Hunting a Roman road in England

[Urien of Rheged]

Up this morning from the deep on an old Roman road I've been focusing on recently.
The construction of this road from England's north West coast to York has been estimated to have been sometime from 70AD - 120AD
I think this sword scabbard chape is post medieval possibly Tudor or maybe even as late as the English civil war. Lancashire saw a lot of fighting in that decade long conflict and Cromwells troops are known to have come through this area from Yorkshire to do battle against a Scots royalist army in 1648 and would have undoubtedly used this old highway to get there.

 

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[Urien of Rheged]

URIEN you sure are an ASSET to this forum Thank you for sharing with us

That's very kind of you Gare. Sharing isn't a problem my friend. I come home and unless it's gold my missus doesn't want to know and my kids eyes glaze over the moment I start rambling 😆 being 52 now I'm not as social as once upon a time so there are very few I can share this kind of thing with really.
I'm glad someone...anyone takes an interest and appreciates the history of it all.

So if you find an area with a lot of small stones , small pieces of oval lead ( check for marks or lettering) , this could be an indicator group sling shot,

Thanks pal, and I'll stop you right there.
I'm fortunate to have a permission next to a Roman fort.
In the nearest field that you can legally detect in proximity to the old fort a few months ago I found what I first thought was a musket ball until I realised is was more shaped like a lemon. It crossed my mind due to where I'd found it that it could well be a lead slingshot projectile but it got put in the miscellaneous box and was forgotten about.
It's shared permission and I only hit it when my mate is around. Got a text this morning asking if I fancied a few hours so I did.
We've had plenty of Roman and medieval from that field and it keeps producing. He's had a few splendid denarius. I just keep finding the grots though bit I've had medieval hammereds
Today neither of us where finding much. Getting desperate we searched the hedge on that legal boundary, well within distance of a slingshot projectile being fired from the fort and lo and behold up came another lemon shaped looking lead ball thingy.
I told my mate I'd had one here before and told him I'm pretty sure they are slingshot. He looked at me very skeptically though.
The one I found today is on the right, still has soil ingrained. No signs of markings other than that line on the left one.
What do you think?
I'll definetly give them to the FLO to have a look but do you think they could be?

 

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[Urien of Rheged]

With regards to this Roman road for those interested, going back to what I was saying about it mysteriously vanishing toward the coast, the earlier map showing the Roman road system in the area suggests our road terminated at Kirkham fort ( constructed we assume to guard the estuary) This map shows the direction it goes leaving the fort amd where the speculative Portus Setentorum was sited.
The estuary is the mouth of the River Ribble known to the Romans as the Belisima (Beautiful stream) etymologicaly the ancient Bel element is still present in the modern name, the Ribble.
Our road is actually known as Watling street and it follows the river valley throughout Lancashire turning south toward York iver in Yorkshire maybe 20 miles from that ancient metropolis.
Theres a famous Watling street that goes from Canterbury in the south east below London and Chester in the north West. It's generally assumed that our Watling street got it's name by mistaken identity coming from York. However. I believe the etymological experts who believe watling street derives from the Germanic "Wade" some kind of travelling Germanic God, have got it wrong and the true etymology for for Watling street derives from the ancient British amd was called by them like the famous one from Canterbury, "The Irish road". The ancient British name for Ireland being "Wydellia" or "Gwydell". Ireland is still very similarly spoke in the modern Welsh language.
And "The Irish road" is exactly what our road would be. If you where heading for a Port of Englands north West coast you'd be either heading to the Isle of Man or the Emerald isle.

 

[Derbyshire Detectorist]

That's very kind of you Gare. Sharing isn't a problem my friend. I come home and unless it's gold my missus doesn't want to know and my kids eyes glaze over the moment I start rambling 😆 being 52 now I'm not as social as once upon a time so there are very few I can share this kind of thing with really.
I'm glad someone...anyone takes an interest and appreciates the history of it all.

Thanks pal, and I'll stop you right there.
I'm fortunate to have a permission next to a Roman fort.
In the nearest field that you can legally detect in proximity to the old fort a few months ago I found what I first thought was a musket ball until I realised is was more shaped like a lemon. It crossed my mind due to where I'd found it that it could well be a lead slingshot projectile but it got put in the miscellaneous box and was forgotten about.
It's shared permission and I only hit it when my mate is around. Got a text this morning asking if I fancied a few hours so I did.
We've had plenty of Roman and medieval from that field and it keeps producing. He's had a few splendid denarius. I just keep finding the grots though bit I've had medieval hammereds
Today neither of us where finding much. Getting desperate we searched the hedge on that legal boundary, well within distance of a slingshot projectile being fired from the fort and lo and behold up came another lemon shaped looking lead ball thingy.
I told my mate I'd had one here before and told him I'm pretty sure they are slingshot. He looked at me very skeptically though.
The one I found today is on the right, still has soil ingrained. No signs of markings other than that line on the left one.
What do you think?
I'll definetly give them to the FLO to have a look but do you think they could be?View attachment 2195077View attachment 2195078

