I have found the Lost Adams Diggings Sno-Ta-hay Canyon

[Cubfan64]

As a reminder, I had previously e-mailed a staff archaeologist (Eric Blinman, webpage here: http://www.nmarchaeology.org/eric-blinman.html ) with the State of New Mexico's Office of Archaeological Studies, who denied any interest that his office had in that area. I also emailed a staff archaeologist with the Bureau of Land Management's Soccorro District, which has jurisdiction over federal lands in the area in question. Here is her reply:

"Hello – We’re sorry to have taken so long to get back to you! Thanks for your patience. As far as we know, these are as you suspected natural geological and topographical features. The mound builders among the prehistoric Native Americans did construct some amazing earthworks, but these are east of the Mississippi river. And yes, we do have archaeological interests in west central New Mexico, but these are “standard” archaeological remains – sites, trails, isolated artifacts, and protohistoric and historic village sites of modern Native Americans. But no earthworks in animal form or otherwise. I did take a quick peek at his site – I can’t say about the Adams diggings, but I’m certain that the earthworks are not manufactured by human agency (or aliens either for that matter…). If you are interested in the archaeological resources of west central New Mexico, there are many publications available out there, everything from technical reports to National Geographic, Arizona Highways, and New Mexico magazines. So thanks for your note, and I hope this answers your inquiry. Sincerely, Sara Stebbins."

Sara T Stebbins
Archaeologist
BLM, Socorro Field Office
901 S Highway 85
Socorro NM 87801
Phone: 575-838-1257

There are only two governmental agencies with jurisdiction over archaeological resources in the area in question, and neither of them are interested in any "animal effigies", and I can back that statement up with comments from real archaeologists, Eric Blinman and Sara Stebbins. Also, for the record, there are no National Parks Service lands near this area.

I don't understand why filemaker hasn't offerred at least a couple documented references for these professional folks who are interested in studying the area he mentions. With it being public knowledge now where they are located based on his maps and GE photos, there doesn't appear to be anything to hide. I would welcome a few professional contacts to talk with about the area and see what their thoughts are.

 

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[Oroblanco]

Cubfan wrote

there doesn't appear to be anything to hide

In a Nutshell!

 

[AZ_Gold]

I don't understand why filemaker hasn't offerred at least a couple documented references for these professional folks who are interested in studying the area he mentions.

In my opinion, he can't offer documented references for any professionals because there isn't anyone studying the area. There is simply nothing to study.

He is, once again, offering up more empty claims while ignoring all the members who asked for previous evidence, such as the "flyover" photos. Then he has the unmitigated audacity to scream "WINNER" even though he has accomplished nothing and proven nothing. Phil seems to be under the mistaken impression that unsupported claims are evidence.

I am offended. Phil is playing us all for fools.

What really bothers me is his constant promotion of pseudoscience, presented as fact, such as the misinformation about the Sumerians. (And just what the [bleep] do they have to do with this anyway?)

We already know at Sumerians, 4000 - 3000 BC knew and drew on many walls all the planets which is to some a big mystery.

No big mystery: the Sumerians didn't draw all the planets. They were completely unaware of most of the planets we know today, as they had no telescopes.

Watching "Ancient Aliens" is not scientific research I'm afraid. This nonsense is based on fiction writer Zecharia Sitchin's misinterpretations of cuneiform text and Sumerian drawings.

What is depicted in this Sumerian image is not the sun and planets. It is not the sun, it's another star surrounded by other stars. The Sumerians had a very specific depiction of our sun, and this isn't it. All experts agree on this. You can read all about it here:

VA243 Seal PDF file from the Sitchin Is Wrong website

Dr. Heiser wrote this a long time ago, when he was a Ph.D. candidate. He has since gotten his Ph.D. and has quite an impressive list of credentials as an expert in this field.

Mike Heiser earned an M.A. (1998) and Ph.D. (2004) in Hebrew Bible and Ancient Semitic Languages from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. His dissertation was entitled, "The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature" (English translation: the dissertation dealt with the presence of a pantheon in the Hebrew Bible and the binitarian nature of ancient Israelite religion and Judaism, a backdrop for the the belief in the deity of Christ in the New Testament). Before going to the UW-Madison, Mike also earned an M.A. in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania (1992; major fields, Ancient Syria-Palestine and Egyptology). Mike can do translation work in roughly a dozen ancient languages, among them Biblical Hebrew, Biblical Greek, Aramaic, Syriac, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Phoenician, Moabite, and Ugaritic cuneiform. He has also studied Akkadian and Sumerian independently.

