How deep?

[Tom_in_CA]

yea but whether you've seen 50 or 1000 unsuccessful operations it doesn't give you the capability of conclusively saying yes or no the target is real based on the information ive given you. you keep talking about landmarks, how do you know there aren't any landmarks around here? your mind is rushing to negative without any real evidence.....

Some observations on the above quote :

a) if history had shown 50 or 1000 failures, then ... seems to me ... that at a certain point you'd have to take into account if you are really chasing something that's simply not there. Examples : 1) If you turn over 1000 rocks looking for a unicorn, at what point do you begin realize "maybe there's not unicorns here ?" 2) If you try to stuff a watermelon into a plastic sandwich baggie, and fail 1000 times, at what point do you admit that "maybe watermelons don't fit into plastic sandwich baggies ?" In other words: At some point, you've got to realize what your odds are, based on past history .

b) I have already addressed your "5 types detecting technology" in post #20. Any comment on that ?

c) Yes, the skeptic's mind "rushes to the negative". But here's where I think your logic has it backwards: You say "... without any real evidence" [for them to be negative/skeptical] . Right ? But why is the burden of proof on them to prove it ISN'T there ? Isn't the burden of proof on the claimant to prove it IS there ?

Haven't you heard the old saying: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". And actually, I do think the skeptic's have given adequate proof. There are, as you yourself admit overwhelming failures and utter lack of any finds. At *SOME* point doesn't that become indicative ? There are scholarly doubts as to the notion of "treasures being stashed in the Philippines" to begin with. Haven't you read those links and quotes ?

Yes I'm sure you can find some extreme way that some crazy motive or ability might have been feasible. So too could I create and invent a far-fetched notion why I might decide, and physically accomplish riding a tricycle backwards to New York. But is it logical ? No. Are there more plausible explanations why I might decide to take my car instead ? Yes. Does the mere fact of physically possible make it necessarily true ? No.

 

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[enochsea7]

Some observations on the above quote :

a) if history had shown 50 or 1000 failures, then ... seems to me ... that at a certain point you'd have to take into account if you are really chasing something that's simply not there. Examples : 1) If you turn over 1000 rocks looking for a unicorn, at what point do you begin realize "maybe there's not unicorns here ?" 2) If you try to stuff a watermelon into a plastic sandwich baggie, and fail 1000 times, at what point do you admit that "maybe watermelons don't fit into plastic sandwich baggies ?" In other words: At some point, you've got to realize what your odds are, based on past history .

b) I have already addressed your "5 types detecting technology" in post #20. Any comment on that ?

c) Yes, the skeptic's mind "rushes to the negative". But here's where I think your logic has it backwards: You say "... without any real evidence" [for them to be negative/skeptical] . Right ? But why is the burden of proof on them to prove it ISN'T there ? Isn't the burden of proof on the claimant to prove it IS there ?

Haven't you heard the old saying: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". And actually, I do think the skeptic's have given adequate proof. There are, as you yourself admit overwhelming failures and utter lack of any finds. At *SOME* point doesn't that become indicative ? There are scholarly doubts as to the notion of "treasures being stashed in the Philippines" to begin with. Haven't you read those links and quotes ?

Yes I'm sure you can find some extreme way that some crazy motive or ability might have been feasible. So too could I create and invent a far-fetched notion why I might decide, and physically accomplish riding a tricycle backwards to New York. But is it logical ? No. Are there more plausible explanations why I might decide to take my car instead ? Yes. Does the mere fact of physically possible make it necessarily true ? No.

A) We are not talking about watermelons and sandwich "baggies" here. Honestly I believe you haven't even taken the time to research the facts around the Yamashita treasure. Look man, I've been in the Philippines for a few years now... It makes me a little tired to hear someone sitting at their computer in California tell me that im believing in a fantasy. If you saw a dirt poor banana farmer that didn't even make it to the 3rd grade (we're talking about someone just barely surviving on maybe $50-$60 per month), living deep in the mountains with literally zero options for increasing his income suddenly build a house that would be comfortable in a Beverly Hills neighborhood and then hear rumors that he found a few gold bars on his land, what would you believe? Better question, what else is there to believe? This is the Philippines man... Don't tell me he won the lottery or some sh*t.