Urien your welcome.
yes definately do show the Finds liason officer.
The final decision is theirs of course.
But just looking at your pictures, they are the correct shape, the lead looks to be the correct colour, and they are both uniform in design.
You have to remember that they could possibly be nearly 2000 years old with a lot of environmental damage happening within the last 100 years due to chemicals, pesticides ,acid rain etc. This could have eroded them somewhat. But I think they are slingshot. However you will need to find a lot more in the area to confirm a possible skirmish site.
you might try old fashioned paper rubbing with pencil to see do any legend or symbols appear.
please note that they may be very UNPC in nature.
very good finds , and well done for saving these for the future, another 50 to 100 years in the soil and they could be eroded beyond recognition. cheers DD

 

[invent4hir]

Urien, that coin is AMAZING! So tiny yet so historic! This and other references may help you date those buckles. Oh, I know what you mean about talking to family members about this hobby & history in general.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

Off the Roman line into the field a couple hundred yards tonthe north and things where quiet until this little copper alloy medieval heraldic horse pendant came up.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

I've just been granted a new permission that has a decent stretch of Roman road. Though this is a different road that heads north to south and is about 10 miles from where I live in about as rural an area there is in England.
I had a scout up there recently when I gained the permission of the landowner. Really looking forward to hunting this area over the coming months.
I went and found where the road runs through the fields and took this picture standing right in the middle of the old road. Looking to the south south west. The farmer says in the summer when the grass dries out you can often see the road distinctly here during long dry periods. You'll need to zoom in but you can actually see the slight camber of the road at the end of the field im standing and if look at the horizon directly above you'll notice a little gap in those trees on that hill summit. That is exactly on the roman line. Perfectly straight through the valley that it descends and then ascends again up to that point where it then changes direction on the summit and heads due south straight to the Fort at Ribchester.

 

[Gene Mean]

Good luck with the new permission

 

[invent4hir]

I've just been granted a new permission that has a decent stretch of Roman road. Though this is a different road that heads north to south and is about 10 miles from where I live in about as rural an area there is in England.
I had a scout up there recently when I gained the permission of the landowner. Really looking forward to hunting this area over the coming months.
I went and found where the road runs through the fields and took this picture standing right in the middle of the old road. Looking to the south south west. The farmer says in the summer when the grass dries out you can often see the road distinctly here during long dry periods. You'll need to zoom in but you can actually see the slight camber of the road at the end of the field im standing and if look at the horizon directly above you'll notice a little gap in those trees on that hill summit. That is exactly on the roman line. Perfectly straight through the valley that it descends and then ascends again up to that point where it then changes direction on the summit and heads due south straight to the Fort at Ribchester.View attachment 2196802

Urien, best of success! You are fortunate that in the Summer when the grass dries out you can often see the road distinctly here during long dry periods. A tip for locations where that does not occur, is to examine a false color composite of satellite image of the area. Healthy vegetation will appear a bright red while stressed vegetation (i.e. where the road may be) will be more pink.

 

[robertk]

in the Summer when the grass dries out you can often see the road distinctly

It's funny that along ancient roads we find cool relics and treasures, but along modern roads all we find is junk. I'm not sure what that says about our societies.

 

[searcher]

@Urien of Rheged I have been using this Lidar source to look at the Roman roads.
https://www.lidarfinder.com/

Fun to see and find where they go in that local area.

On the aerial where you put the yellow squiggles-
There's a small patch of trees that Lidar shows has two soil anomalies in it. Possibly a couple ditches and mounds.
Could that be a man made defensive position or is it naturally made by the trees?

 

[Urien of Rheged]

9

@Urien of Rheged I have been using this Lidar source to look at the Roman roads.
https://www.lidarfinder.com/

Fun to see and find where they go in that local area.

On the aerial where you put the yellow squiggles-
There's a small patch of trees that Lidar shows has two soil anomalies in it. Possibly a couple ditches and mounds.
Could that be a man made defensive position or is it naturally made by the trees?

Lidar is fascinating to study and a gamechanger that shows exactly where the road went. From the village of Ribchester you have this east west road going to York, and also the north south road (a part of which im currently focused on) There is also a north West road that headed to Lancaster (another fort Caster and Chester from the latin Castra) The route this road took was hotly debated upon for decades by scholars and it was only thanks to Lidar we now know it's exact course and it wasnt the route widely accepted.

That area you pointed out is an old hollow that has a group of not particularly old trees in it. It looks like it was a regular haunt for someone maybe 30 years ago when those tress would have been knee high I actually found that Charles II coin between those trees and the Roman line, however giving it a good search is impossible it's full of long grass and quite boggy I was really lucky to catch that little hammered in there.