And Sitchen's credentials? He has none. He studied economics. He has no training, education, or experience in ancient languages or in ANY scientific field. Yet millions of people have bought his books, and his nonsense.

To get back on topic... well, I take that back. This thread has been off topic for over a year. It never really was about the gold legend. In the very first post Phil was wanting to "save the canyon" because of a non-existent "Valley Of The Chiefs", a burial mound for which there is no evidence and which contradicts what is known about Apaches.

So let's get back to the latest topic, the effigies. Phil once challenged me to prove they don't exist. I will do exactly that.

Credit: http://www.snotahaycanyon.com/

In this image Phil has simply drawn a butterfly where nothing exists. The hills between the wings are directly connected to the hills in the left wing. You have to ignore that fact to believe in his butterfly. The right wing is even worse. It doesn't exist on the landscape. This USGS image shows it even more clearly:

But it gets even weirder....

Here you see Phil has drawn two different effigies on the same exact capture in Google Earth. I didn't even have to adjust the images to create this animation: it's the same exact image. He just drew two different effigies on it.

And the two effigies contradict one another. They overlap.

The other effigies are much the same, though not quite as obvious. The "bison" is chopped up by valleys, the swan has no wings.

I think I've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that at least two effigies don't exist. In the absence of any supporting evidence for the others, it's safe to assume they don't exist either.

Now, I may be fairly new to this forum, but I am by no means new to forums. One thing I know: this thread does not qualify as a discussion, at least not from Phil's standpoint. He has intentionally ignored members since long before I joined. He insults anyone who disagrees, while never providing any good reason to agree. This thread is an insult to every good TNet member who has taken the time to post their views and to listen respectfully to others views.

And it isn't really about a lost gold legend.

Nothing in this thread makes any sense to me, and I suspect that the majority of readers agree (judging by the many comments).

I would suggest, no, urge, that the moderators move this thread to the non-sense forum. I think that's the appropriate place for it. I offer one final quote from Phil as evidence for this:

Ten of the original Adams party men after finding the canyon went to a colony towards Fort Wingate to fetch supplies only they returned with so much ammunition and weapons and other stuff that when Chief Nana saw the goods, he ordered the men killed for trespassing on Apache soil against the current then treaty. Adams buried the men where he found them in the ravine where a friend of mine found their remains as well as old supplies and more in the gulch...

Phil's "friend" found human remains and artifacts at Phil's location? And there's no newspaper article? No mention on the internet? No police blotter entry?

Does that claim make any sense to anyone here? Any sense at all?

 

[Cubfan64]

I admit to giving Phil (Filemaker) the benefit of the doubt for quite some time despite the fact that I was unable to "see" any of the things in the landscape that he was pointing out.

I wish I could continue to offer that benefit of the doubt, but due to the lack of any credible references to back up those public claims, I have no choice but to ignore any future discussions under this thread.

It's a shame, but I don't like being played for a fool, and once I'm convinced that's what's happening it's easy to just ignore future posts.

 

[urbantreasure]

First off, if an Army surgeon was given the Adam's map then why didn't he or the Calvary, Adams or anyone else get the gold a long time ago? 2nd, if persons unknown have already found the gold they would most likely not publicize it, that is why no one will ever know if it has been found or not. 3rd, why the need to file appropriate claims with proper authorities if the deed or claim is already owned by this person? Lastly, if this area is a burial ground or a sacred site it is illegal to perform such activities. Furthermore, do people actually think that Native Americans are stupid and do not know their own legends better than anyone else?
Quoted portion of poster's message:
"ancient Apache Chief burial grounds and may still contain a significant amount of gold"

 

[Curious_George]

I am interested in learning more about the followup to Dick French's search for the Lost Adams. As I understand it, he was approached by 2 men from Las Cruces, NM who claimed to have discovered the diggings, and harvested many "Civil War era" artifacts, as well as gold, in working the canyon.

From my research online, it is claimed that Mr. French is unable to interest a publisher in publishing his book based on having actually been to the site several times... His book is called "Return to the Lost Adams Diggings."

