If its not a button what is it?

[RelicDude]

I found this at cellar hole I've been hunting in southern mass in the Berkshire region. At first I thought it was a button but it's not. It has has an r isignia on it could it be military? This item has got me stumped and curious to know how old it is the only object that could date the area is an 1847 large cent my friend found. Any help would be awesome-relic dude

 

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[Breezie]

If the OP will give the exact diameter of the head and the length of the shaft, that will determine if it is a shirt/cuff stud or not. Breezie

 

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[HutSiteDigger]

There's no need to down someone for giving their opinion. Hirsute digger has posted a lot on here. Now if someone is constantly referring to civil war ..then politely say something. But to be loud and rude about it is so immature. Jesus..relax. And your right ..we are better than that but same goes for putting someone down.

Hey thanks Bryan! It's all good though you should see what I have too put up with @ my work when dealing with the General public lol. This is just childs play compared too that!

But thanks Bryan if you ever head up here to Virginia let me know, I can take you too places where you can dig up CW artifacts and hut sites or take you up too Northern Neck of Virginia too a bunch of old colonial and 19th century houses,

I have met quite a few people on here too take them digging and they all end up finding something interesting! Always good too meet nice members here.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You know a lot more about collar buttons than I so Im glad you joined the discussion Breezie.

For what its worth, here is an initialed collar button. Mother of Pearl Collar Button by greatauntsyl on Etsy

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Breezie can you explain to me the purpose of the back collar button? http://www.american-vintage.com

 

[kuger]

Mr. Kuger now you know I do not mind having a friendly argument with you! If you read my first post I stated "It attached more of less too like a cuff-link, knapsack,leather strap or something in that nature (Military maybe?)! It appears very old maybe mid 19th-late 19th century? Can't say for sure if this is representing Riflemans or not but it sure looks like it could be."

That should make a reader question themselfs and not "leave thinking these are now confederate items" I tried too explain it in away were it is open minded if it is Military related or not.

Yes,absolutly........I was defending Rob,as you know I have stated the same thing he said before....i should have noted....I know nothing about this particular item...if you told me it is C.W. I would beive you.You actually have shown more promise in at least possibly providing the clues needed for this to be I.Ded....here

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This IS a guess on my part: could that be a cuff link used in French cuffs? (French cuffs have no buttons - they need cufflinks or studs to close them).

Just my 2 cents...

Anita

I dont think its a cufflink but speaking of cuffs, check this out. It has an initial. Late Victorian Items

 

[DoranHashemi]

Hey creskol, if you just wanna start another argument find a forum on politics where your energy will be most heard. Happy hunting!!!!!

 

[creskol]

Hey creskol, if you just wanna start another argument find a forum on politics where your energy will be most heard. Happy hunting!!!!!

With 92 measly posts, who the F--k are you to tell me anything Doran .. I will post whenever, wherever, however , and whatever I darn like feel like posting, and if you don't like it, tough chitsky!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

With 92 measly posts, who the F--k are you to tell me anything Doran .. I will post whenever, wherever, however , and whatever I darn like feel like posting, and if you don't like it, tough chitsky!

It's all good Creskol ! We can go pound a few beers then go out to the parking lot and have a fist fight then be friends 15 minutes later if u want! but seriously its all good you can come at me all day and night long as you dont steal my girlfriend or metal detector or my south carolina breast plate its okay Well I may let u steal my GF!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It's all good Creskol ! We can go pound a few beers then go out to the parking lot and have a fist fight then be friends 15 minutes later if u want! but seriously its all good you can come at me all day and night long as you dont steal my girlfriend or metal detector or my south carolina breast plate its okay Well I may let u steal my GF!

HA HA HuteSite
creskol / DoranHashemi - Google Fight : make this fight with Googlefight !

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

creskol / HutSiteDigger - Google Fight : make this fight with Googlefight !

 

[DoranHashemi]

Im just highlighting the point that these same type of rivet cuff-links have been found in Confederate sites (camps) or near Civil War battlefields and it seems know one can place these as being Civil War or not at least too my knowledge, like the one in the photo of the "A" cuff-link. I already stated I do not think this is Civil War but i am just trying too give RelicDude alittle insight on these!

With 92 measly posts, who the F--k are you to tell me anything Doran .. I will post whenever, wherever, however , and whatever I darn like feel like posting, and if you don't like it, tough chitsky!

So what's considered helpful posts?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This thread will be in lockdown by sunrise. The google fights are pretty cool huh?

 

[kuger]

This thread will be in lockdown by sunrise. The google fights are pretty cool huh?

dont let that happen.....this is a non-id'ed item...yall could go down in history.....we are better than that

 

[DoranHashemi]

I'm done. Peace love and happy digging to us all!!

