How deep?

[enochsea7]

I suppose if I ever do find something, I will have to actually break open the chest and pour the gold bars directly on to your head before convincing you... and even then, "maybe".

All really good points bro. Of course I understand your skepticism. More the merrier as far as I'm concerned. We don't see eye to eye on this but I respect your opinion for sure.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I suppose if I ever do find something, I will have to actually break open the chest and pour the gold bars directly on to your head before convincing you... and even then, "maybe"....

Neither you nor I have ever seen Mel Fisher's museum of stuff. Nor have either of us seen the museum's of treasures excavated @ the Egyptian pyramids. Yet we both believe the stuff was found (without the stuff being poured over our heads).

T'net's "Today's find" forum is FILLED DAILY with show & tell, by md'rs and th'rs eager to show off their latest trophies to each other. Yes .... even some valuable stuff. Yes... even some caches now and then. And no: You and I don't have any reason to disbelieve them.

But I can already see the come-back retort lines (since I've been here before): "Those T'net today's finds column is all small peanuts. If someone found a big ticket item, they'd keep quiet. Because they're afraid of the IRS, thieves, and claim-jumpers. Right ?

So as you can see, it's not that I "wouldn't believe", it's just that all these yamashita treasures being found all the time are simply never making the news and show & tells. See the vicious circle ? And if you ask long and hard in the Phillipines, of all the hardcore hunters of the last 40 yrs., I'll bet none of them have seen a single item of this supposed treasure. Oh sure they'll allude to stories they heard, of someone they knew who saw something. And if you hunt down THAT person, it will turn out that *they too* did not actually "see" anything either. But instead got it on good authority from so & so. So you hunt down THAT person . And guess what ? They too never actually saw anything either. But not to worry, since they got it on good authority from .... Do you see the infinite regression ?

If you study the news worldwide, there are caches being found, that *do* make the news. Eg.: a farmer accidentally hits it with his plow. A construction worker accidentally digs it up with his backhoe. A couple walking their dog in the Sierra Nevada foothills finds rusting cans filled with gold coins. Mel Fisher finds the Atocha. Etc... etc... But alas: When it comes to Yamashita, they're all hush hush. Right ? So there's really no opportunity for a skeptic to believe in the first place, since none will ever be shown.

I admit: a few times some pictures surface of piles of gold bars someone says were Yamashita's found goodies. But when you go to correspond with the person who's sharing that/those photos on T'net, it's invariably not THEIR find. They just got the pix from somewhere else (typically a National Enquirer type news rag from the Philippines, can't doubt that, right ?).

 

[Robot]

Chest... Seems a little..."Light" to carry that "Much Weight"!

Gold is one of the heaviest metals on earth.

.70 lbs per cubic inch

If chest is 12" X 24" X 24" it is 6912 cubic inches or 4838 lbs

Almost the weight of burying "Two" of their Toyota's!


[TABLE="width: 395"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Toyota Corolla (E160)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Length[/TD]
[TD]4,360 mm (171.7 in) (2012—2014) 4,400 mm (173.2 in) (2015—)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Width[/TD]
[TD]1,695 mm (66.7 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Height[/TD]
[TD]1,460—1,465 mm (57.5—57.7 in) 1,485 mm (58.5 in) (4WD) 1,475—1,500 mm (58.1—59.1 in) (Fielder)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Curb weight[/TD]
[TD]1,050—1,200 kg (2,315lbs)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....

Almost the weight of burying "Two" of their Toyota's! ....[TABLE="width: 395"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

But I'll bet that with enough engineering, and enough speculated motives, and enough slaves, I could come up with a hypothetical situation where it's *technically* possible

And then my conclusion would be that the story is 100% true, unless you can prove otherwise. Eh ? No matter how remote the odds (they sent men to the moon after all), it's simply a matter of finding some crazy far-fetched human feat ability or motive, and then: It makes the whole story necessarily true then. Right ?

