect. Besides some government owned property there is always the possibility of obtaining permission to detect private lands.

That being said the lack of a sign or a notice or a law or a regulation that that you know about does not amount to a legal spot to detect either public or private lands. Why that theory keeps surfacing here is a valid question to be explored at another time.

The government is under no legal obligation to put you on notice of a particular plot of land's status. The fact that land is owned by the "public" is not an indication that you can metal detect there. Not knowing about something being illegal is not a legal defense. It's just ignorance of the law. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. All citizens are presumed to know the law in a republic. In a republic the laws are available to all who wish to see them.

Here's a Federal study of law enforcement on federally owned and managed public lands on and around Lake Mead National Recreation Area in Nevada/Arizona/Utah. On page three you can see there were 12 arrests or cites for metal detector possession during the two year study period. These metal detector possession violations are not unique to the Lake Mead area. The report is just a snapshot in time.

The report is a small PDF file you can download it here:

Lake Mead National Recreation Area Law Enforcement.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Having a metal detector in a National Recreation Area or National Park is illegal. Notice I didn't say metal detecting or digging. The possession of a metal detector withing the confines of a passenger compartment of a car is enough to get you arrested or cited......

the 12 incidents you go on to cite, in your link, just say "metal detector" . So those persons could have been using them. Not just "in the trunk of the car" type-of-thing. Do you know of anyone "arrested or cited" for merely having one in a trunk? Like if I'm not mistaken, there's roads that go right through some national parks, as throughfares to get beyond, in travel across the USA. So .... how does a person get from point A to point B ?

..... the lack of a sign or a notice or a law or a regulation that that you know about does not amount to a legal spot to detect either public .... lands.....

Huh ? The "lack of regulation" does indeed make it legal. If it's not prohibited, then... gee, it's not prohibited. And yes: it's possible to "know of" laws, rules, and regulations. No laws are "secret", and can't be looked up somewhere, somehow.

... Not knowing about something being illegal is not a legal defense. It's just ignorance of the law. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. All citizens are presumed to know the law in a republic. In a republic the laws are available to all who wish to see them.....

Emphasis mine. You are right. You look it up. If you see no prohibition, then .... ok.

And as for the links to actual tickets for detecting, I have not said that such stories/statistics don't exist. I grant you that they do. And so too can I come up with links and #'s for shark attacks, deaths by airline travel, etc... And I notice that the particular place-to-which you found (lake Mead) is one that could be easily looked up in 30 seconds, such that anyone could avoid being #13 there. You merely look up to see who administers that particular lake's beaches. Then with a few more clicks of the mouse your question is answered. So I do not construe such statistics to mean "therefore we should all go into every kiosk and city hall we come to , asking "can I metal detect". It merely means "look up the rules".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ahhh, a closer look at the Lake Mead link reveals something interesting: Notice that the listings there are "incidents". Not necessarily "arrests or citations " as you say in your post. They could be warnings & "scrams". NOT SAYING THAT MAKES IT RIGHT. But just saying ..... see how easily we can read-into such things ? I too missed it at first glance. I too just assumed "a ticket for md'ing".

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I have had detectors in car while in several NPs, I advised rangers on entering parks, I was told to remove battery, leave batteries out till I leave the park..(Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon) If I did any detecting while in the park I could be arrested.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Yes TH the prohibition is on possession of a working unit.

36 CFR 2.0 RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION 2.1 Preservation of natural, cultural and archeological resources.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the following is prohibited:

(7) Possessing or using a mineral or metal detector, magnetometer, side scan sonar, other metal detecting device, or subbottom profiler.
This paragraph does not apply to:
(i) A device broken down and stored or packed to prevent its use while in park areas.
(ii) Electronic equipment used primarily for the navigation and safe operation of boats and aircraft.
(iii) Mineral or metal detectors, magnetometers, or subbottom profilers used for authorized scientific, mining, or administrative activities.

The citation or arrest record will read:
Metal or mineral detector, possession or use. 36. 2.1(a)(7). NPS

36. 2.1(a)(7). NPS is listed as a forfeiture penalty. You could conceivably lose your metal detector.

 

[CyrusKain]

Very nice post here, and I'm glad to see it still floating above water for us new people.

I was a cop and then a detective for several years. I worked with Game Wardens and on public/military/federal property (concurrent jurisdiction) with valuable historic grounds, ruins, monuments, etc... In my time I never saw anyone detect in my jurisdiction, but I wouldn't have done anything to them, personally, unless they put up a fight or argued with me. I would have run them off, as it's my job, but unless they were just tearing the place up I'd have viewed it as rather harmless and not worth my time. The best thing you can do is lower your head, agree with the cop, and leave. Basically what everyone else is saying.

However, I *did* work with a Game Warden who was totally out of control. A man turned himself in for shooting the wrong goose one day on accident. He brought the goose, explained the mistake, and said he wanted to do things the right way. This is a guy, mind you, who could have just left the goose dead, taken the goose with him, or any number of other things and walked away. Instead, she CITED him. I couldn't believe it. I actually disputed this with her proclaiming that honest, interity-driven people like that are hard to find and that her actions just completely condemned his good will over an honest mistake. He's now more apt to lie than be honest. Fortunately the legal team did not pursue this charge as a misdemeanor and the guy came away with a 3 month hunting suspension from the grounds and a small fine. I, and 99% of the other poeple I worked with, would never have let it get that far; and I"d say it's the same for detecting.

Park rangers, though, are another story entirely. Avoid them like the bubonic plague. They're like mall cops, always searching for a reason to feel relevant... (no sibling rivalry there at all

Great posts, keep it up!