As a fan of his book "Four Days From Fort Wingate," I am very interested in reading this new MS and wonder if it can be purchased as a pdf file? Can anyone with knowledge of the book, its claims & author substantiate its authenticity?

If so, how would I go about getting a pdf version of the MS? My interest is primarily historical, as-- though I used to be an aggressive backpacker (bp'd the Grand Canyon several times), I am now disabled by Parkinson's, and am often unable to climb the stairs to my office & bathroom-- just had a stair lift installed.

I would sure like to read-- and visualize-- the continuation of Dick's adventures, as it sounds a lot like what my wife & I would have been doing, had my health held up.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Curious_George]

Oppss.. forgot to ask. I understand that the magazine "Gold Prospector" of May/June of 2011 had an article on this, possibly by Dick French himself.

Does anyone here have access to that issue? If so, is the article informative or simply hype?

Don't want to drop $4.95 on ordering a copy if it's simply hot air-- and am very interested in it if it is authentic, credible information. Gotta watch my pennies on SS disability.

Thanks again

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

my only comment on this topic....CAVALRY !!!! MEN ON HORSIES....CALVARY....MAN ON CROSS.

 

[Cacheology]

150 year old treasure legend proven true - CNN iReport

 

[alaskabill]

Its been a while since the "CNN Report" suggested a book by the leader of the group who made the discovery of Adams Diggings. Also, a documentary about the discovery was forcasted to be released.

Has anyone seen anything new on this "success" story? I am beginning to think that it is a fraud.

 

[UncleMatt]

Bill, please see my thread on calling out Treasureforce for their LAD claims. More info there.

 

[alaskabill]

Bill, please see my thread on calling out Treasureforce for their LAD claims. More info there.

Thanks, Matt, I will.

 

[filemaker01]

Exactly which is maybe why the area is so run down the the images I also found every one in the Milky way so they must be at least from the last 1000 years or so that are in fact megalithic images carved into the terrain which was why the area was called the Sno Ta Hay Canyon by the Apache Chief that Adams and the party that was massacred ran into just before the treaty was signed after Adams was found 114 miles south while fighting over a dead stinking rabbit while barely alive next to the river. The Calvary brought the two back to the post where the physician mentioned in the story was given the map as was mentioned by the websites I mentioned who found the canyon and hidden treasure just as he said. Only nobody realized until I read the part of the book that stated how Adams suspected something odd about the way the terrain of the cabin looked oddly like animals in a way as he stated one of the mounds under the moonlight looked like the head and torso of a bear laying on it's back looking up at the stars and Milky Way with the Saddle Mountain in the background from where they were perched on the highest point above the pumpkin patch just as I also proved. One thing is for sure, this area should absolutely be considered sacred and if not a National Monument considering what it really may stand for while one can only imagine if it were really an Apache Chief only burial grounds just what was all looted already over the last three hundred years or so or what may still lay that should be protected for the sake of the Apache and if not for the sake of the history of our great nation. Such a beautiful area too.

 

[filemaker01]

So just to finally conclude to the fact, yes it really is the fabled Sno Ta Hay Canyon in that if you read the books as I did Adams clearly stated while perched the night on the highest point over the pumpkin patch at the edge of the canyon they could see the smoldering embers of the cabin and smoke while he also noticed that the haystack under the full moon looked like the head and torso of a bear looking up at the Milky Way and the area began to look kind of like different animals carved into the terrain. Obviously if this was an ancient secret Apache Chief only burial grounds then over the last three hundred years has been looted and the lands carved out so much that much of the images details are seriously fading however the point is now to find out just how old the megaliths really are if everyone would just cooperate then hopefully the area can be preserved with all the same rights for those using the area already before the truth was finally discovered, by mwah, Thank You. Anyway, happy treasure hunting all, as I stated before treasures are wherever you find them in many forms in many places we haven't even scratched the surface of yet.

 

[Oroblanco]

So amigo, let us see some of that fabled gold? Gold will help seal the deal for many of us. Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[MichiganMan]

snip -- As an example: a young man with over twenty years of experience in researching ocean floors discovered an object that looks exactly like a UFO, the size of a 747 airbus. I can only imagine how he feels every time some heckler has something vicious or unproductive to say as they continue to research, I doubt his superiors or those he depends on for intellectual guidance and understanding would even think about doing something so ridiculous. -- snip -- Phil

This "example/argument" is self-defeating. The very definition of a UFO is that it is unidentified. Therefore how can an "object" on the ocean floor look like a UFO when nobody knows what a UFO looks like?