 

[Breezie]

You know a lot more about collar buttons than I so Im glad you joined the discussion Breezie.

For what its worth, here is an initialed collar button. Mother of Pearl Collar Button by greatauntsyl on Etsy

First of all, the photos are fuzzy, so it's hard to to see how the shank is connected to the top and bottom, which is important in determining whether it's a stud or not. From what I can see, I don't think it is a shirt collar, shirt button hole, or sleeve stud. It has the appearance/shape of a rivet, but the monogram looks more 'high class' than something that would be on a pair of work overalls. For right now, until the OP gives us the exact dimensions, I'm going with a leather rivet that could have been on a leather pouch, bag, soft suitcase or the likes. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Do you have a macro lens?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

So what's considered helpful posts?

In case you didnt know, creskol has been extremely helpful IDing items on the WIT forum over several years. His advice to HutSiteDigger was also helpful and HutSiteDigger appears to be OK with it.

To tell you the truth, Im a bit taken back by the recent criticism in the WIT forum by some of the fairly new members that hardly ever have anything helpful to add other than criticism of those doing all the work.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Observations:
Insofar as I'm aware, no such object is shown in any book on civil war Military insignia or buttons or etc. If I'm incorrect about that, please let me know.

The one in the finders photo shows a Roman letter R on a rayed (starburst) background. No Confederate (nor yankee) Rifleman's emblem shows the letter R on a rayed background.

For those reasons, in combination, I am reasonably certain that the object is not a Military-issue object -- but instead, was manufactured strictly for Civilian usage.

Yes, it's not impossible that a soldier employed it on his uniform -- just as we know that they did so with Civilian flower-buttons and flatbuttons as a temporary replacement for a lost Military button.

At this point, I must shift (temporarily) into Creskol mode and say that it drives me up the wall to see so many flower-buttons and flatbuttons beng advertized on Ebay (and other websites) as being "Confederate buttons." And that's just mentioning only two such misrepresentations/"misdentifications." If it looks like it was made before 1920, it's a civil war relic. If it's old and round-ish and iron, by golly it must be a civil war Confederate cannonball. World War One crossed-sabers insignia and definitely-postwar Civilian horsegear - hey, I think they are Confederate Cavalry relics. Trust me that over the past several decades, Creskol and I have seen thousands of such claims. That number is not an exaggeration. So, I'm going to ask you to cut Creskol a lot of slack about his reaction to the suggestion that Relic Dude's "R" emblem is a civil war relic (which automatically means military in most people's mental interpretation). Trust me also that the longer y'all stay in this hobby, continuing to learn more and more about correctly identifying Historical artifacts, the more like Creskol (and me) you will become.

On that note... let me confess that one week ago I very nearly erupted like Creskol upon seeing a statement that an ironbacked civilian Fashion button in the What-Is-It forum is a Confederate Engineers button. Rigid self-control was required for me to reply with just: "if it really is a Confederate Engineers button (or any other version of Confederate or US military buttons), then please explain to us why it doesn't appear in ANY button-book which shows Confederate and/or US military buttons."

I guess it comes down to how many unproven suggestions you've seen in the past several days that a relic is a civil war one. I suspect that my fellow longtime civil war relic collector, digger, and ID-helper Creskol might have seen one too many such suggestions this week, and it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. So again I'm asking y'all to cut him a goodly amount of slack. His point was valid, after all, although not gently spoken.

Now, back to the "R" object. Precise size-measurements by RelicDude would be best. But until he provides them, here is my analysis of its size from comparison with the penny in one of the photos. A penny is .75-inch in diameter. The rayed-background "R" disc seems to be about .7" in diameter, the smaller disc on its back is about 3/8-inch in diameter, and the distance between them is about 1/4-inch. A cufflink typically has about twice as much space (a half-inch) between the discs, so I'm going to discount RelicDigger's object from being a cufflink. I also note that the disc on its back isn't flat like a typical rivet's back. Instead, it is gently "domed" (to prevent it from chafing whatever it rubs against) -- so for the time being, I'm going to go with it being a collar-stud... one with a Family-name Initial on it.

 

[Bryanhashemi]

With 92 measly posts, who the F--k are you to tell me anything Doran .. I will post whenever, wherever, however , and whatever I darn like feel like posting, and if you don't like it, tough chitsky!

I agree canonball. If that's how creskol talks on this forum..I can't imagine how he talks outside. He needs to calm down maybe take a break from all the problem solving and posting he's been doing. I have respect for you guys but sometimes one needs to relax. Just like you guys have pet peeves ..so do I. Much respect to all of you.