 

[enochsea7]

If chest is 12" X 24" X 24" it is 6912 cubic inches or 4838 lbs

Wow, yea i knew it was really heavy but never took the time to calculate it like this. This is an eye opener for sure. Can you imagine recovering 4838 lbs of gold? That's currently worth $94,632,140.68 !!!
Talk about party time baby!!!
and considering that... Hmmm, yea I probably wouldn't reveal it to a living soul.

 

[enochsea7]

I admit: a few times some pictures surface of piles of gold bars someone says were Yamashita's found goodies. But when you go to correspond with the person who's sharing that/those photos on T'net, it's invariably not THEIR find. They just got the pix from somewhere else (typically a National Enquirer type news rag from the Philippines, can't doubt that, right ?).

Yeah you can see some really interesting images online of people's recovered treasure but don't expect anyone going out of their way to prove to you that they've personally recovered anything. Obviously in the Philippines your life means nothing if anyone finds out you have something like that in your possession.

This is one of my favorites from the Treasurenow.com website. They sell those LRLs that you're so in love with so I'm sure it will convince you .

You can see the Philippines news article in the back and I don't know about you but...

That gleaming gold bar sure looks real to me!!!

View attachment 1537531

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Wow, yea i knew it was really heavy but never took the time to calculate it like this. This is an eye opener for sure. Can you imagine recovering 4838 lbs of gold? That's currently worth $94,632,140.68 !!!
Talk about party time baby!!!
and considering that... Hmmm, yea I probably wouldn't reveal it to a living soul.

Correct. The treasures in the Philippines are beyond dispute. Each story and lead and cave and squiggle on rock is indisputably another $94 million dollar treasure ! In fact, at the mere mention of sums of money like that, a person would be FOOLISH not to believe and hunt for it.

And yes: The reason none can ever be substantiated, is that none of them are ever posting show & tell. But rest assured, they're all true ! No proof needed. Nothing to prove. They're just going to laugh at the skeptic all the way to the bank.

After all, I agree: If I found $94 million in gold, I too would probably not post it on today's find section. Hence what more proof of the truth of the treasures do we need than this ? Silence and invisibility is the UTMOST proof that anyone needs to prove the existence of the treasure. The more silence, and more lack of show & tell, simply goes to show the truth all-the-more.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Treasurenow.com website. They sell those LRLs that ...

Great website. Can't argue with the photograph of the fellow posing next to gold and silver bars, coins, etc... Photographs don't lie after all. Wave them around enough likely looking ruins, dig enough holes, and you'll eventually find metal somewhere

The website even gears their sales to: Philippines, Greece, & Middle east (locations/cultures prone to believe in the wands).

 

[enochsea7]

Photographs don't lie after all.

You already found those gold coins man. That's awesome. Just up your game a little bit and you could find something substantial. As a treasure hunter we kind of have to believe something exists without ever really seeing concrete evidence of it, right? For such a skeptic you've found some really cool stuff that you had no concrete reason to believe was even there. Imagine if you actually started going after something bigger than coins... Just a thought.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You already found those gold coins man. That's awesome. Just up your game a little bit and you could find something substantial. As a treasure hunter we kind of have to believe something exists without ever really seeing concrete evidence of it, right? For such a skeptic you've found some really cool stuff that you had no concrete reason to believe was even there. Imagine if you actually started going after something bigger that coins... Just a thought.

15 gold coins so far. But the method is not "belief". The method is "skepticism". Because when I size up a spot to hunt , or a treasure lead to follow, I'm asking skeptical kill-joy questions. So that my time is spent chasing the LIKELY leads. Not the leads with "more plausible explanations".

So the success is attributed to a skeptical eye. Not a believing eye.

Yes I've never found a tame cache though. Found several when commissioned by next of kin, etc... Was next to some friends when one found a cache . Accidental, just digging out a large hubcap sized signal. Durned those hubcabs anyhow, haha . But have not personally found a tame cache yet.

However, I haven't focused my efforts on that venue. But If I were to focus on that type md'ing, I would exercise a skeptical eye to any story or lead.

 

[enochsea7]

So the success is attributed to a skeptical eye. Not a believing eye. I've never found a tame cache though.