 

[larbuckle]

so any one have gps coordinates on the canyon?

 

[BIGSCOTT]

the new book is out, i dont know why nobody has mentioned it, you can get a copy on amazon

 

[AiredalesOnly]

Wow! This thread is the REAL Treasure!

Just a few random observations:

It appears that LoveFish has left the building, and who can blame him after all the meanness that he encountered from some of you?

The poor man was attempting to get the Lost Adams Diggings recognized as a WORLD HERITAGE SITE, for the love of Gawd, and he was greeted with multiple manifestations of three and possibly four of the Seven Deadly Sins for his trouble.

And that's a guy who had eight years (when the thread began; he added two more over the duration) of REAL College, and who rubbed shoulders with a REAL President (unlike you mutts, I might add).

Ya'll ought to be ashamed of the treatment that you gave that fella, is all that I can say.

Actually....

I can say a few more things.

For one, as someone who Administered the second UBB on the 'Net dealing with predator calling for ten years, beginning in 2000 or so, I thought that the Flame Wars were a thing of the past, subsumed by political correctness and a general "love thy neighbor" attitude, and I've been laughing out loud for the last half-hour while reading some of the posts in this thread. Of course, LoveFish is one of those guys who keeps sticking his face out and positively begging to be hit, but all one can do is fire accurately at whatever target presents itself, que no?

I became progressively more and more devastated when his active links led nowhere, though; I was dying to contact him, or at least to read more of his stuff, but no such luck; "server not found" or "URL for sale" was the best that I could do.

As far as Catron County (and it's ranchers) are concerned, if you're prowling around on their grazing land and they accost you, just tell 'em that you're gunning for Mexican wolves; they'll take you home, feed you dinner, and offer you a bed down the hall from their loveliest daughter.

I lived in the old Fanny Hill Ghost Town for three years, behind the ridge North of Mogollon, while I was working for Dick Manning at his little mill on Silver Creek, manning what may have been the last of the sledgehammer grizzlies in the Rocky Mt. West, so I know whereof I speak, and even though I spend most of my time across the Blue these days the ranchers on that side of the Line are more of the same, and they don't much care for wolves either.

If I remember correctly one of the Cooney brothers died back in one of the canyons behind Cliff while rummaging around for a lost placer deposit; red hematite quartz rotten with wire gold that some old boy had left in his pockets after being run through the mountains by the Apache, but I don't remember exactly who that fella was, although it seems as though his name was attached to the lost workings. I do remember that they later found Cooney's body and a diary, and the last entries were pretty poignant; "tried to climb out, but too weak; tried to climb out."

That sure is beautiful country back in there, though; big deep canyons and rugged cliffs, and even though I've spent more time chasing elk and lion and bear than I have looking for gold any excuse will do to saddle a good mule and get out in the middle of it, and the notion that you might just accidentally trip on the right canyon or outcropping or vein just adds a little more spice to the proceedings.

It's a mortal shame that LoveFish is all crippled up (physically; his mind is still "hunnert percent," as
one of the mental patients in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" always tells the Doctor) or I'd put him on a good gentle mule, mob up a half-dozen of my (armed) buddies, and take him the long way 'round to the Adams; he'd entertain a man for weeks in camp, and I'd fight the whole White Mt. tribe to keep him (for a while, anyhow).

But maybe that's just a personality flaw; my Daddy always told me,

"Son, I don't mind a good liar; because at least he's entertaining. A bad liar makes me angry, though, because of the assumptions that he makes about my intelligence."

I'm not sure where I'd rank the LoveFish as far as skill is concerned, but he's sure enough VERBOSE, and there are some first-rate nuggets to be gleaned from his posts, even if they're not the golden kind.

AiredalesOnly

 

[Riverbum]

From my History studies of the Glenwood Spring/Mogollon area, One of the Cooney Brothers was killed in an Apache Raid, his body is interred in a Boulder hollowed out by miners. This Boulder can be found on the dirt road just North of the Mogollon cut off at Alma