B) Pulse induction is tried and true technology at this point. The Whites TM 808 has absolutely stellar reviews across the board. As far as your opinion of dowsing goes im just going to shut it down instantly with a quote from someone with a level of intelligence that, i would hope, you wouldn't so easily attempt to discredit:

Einstein himself respected dowsing and what it implied. He said:
“I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

C) Yes I've read all the things that people WHO HAVE ALREADY FOUND TREASURE themselves have said to try and discourage anyone else from attempting to find any. These claims are born out of nothing but deception and greed. There are mountain ranges of evidence to support the claim that yes, it does exist.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

A) We are not talking about watermelons and sandwich "baggies" here. Honestly I believe you haven't even taken the time to research the facts around the Yamashita treasure....

Yes we ARE talking "watermelons in sandwich baggies". IF the point is: "odds-on-favorite of history repeating itself". Perhaps our difference then is: You seem to imply that gold bars and yamashita treasures ARE being found. In that case, you're right: My analogy doesn't hold. Because , to carry the example, it would mean that someone DID fit a "watermelon into a sandwich baggie" So I guess I challenge the notion of the supposed finds. More on this in a minute.

And ... yes ... I have researched the Yamashita legend. But I know that you will say that: Anyone who researches it, who doesn't end up believing in it, hasn't researched it *enough*. Right ? I could say the same thing about Unicorns. If you say "they don't exist", then what's to stop me from saying : "That's because you haven't researched unicorns enough" ?

.... If you saw a dirt poor banana farmer living deep in the mountains with literally zero options for increasing his income suddenly build a house that would be comfortable in a Beverly Hills neighborhood and then hear rumors that he found a few gold bars on his land, what would you believe?....

Couple of responses to this:

1) Can you concede that there are multiple ways that people come into wealth, build bigger/nicer homes, have sudden income increases , etc.... ?

2) I find it very curious that YOUR OWN WORDS are: "rumors". Hmmm. Why that word ? Well I got news for you: forgive me for stereotyping certain cultures, but legend/lore and telephone-game gone wild, (ie.: "rumors") is very pronounced in some geographic areas.

For example, in Mexico, I ran into the same thing: "Rumors" of someone who found gold coins or gold bars. But I took it a step further enochsea7: I purposefully hunted down the persons . Whom my host was alluding to. Who "knew about a find". I'd interview them about this "gold". Well guess what ? It turns out they didn't actually see any gold. *BUT NOT TO WORRY*. Because they got it on good authority from so & so. So I tracked down that so & so to gather information. Well guess what ? They too didn't see the gold. But not to worry. They heard it on good authority from so & so. And so on, and so forth, back to permanent regression. Are you beginning to see the telephone game at play ebicgsea7? BUT AT NO POINT in the game, does it ever not cease to be first-person singular , past-tense certain "found".

Because the human mind wants SO HARD to believe in treasure (the stories are so fun). But with a little scrutiny, as you can see, the stories fall apart. And yes, in fact, they are nothing more than "rumors" (your own words). In fact, on a few of the stories I traced through 3 or 4 people, you'd finally arrive at the person who "saw" it, and .... presto: They just saw sparkles in the ground. Or smoke coming from a hole. Or had a dream, blah blah blah. Obviously I hope you can see those are not valid indications of "treasure".

....... B) Pulse induction is tried and true technology at this point. The Whites TM 808 has absolutely stellar reviews across the board. .....

Did you read my alternative explanation for "signals" that a detector gives, in post #20 ? DO NOT GET LOST IN THE EXAMPLE. Other examples There's been people who dug for hours, before discovering they had steel toe boots on that was giving the signal. And I recall a time when my buddy dug for 30 minutes deeper .... and deeeper... and deeper .... only to discover later than he was digging down through the center of a barrel hoop (the "beep" from the detector beeps @ the center of the hoop, doh!). I can continue on and give you 20 more examples. But I fear you will get "lost in the example". Suffice it to say: Not every "beep" of a detector means: "Yamashita treasure". There can be reasons . Eg.: You're misinterpreting it. It could be a soda can. It could be you're not setting the machine right, misintrepreting flutter, etc.. etc....

