I think I may have found my first piece of gold?

[Casey13]

Good afternoon everyone.
While on lunch break today I went detecting out in the woods. Halfway through I hit a lower tone on the equinox and thought it was a bullet. Instead this pops out about 4 or 5 inches down and was shiny. I thought it was brass but after cleaning it, it feels heavier than brass. It looks like it was soldered onto another peace at one point.
Thanks for looking

 

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[CRUSADER]

I think it might be gold plated. which is still some gold.

 

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[Casey13]

I think it might be gold plated. which is still some gold.

That's what I was thinking too but when I took it to the jeweler and he looked at it and tested it, he said it was 10k. I was like huh lol

 

[JohnnyMac]

Good afternoon everyone.
While on lunch break today I went detecting out in the woods. Halfway through I hit a lower tone on the equinox and thought it was a bullet. Instead this pops out about 4 or 5 inches down and was shiny. I thought it was brass but after cleaning it, it feels heavier than brass. It looks like it was soldered onto another peace at one point.
Thanks for looking

Congrats

 

[CRUSADER]

That's what I was thinking too but when I took it to the jeweler and he looked at it and tested it, he said it was 10k. I was like huh lol

Depends how they tested it, it could still be 10K plated, if acid tested.

 

[Emil W]

I test precious metals very regularly, often on a weekly basis. Acid testing works great with modern jewelry since modern pieces are either sold gold or gold plated. So when testing the item using a stone and acid you either rub through the plating to the base metal, meaning the test would show it's not gold, or, if it does test as gold, you can make the assumption that since you would have rubbed through the plating had there been any, it must be sold gold. Modern pieces are virtually never gold-filled. The process is too time consuming (expensive) today to make it worthwhile.

This is not the case at all with vintage or antique pieces, which yours certainly is. These would either be sold gold or gold-filled, almost never plated--and that's the problem. Gold-filled has a much thicker layer of sold gold--not plating--making it impossible to know if it's sold gold unless you rub deep enough to go all the way though the gold layer, often ruining the piece in the process.

In almost all cases (except when the piece has so much wear that the gold is already much thinner than originally) you need to either cut a notch in the item and acid-test the core directly on the piece, or rub it on the test stone enough to go very deep beyond the surface. If the person who tested this for you didn't leave a very obvious spot where tested, like one of the sharp corners or edges having a very seriously deep flat spot, then his test was inconclusive.

Gold-filled usually tarnished differently that solid. Your piece has the look of gold-filled. I'm with Crusader, looks like gold-filled to me. I hope I'm wrong, I definitely could be.

Nice find either way.

 

[Casey13]

Congrats

Thank you!

 

[Casey13]

Depends how they tested it, it could still be 10K plated, if acid tested.

That is true, I didn't think about that.

 

[Casey13]

I test precious metals very regularly, often on a weekly basis. Acid testing works great with modern jewelry since modern pieces are either sold gold or gold plated. So when testing the item using a stone and acid you either rub through the plating to the base metal, meaning the test would show it's not gold, or, if it does test as gold, you can make the assumption that since you would have rubbed through the plating had there been any, it must be sold gold. Modern pieces are virtually never gold-filled. The process is too time consuming (expensive) today to make it worthwhile.

This is not the case at all with vintage or antique pieces, which yours certainly is. These would either be sold gold or gold-filled, almost never plated--and that's the problem. Gold-filled has a much thicker layer of sold gold--not plating--making it impossible to know if it's sold gold unless you rub deep enough to go all the way though the gold layer, often ruining the piece in the process.

In almost all cases (except when the piece has so much wear that the gold is already much thinner than originally) you need to either cut a notch in the item and acid-test the core directly on the piece, or rub it on the test stone enough to go very deep beyond the surface. If the person who tested this for you didn't leave a very obvious spot where tested, like one of the sharp corners or edges having a very seriously deep flat spot, then his test was inconclusive.

Gold-filled usually tarnished differently that solid. Your piece has the look of gold-filled. I'm with Crusader, looks like gold-filled to me. I hope I'm wrong, I definitely could be.

Nice find either way.

Thank you Emil W. I've always heard of gold filled and gold plated but didn't really think about that. If I were to a scratch down a small area in the back with a small sharp knife would I be able to tell?

 

[Red-Coat]

Just to clarify here....

Most modern gold plate is electro-plate (invented in 1805, but not commonly in use until the 1840s). However, you can't electroplate in 10k gold. The process deposits a layer of pure gold on the host core. So, even without scratching to expose the underlaying metal, if it tests as 10k then it's not electroplate, which would test as 24k

The alternative process is gold-fill (also know as rolled gold), where a layer of gold or gold alloy is bonded to the host core by heat and pressure in a sandwich fashion for the original sheet from which the item is made. While it's true that this is less commonly used for modern items, I would not say "virtually never". It remains the preferred process for superior items and those subject to a high degree of wear because the gold layer can be thicker. It can also give a layer which is harder because the gold in the exterior layer can be alloyed to a lower standard than 24k to improve its durability.

For gold-fill, you usually need to make a deeper scratch to expose the underlaying core, although gold-fill isn't always a 'thick' layer.

The more interesting question is what exactly is this? Badge? Some kind of shoulder pip or collar stud for an organisation? It looks like 'OS 13', although the stylisation of the letters means it might conceivably be 'DS 13', neither of which ring any bells for me.