I haven't been back on that particular stretch for a while now as I say focusing on another section, the north West Ribchester to Overborough. It's as rural an area as it gets in England, rhe ambience, scenery and wildlife are fantastic but oh my is it quiet Even if not especially the Roman line up there seems desolate. One of thise places you need to check whether your machine is actually working every once in a while. There's a lifetimes worth of hunting up there though and I even got permission to hint a neighbouring farm. The locals talk of a great battle fought there. I'd heard this said before on two of the farmers mentioned it though there is nothing "official". One of the farmers particularly is very knowledgeable and though he couldn't recall the date how the farms in the area where exempted paying their annual tithes due to am army of Scots ravaging the area. Of course that army would have come down off the moors on this ancient road, so even though it's not an area you cone away from with a pocket full of bits and pieces, it's a place that probably has something really special lurking about.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

It's a funny old game this metal detecting. Hours on that Roman road heading north. Farmer has lived there all his life and says to his knowledge no one has ever hunted it.
Hour after hour and nothing. It's scenic and it's rural in you never see a soul but my word you begin to feel like no one ever hung around up there.
And so today with onky a short window of opportunity I hit the Ribchester to York road once again revisting the stretch I found that Lucilla Augusta denarius 3 years or so ago.

Finding the exact Roman line on that field within half an hour up came a Roman Follis. A Constantine the Great AE3 Camp gate struck at Trier in 325-326AD.
Within five minutes of that and only a few yards away and on what was a disturbingly bad signal the kind I'd most often walk away from and up came a 1st century Pennanular Brooch minus the pin.
Ends what has been a bit of a drought too so very happy with thst result.

 

[searcher]

Thanks for the new finds pics.
Myself and my spawn enjoy seeing what you pull up.
Every couple days they ask if there's anything new...

 

[invent4hir]

Urine, another great post and artifacts! Almost like I'm there. Amazed at how good of shape they are in. Wonder if the farmer ever found anything tilling the fields?

 

[scavenger1]

You lucky RASCAL... if I was there I would snatch that scabbard chape out your hand and take off with it and all you would be seeing is bass and elbows ... well maybe not

 

[Gare]

9

Lidar is fascinating to study and a gamechanger that shows exactly where the road went. From the village of Ribchester you have this east west road going to York, and also the north south road (a part of which im currently focused on) There is also a north West road that headed to Lancaster (another fort Caster and Chester from the latin Castra) The route this road took was hotly debated upon for decades by scholars and it was only thanks to Lidar we now know it's exact course and it wasnt the route widely accepted.

That area you pointed out is an old hollow that has a group of not particularly old trees in it. It looks like it was a regular haunt for someone maybe 30 years ago when those tress would have been knee high I actually found that Charles II coin between those trees and the Roman line, however giving it a good search is impossible it's full of long grass and quite boggy I was really lucky to catch that little hammered in there.

I haven't been back on that particular stretch for a while now as I say focusing on another section, the north West Ribchester to Overborough. It's as rural an area as it gets in England, rhe ambience, scenery and wildlife are fantastic but oh my is it quiet Even if not especially the Roman line up there seems desolate. One of thise places you need to check whether your machine is actually working every once in a while. There's a lifetimes worth of hunting up there though and I even got permission to hint a neighbouring farm. The locals talk of a great battle fought there. I'd heard this said before on two of the farmers mentioned it though there is nothing "official". One of the farmers particularly is very knowledgeable and though he couldn't recall the date how the farms in the area where exempted paying their annual tithes due to am army of Scots ravaging the area. Of course that army would have come down off the moors on this ancient road, so even though it's not an area you cone away from with a pocket full of bits and pieces, it's a place that probably has something really special lurking about.

Do you have to pay for Lidar over there ? If so can you share what a cost would be ?

Thank you in advance

 

[Urien of Rheged]

Do you have to pay for Lidar over there ? If so can you share what a cost would be ?

Thank you in advance

Do you have to pay for Lidar over there ? If so can you share what a cost would be ?

Thank you in advance

www.lidarfinder.com is free to use 👍

 

[Gare]

www.lidarfinder.com is free to use 👍

THANK YOU Very very much !!!

 

[Urien of Rheged]

THANK YOU Very very much !!!

It's a fantastic resource to use. On this map of Roman roads in my area route 704aa.(from the fort at Ribchester to the fort at Lancaster) was only confirmed quite recently thanks to Lidar. A direct route was always the preferred theory but no trace of it had been found and it would have had to take in some steep hills to go directly. As it turned out thanks to lidar we now know the Romans took a low lying route across to an adjacent road coming from the south.

Redirect Notice

Talking of Ribchester, I found another of those slingshot projectiles there not too long ago.
.

My pal though scored an incredible republican denarius from 143BC, a coin that would have been an antique when it was lost as the Romans didn't reach Ribchester until 79AD.

He also recently found this beautiful Trajan
Denarius with the still to this day standing Trajans column pictured on the reverse and also this Mercury statue frag

 

[Urien of Rheged]

Not absolutely sure yet but I'm hoping this turns out to be another Roman relic this time up from the other road that has so far been desolate. (Road 7c on the map and found pretty much where the 7c is wrote) Either a Mount or a Brooch but it may need the finds liason officer to confirm. You can still see a red enamelling in places that would have coloured it and the Romano British did like those bright colours.