.... As far as your opinion of dowsing goes im just going to shut it down instantly with a quote from someone with a level of intelligence that, i would hope, you wouldn't so easily attempt to discredit:

Einstein himself respected dowsing and what it implied. He said:
“I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”
......

I'm afraid it's not just dealing with me on this front. I'm afraid you're going to find an avalanche of persons who 'diss the whole enterprise of dowsing.

As for Einstein saying that : Are you aware that "smart people make mistakes" ? Here's another true quote of Einstein: He was an acquaintance of Gerhard Fisher, who was the founder of Fisher metal detectors. Back when Fisher had started making inroads into metal detectors in the 1930s , he actually discussed it with Einstein. Einstein was said to have balked at it. Saying there was no commercial market for such a device. Well .... gee .... a look at the long list of metal detector manufacturers, who have indeed found willing customers to buy detectors .... That would seem to imply that Einstein made a mistaken future prediction there, eh ? There are brilliant people ALL THE TIME who are less than perfect, and made statements that later turned out to be un-true. Einstein, for all his brilliance, walked around with his fly open too. Geniuses can excel in one venue, but lack in others.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Yes I've read all the things that people WHO HAVE ALREADY FOUND TREASURE themselves ....

Now we're getting to the issue. Do you have any links to any stories of persons who found Yamashita treasure ? I would be more than happy to take a look at the data.

But my hunch now is (d/t I've "been here before") is that no examples or proofs are going to be forthcoming. Since those-that-found the treasures kept it mum. For fear of claim-jumpers, taxes, thieves, etc... Right ? If so, and none of these treasures can be "pinned down", then ..... how do you know they were or are being found ?

Whatever you heard that you THINK is a "treasure already found", will be ... I'm afraid ... in your own words ... "rumors". THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT TREASURES WEREN'T FOUND. Perhaps some were. But how can anyone analyze this , if it's always a moving target ?

You say you've "read" about people finding the treasure. That would indicate something you can link or quote. I'm game, please do so. But then you say they try to discourage others from looking, as purposeful deception and greed (to "keep the additional treasures-to-be-found to themselves, I suppose ?) . Why can't it be the other way around, that they DON'T believe there's treasures ?

For example: Maybe I too am nothing but a shill, eh ? That I'm just trying to dissuade people so I can find all the treasure for myself. Just like the persons you allude to , who discourage others ? Instead of it meaning "they didn't find anything", to you, it becomes ALL THE MORE EVIDENCE that they found stuff, but are involved in a conspiracy.

Do you see that no matter WHAT dissuading factors come your way, that each one of them can be spun into some sort of conspiracy ? The evidence will NEVER point to the contrary. Instead it must simply be 'hush jobs' to "hide treasure from others', etc... Eh ?

 

[XLV]

let me get this straight ( ive used a white 808 in the past and seen it used MANY MANY MANY TIMES ) U GOT A SIGNAL THAT MEANS A BOX FILLED WITH GOLD WOULD BE THE MOST 5 FEET ,,,,5 FEET ,,,,5 FEET ,,,,,,NO MORE THEN 5 FEET .....MAYBE AT TANK MA1A AT 8 FEET...... I GUESS CHINA VAULTS ARE IN TROUBLE

 

[XLV]

#1 THE WHITES 808 IS NOT a PI DETECTOR its vlf (old world) ......it had trouble with a sword at 1 foot a coin machine worked better and sounded off better ......what type of soil do u have baguio ,,,cebu ..... wet beach sand .....remember am trying to be nice ive been hunting all my life (im a old guy ) and i feel sorry for u and all the work u done ......if u dug more the 8 feet after hearing a good signal .....u are not in the right spot,,,,, 100% wasting your time

 

[XLV]

did u ever think that your signal might be the natural (iron copper gold salt carbon hot rocks etc ) in the ground the 808 cant tell the difference like a coin machine vlf ,,,,and i know first hand tom knows this better then i do he found more then i have ....say a very very large hot rock(common in bicol area ) ....so if u keep digging say 30 feet and hit water then what are u going to do .....sooner or later u hit water before u get to china .....step back and think about all this ....u got a signal whats the signal ?? are u in a mining area ?? 6 feet of black sand ?