 

[Emil W]

Thank you Emil W. I've always heard of gold filled and gold plated but didn't really think about that. If I were to a scratch down a small area in the back with a small sharp knife would I be able to tell?

If you're willing to scratch it with a knife (might be helpful, but probably not) are you willing to use a very small file to cut a deep notch in an edge? Admittedly that would spoil the piece and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to do that, but it's what it would really take to be sure. So if your main goal is to determine if it's sold gold, and you don't care about what you do to the piece, that's the ideal way to know for sure.

Using a very small hobby file with a sharp triangular edge, file a deep groove in the most inconspicuous place you can find. Then put a small drop of 10K test acid directly in the cut. Watch what the acid does using a loupe. If the acid bubbles, it's not gold, it's gold filled (the bubbles indicate it's reacting to the base metal core). If the acid does nothing, it's sold gold...assuming the cut was deep.

This is how most scrap dealers test old jewelry since their intention is to melt it down anyway and they don't care if they ruin the item.

I've sold and scrapped many of these tiny old jewelry pieces over the years, it's rare to find one that's sold gold and not marked. Most unmarked ones are gold filled.

Personally, I'd just accept that it's probably gold-filled and leave it be, putting it with my other finds since to me it's worth more as a personal find than what it would be worth in gold.

 

[Emil W]

Although I agree with everything Red-Coat has posted, In the thousands of antique, vintage, and modern jewelry items I've dealt with through my wife's business and having worked with a local auction with a large jewelry selection every month since 2004, I've never come across modern gold-filled pieces that have a thick enough gold layer to fool a standard acid test. I can't say the same for vintage gold-filled. The quality just isn't the same with modern jewelry.

 

[Casey13]

Just to clarify here....

Most modern gold plate is electro-plate (invented in 1805, but not commonly in use until the 1840s). However, you can't electroplate in 10k gold. The process deposits a layer of pure gold on the host core. So, even without scratching to expose the underlaying metal, if it tests as 10k then it's not electroplate, which would test as 24k

The alternative process is gold-fill (also know as rolled gold), where a layer of gold or gold alloy is bonded to the host core by heat and pressure in a sandwich fashion for the original sheet from which the item is made. While it's true that this is less commonly used for modern items, I would not say "virtually never". It remains the preferred process for superior items and those subject to a high degree of wear because the gold layer can be thicker. It can also give a layer which is harder because the gold in the exterior layer can be alloyed to a lower standard than 24k to improve its durability.

For gold-fill, you usually need to make a deeper scratch to expose the underlaying core, although gold-fill isn't always a 'thick' layer.

The more interesting question is what exactly is this? Badge? Some kind of shoulder pip or collar stud for an organisation? It looks like 'OS 13', although the stylisation of the letters means it might conceivably be 'DS 13', neither of which ring any bells for me.

Thank you so much Red-Coat for that information!
I'm with you about more interested in what did it go to and what did it mean.

 

[Casey13]

If you're willing to scratch it with a knife (might be helpful, but probably not) are you willing to use a very small file to cut a deep notch in an edge? Admittedly that would spoil the piece and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to do that, but it's what it would really take to be sure. So if your main goal is to determine if it's sold gold, and you don't care about what you do to the piece, that's the ideal way to know for sure.

Using a very small hobby file with a sharp triangular edge, file a deep groove in the most inconspicuous place you can find. Then put a small drop of 10K test acid directly in the cut. Watch what the acid does using a loupe. If the acid bubbles, it's not gold, it's gold filled (the bubbles indicate it's reacting to the base metal core). If the acid does nothing, it's sold gold...assuming the cut was deep.

This is how most scrap dealers test old jewelry since their intention is to melt it down anyway and they don't care if they ruin the item.

I've sold and scrapped many of these tiny old jewelry pieces over the years, it's rare to find one that's sold gold and not marked. Most unmarked ones are gold filled.

Personally, I'd just accept that it's probably gold-filled and leave it be, putting it with my other finds since to me it's worth more as a personal find than what it would be worth in gold.

Thank you again for providing all this information.
I did take my pocketknife and, on the backside, made a small pretty deep cut on it and didn't notice any color change on it. But again, like you said I would have to test it in that area.
I agree with what you said about accepting it for what it is and plus if it is real, it's not worth much in gold value but worth more to me for the find value.

 

[CRUSADER]

All very good information, all I knew was that if they didn't scratch deep enough it wouldn't prove solid gold on an acid test. Maybe thats how I should have put it, but then I would have never got all this extra detail.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Interesting find, gold or not, I'd still like to know what the 'DN13' stood for.
It's likely that we'll never know unless you do some localized research.
Dave

 

[Casey13]

All very good information, all I knew was that if they didn't scratch deep enough it wouldn't prove solid gold on an acid test. Maybe thats how I should have put it, but then I would have never got all this extra detail.

Thank you, I'm just grateful to have learned all of this from you guys.

 

[Casey13]

Interesting find, gold or not, I'd still like to know what the 'DN13' stood for.
It's likely that we'll never know unless you do some localized research.
Dave

Thank you, Dave,
Thats the biggest question I have but I realize I probably won't ever figure that out.
My guess is maybe it's the persons initials and the year 1913 that they were born maybe.