Maybe the reason you haven't found that cache yet is actually the lack of belief in your formula. Add a little belief and maybe it will equal a large cache. I'm getting that idea from all the extremely successful people in history who have said many things but always agree on one core truth...

"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve." -Napoleon Hill

But yea a healthy dose of skepticism can go a very long way and is definitely a requirement. Either way, 15 gold coins is quite a record man... Most people never even come close to that.

 

[XLV]

HELLO ........lets use some logic ,,,,,in coastal area close to the sea ( u ever dig ) water and bedrock most of the time limit u to about grave depth ,,,,,most treasures ever found in history big or small are less then this distance ......in the mountains u can have the same problems plus the soil harder ,,,,,so a "normal person" has no reason to dig any deeper .....xxxx.""""the biggest problem would be finding were u buried it when u returned """""" xxxxx.....so landmarks are your most important thing .....your box (stupid there was 10s of thousands of them ) them stones seen many just like them(mean nothing ) ....with no landmarks i wont even listen to the story ....1944 roads.... today 2018 might not be there....many bridges , trees , buildings to gone .....i cant remember places ive been 10 years ago hunting u try finding a box of gold 8 miles off a road in a jungle 20 years later that u buried """ good luck"

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Maybe the reason you haven't found that cache yet is actually the lack of belief in your formula. .....

Perhaps. But that would be an argument from silence, eh ? I would need to hunt with no skepticism, to compare "before and after" results. And would also need to be into the venue of hunting in the first place. At present, if I dug a cache, it would be by accident while coin/relic hunting. But to truly be into the venue that we're speaking of (Yamashita, etc....) is different venue of hunting.

..... "Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve." -Napoleon Hill...

Not an accurate statement. It self-implodes upon logical scrutiny. The mind can only do what is POSSIBLE to achieve. It can not do things that are impossible. For example: If there is no treasure in a certain cave, then no amount of "believing" is going to change that. Right ?

.... But yea a healthy dose of skepticism can go a very long way and is definitely a requirement. Either way, 15 gold coins is quite a record man... Most people never even come close to that.

All from stage stops, beach storms, old-town demolition tearouts, etc... I know that there's a few guys in the USA with higher totals. But not many. Perhaps 5 in the USA have gotten 15 or more. And 3 of those guys got them from a single fabled fort site. And there's a few in Europe that have exceeded this # as well.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

HELLO ........lets use some logic ,,,,,in coastal area close to the sea ( u ever dig ) water and bedrock most of the time limit u to about grave depth ,,,,,most treasures ever found in history big or small are less then this distance ..........

Correct. The depths that the cultural lore puts these fables at ("6 to 9 meters" etc....) are often time simply impossible for the landscape. You'd hit bedrock, water tables, etc..... Not to mention the fact that ... as said before: The object is equally hidden whether 1 ft. or 20 ft. down.

However, this will all fall on deaf ears. The believers will find some remote way that digging through solid bedrock was possible (slave labor, etc...). Or going deeper than the water table (pumps to get the water out, etc....). And they'll dream up some crazy motive the persons had to bury it that deep in the first place (because they predicted sophisticated metal detectors to come 70+ yrs. later). No matter how many "more plausible" explanations you give them, it falls on deaf ears.

 

[XLV]

enochsea7 do u want learn ?? open your mind up .....somebody once told me they have a site in the mountain area of Zamboanga ....i ask one question what barangay (town area) i didnt want to hear nothing else .... i travel there looked around and returned .....i told the person not possible ,,,, but there was 1000 troops there he told me .....i told him no treasure never buried there .....how do u know because i never bury one there ....the place was same as in 1944 and there were no landmarks .....u never find if u did return ....the treasures that are real near a bridge , road , building , trail , river , close to ports or the sea ... .......no your go back 5 miles up 2000 foot grade with 500lbs dig 30 feet past the water line 10 feet threw the bedrock in the jungle and forget where u put it right because your lost ....i might be dunk but am not that stupid

 

[XLV]

remember in 1944 most roads leading into the mountains didnt exist or they were foot trails u carry your equipment for the war .....this aint no tourist sites today 2018 ,,,, look on u tube cebu 1945 surrender thats real filmed live 100% look what they had to carry,,, look they are all walking even the general ,,,, look at the jungle ......that cebu millions of people today thats all 100% gone u tell me where that was filmed ?? no landmarks