 

[XLV]

if your in a natural gold copper iron nickel mining area .......take a coin detector vlf and go over all the fist size rocks( that are heavy)and larger .......maybe some of the rocks have iron in them i seen it before ....if that the case u have a good signal down to the water table few feet to the most 400 feet if u dont hit bedrock first ......if u dont have a coin machine brake open some the rocks and use a super magnet on them that might show u something.....u might find gold when u hit the bedrock but its not in a box and mother nature buried and have your mercury ready and your and am not joking seen this near sipalay

 

[Tom_in_CA]

666, I am shocked. Say it isn't so. Are you saying that each time I think my detector beeps that it's NOT necessarily a yamashita treasure ?? There might be more plausible explanations ?? Say it isn't so !

 

[XLV]

wait to i stop laughing no am talking to the great treasure hunter that dug one hole .....not to any arm chair detectors that dug 1000s of holes and made great finds ,,,,,,,i guess he knows more then someone that spent 15 years researching on those islands ,,, learning from people that were here during the war ,,,,someone that does it for the fun not the money ....please dont get me wrong if a said what i thinking i be banned in a new york minute ...lets say like 911

 

[XLV]

yamashita treasure ....well lets look at this did a guy japanese mid 50s or older 1980 s 1990s ( in news 3 years ago 10 tons in church in luzon ) look at this site ask questions about the area ? is there a large port near by ? how far from the seas is the site did anyone ever see a hospital ship in that port ? if not then were there large navy ships ( look on the net what they carry and what there routes its all there ) follow the gold ... this is just a start to the puzzle ................u think a guy with a book of real maps would just forget about billions of dollars worth of treasure and no body ever comes back for ,,,,,, well it took 3000 troops to move it and they all forgot right ....i know one possible site but am not digging (no not NPA not ISIS ) bigger problem the exact spot no land marks and yes its up in the mountains to make u happy so when u say arm chair your right but i never dig for nothing .....

 

[XLV]

tom puzzle 1944... small city with a deep enough port ,,, eye witness (many today in there 90s) seen a hospital ship ,,, city 1500 troops ,,,,, story goes my estimates up to 100 tons... move by troops to the bank less then kilometer away (no longer there today) ...us navy shows up in the sea (please dont miss this clue) they attack only the airport (bigger clue) 1944 ... the enemy troops remove the gold move it 6 miles and rest then another 4 miles ....tom u do the math these are real big bars one to a soldier ,,,no boxes ,,,up a steep mountain .... us planes attack them every day 500 die they move the gold behind the mountain another 4 miles remember no roads .... after the war someone finds a small buddha in the fox holes this is a fact and gold bars over the years ....california gold rush is started ....my good friend looked for more then 10 years and when his money ran out hung himself he believed he spent on the best equipment ...ive looked since he died a few years ago ....last clue they had plenty of time to bury (months ) well they didnt they used explosives to cover it up in a ravine thats the story .....what island is this i think i once told u tom .....lets see if the luzon guy knows

 

[Tom_in_CA]

........ after the war someone finds a small buddha in the fox holes...

Before I answer your question, I must ask: Re.: the above quote: Are you referring to the buddha @ Roxas story ??

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Also before I answer your question, I must ask where you are getting these story points. Is it in print anywhere, other than your post, here and now, on T'net ?

Because as I read the tantalizing points of your story, I am reminded of similar iron clad stories I heard, for a solid year, leading up to me taking the plunge to spend 4 weeks gallivanting all over various points in the Sierra Madres and Chihuahua desert of Mexico . Just like your story, so too was each story we were slated to chase: Iron clad true. Of people who saw such & such. Of suspicious activities . Of someone's sudden wealth. Of conspiracies. Of some tip of the iceberg of the treasure found already. Blah blah blah blah blah.

I have totally "been there / done that". And if you'd have told me before I left that there was perhaps more plausible explanations, I'd have totally denied it and dismissed it. If you'd have told me that any of the details were perhaps nothing more than telephone game gone awry, I'd have utterly bristled. The stories were ... like yours .... compelling. Therefore a detector will make child's play of finding more treasures, right ?

But as said: Once we got down there, and I began to inquire of my host "please introduce me to your friend or relative who saw such & such" (coins said to have been found, or whatever). Slowly but surely, they all fell apart.

IS THAT TO SAY THAT THEREFORE ALL TREASURE STORIES ARE FALSE ? No. But it's fair to ask, when someone spins a great story like in your post "What is the source" ? Ie.: where else is that written besides just here on T'net ?

I don't assume you're over 90 yrs. old to have witnessed all those WWII things, right ? AT BEST you could have interviewed a few of those veterans. So .... please tell more of where the facts of this story arise from. If you say: "Because I heard it from other treasure hunters", then ... you know what my response will be: Telephone game gone awry.

 

[enochsea7]

wait to i stop laughing no am talking to the great treasure hunter that dug one hole .....not to any arm chair detectors that dug 1000s of holes and made great finds ,,,,,,,i guess he knows more then someone that spent 15 years researching on those islands ,,, learning from people that were here during the war ,,,,someone that does it for the fun not the money ....please dont get me wrong if a said what i thinking i be banned in a new york minute ...lets say like 911

I never said I knew more than anyone and made it clear that I wasn't an expert. I just said you don't have enough information about anything to form an accurate opinion about whether or not this is a real target. Dug one hole? How do you have any idea how many holes I've dug? Do you think I came here to have some kind of dick measuring competition with you? You and Tom have fun together.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

enochsea7, you are being more-than-fair to discuss. I certainly hope we're wrong. I would love to eat crow. If you ever find it, put it on "today's find", and it'll make banner for sure.

 

[XLV]

no not the marcos treasure buddha.... this buddha (Solid) one fifth the size not found on on the island of luzon ,,,,,,,,, people here though dig up the battle field (mcflies).....so the gold rush been in the battle field ,,,,,there no treasure in the battle field 100% ,,,,,,buddha most likely stolen from the large population of chinese (natives) here and dont forget the 8000 (natives) from japan lived here before and during the war .....this treasure story is 1% possible but without a real map and markers 0% .....ive never seen a real map .....my friend took what he knew to the grave ...even with a real map its be only 1 in thousand chance ...ive walked the 4 miles many times the road ends at the battle field i cant figure it out .....one more thing 10 years ago in this area 2 hueys firing m60s down within 2 miles at rebels seen it with my own eyes.....and i only hope that guy finds treasure

 

[XLV]

enochsea7 i hope u know the war history in that area ( i mean 100%) u dont seem to know that whites 808 if u did u wont of been here ...i hope u learned from all the info i wrote (but u never asked any questions ) ...i dont ask questions but if dont have a real map or real markers (i seen both types) do more research and give it another try and good luck

 

[XLV]

tom on the island where that small buddha was found (3 feet down) the guy(deceased now) started a museum ww2 there with the stuff that was left in that battle site (his son has a web site ) ,,,that story on that island mayors have even looked the list of treasure hunters dozens over the years like it was like oak island ... 15 years ago there were some eye witness today good luck ......in the 90s the guy with the book of maps looked over 3 sites found nothing (i know a guy(pinoy) that did his leg work on one site ) as i write i bet u 100 sites in 100 mile radius of that place ive seen at least a dozen holes within a mile some deep ....but 99% of them are to lazy or afraid to go back in the jungle

 

[Tom_in_CA]

666 : Forgive my weakness on world religions, and demographics thereof, but : My business partner here in the USA is 100% Japanese. His Grandparent (and/or great grandparents) on both sides of his family were immigrants to the USA back in the 1890s to 1910s-ish. AS SUCH: his grand-parents, on his grandmother's side, were Buddhist . His grandparents , on his grandfather's side, were Christian (Presbyterian, to be exact, who had missionaries to the Orient in the 1800s).

Ok, something in that set of facts tells me that Japanese persons (and perhaps Filipino persons) could be EITHER Christian OR Buddhist. Right ? So why would it be unusual to find a "statue of Buddha" somewhere on the continent ?? Heck, I know a white Anglo fellow here in the USA who subscribes to Buddhism (I suspect by virtue of the "fad" of popularity in the 1960s where eastern mysticisms was in vogue. But .... whatever). Ok, fine. Perhaps he has statues in his home too ?

But what I'm trying to get at is: There are other plausible explanations for a Buddhist statue found somewhere on earth. I know it's so cool and far out to deduce it's "iron-clad evidence" of a Yamashita treasure. But .... why ? Why of necessity ??