 

[enochsea7]

Dear Tom in CA and "666",

As you can see, I've been working my ass off all alone to dig a hole that has reached only 15 feet deep in a 5 month time frame. My body is covered in scars from all the "pigsa" (staph infections) I've had to endure from digging in this tropical soil and yet as you can see I have not given up. To tell both of you honestly, I've heard everything you guys are saying a few hundred times or more already. But I have what are to my mind very good reasons to believe the target I'm digging for is actually a reality and not some pigment of my imagination produced by wishful thinking/dreams of living a paradisal lifestyle. Both of you obviously have very valuable experience in the field of treasure hunting and I want to extend my utmost gratitude for taking the time to share it with me in an effort to bring what you see as enlightenment to my mind. With that being said, I have had my fair share of experiences also. Am I an expert in Yamashita treasure hunting? Not by a long shot... But I'm also comfortable saying that I am by no means a newbie.

I started this thread to try and get some idea of how much deeper I'll have to dig to reach my current target. Not to debate back and forth for infinity about whether my current target is even there in the first place. I'm going to be frank with you guys about the possible target depths one could be dealing with here in the Philippines... Both of you are simply wrong. But I wish you all the best using the perspective that you both so firmly believe encompasses the extent of reality. From here on I would just prefer not to engage in any more debate about whether or not my target is real. Once again thank you both very much for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Do you see the self-imploding contradiction here ? See if you can catch it:

.... I started this thread to try and get some idea of how much deeper I'll have to dig to reach my current target. ... .....

Ok, this implies that a target is there. Right ? If so, then by all means: "A little deeper". Or "a little more to the right". Or .. ." a little more to the left" etc....

.... . Not to debate back and forth for infinity about whether my current target is even there in the first place. .....

Wait ... isn't that the whole point ? If there isn't a target there, then IT WON'T MATTER how deep, or to the left, or to the right you go. So it seems to me that this is of utmost importance to consider .

 

[XLV]

ive seen more then 50 holes dug up close...... 12 feet deep or more three as big as a big pond and some over 50 feet deep up to 80 feet .....one in san jose (negros ) 2 in san carlos .... all had water in them .......i just laughed .......i seen a story in bohol like yours ....only problem no hospital ship showed up only 700 dead bodies floated up oct 26 1944 .....no landmarks .....no roads ,,,,, no ships ,,,,,,no ports ,,,,, maybe aliens bought the treasure and dug that deep good luck and have a safe trip to china

 

[enochsea7]

ive seen more then 50 holes dug up close...... 12 feet deep or more three as big as a big pond and some over 50 feet deep up to 80 feet .....one in san jose (negros ) 2 in san carlos .... all had water in them .......i just laughed .......i seen a story in bohol like yours ....only problem no hospital ship showed up only 700 dead bodies floated up oct 26 1944 .....no landmarks .....no roads ,,,,, no ships ,,,,,,no ports ,,,,, maybe aliens bought the treasure and dug that deep good luck and have a safe trip to china

yea but whether you've seen 50 or 1000 unsuccessful operations it doesn't give you the capability of conclusively saying "yes" or "no" the target is real based on the information ive given you. you keep talking about landmarks, how do you know there aren't any landmarks around here? your mind is rushing to negative without any real evidence. you should stop and think maybe thats why you've never been successful in this game in the first place. should i stop what im doing and throw down my shovel just because you say im digging to China? ive gotten a hit here with over five different types of detection technology. two of the detectors were deep penetrating pulse induction. Tom in CA says im a loony toon for believing in mental dowsing. well guess what Tom, ALBERT EINSTEIN disagrees with you.

sometimes people find it painful to accept that someone else can be successful at something they gave their best shot at and failed. its an ego thing that most of us men are struggling with all the time so its understandable. no offense to either of you but at this point i see absolutely no good reason at all to discontinue this operation. i do however wish you both the best in all future treasure hunting endeavors. take care