How deep?

[enochsea7]

Just wondering how deep someone should expect a smaller sized Yamashita treasure to be buried. For example just say a medium sized treasure chest around 1 ft x 2 ft containing gold bars and some gemstones. Would the Japanese have taken the time to bury an item of that size any deeper than 25 ft? Any information gained either by rumors or personal experience is appreciated. Just curious how much time and investment would be involved in recovering something of that size

Example from google images:
View attachment 1536689

btw, can anyone translate the text on this chest? this came from a Philippines news article. it was already empty when they found it in a cave so im curious about what the writing says

 

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[dts52]

"Live ordnance- Handle with care"?
Just a guess.
HH
dts

 

[enochsea7]

"Live ordnance- Handle with care"?
Just a guess.
HH
dts

thats a possibility. yea the news article said some treasure hunters had been illegally excavating the cave but no one knew if they had actually recovered anything. i guess an empty ordinance box could have been used to stash away treasures. personally i would have skeeted with the bars and came back for the box also . thanks for the insight

 

[enochsea7]

Here are some signs from a dig. These were found at 13 ft. Any educated guesses about how close the target is based on these markers? With the signs growing more obvious like this, does it mean the target is well within reach?

A perfect heart and diamond
View attachment 1537066

angles and curves too perfect to be naturally occuring
View attachment 1537069
View attachment 1537141

red coloring agent on the front of the most perfect markers, but not applied to the back sides. seemingly left as an extra clue that the stones are in fact man-made
View attachment 1537071
View attachment 1537074

can anyone translate this script?
View attachment 1537090

same script in negative
View attachment 1537093

any input, agreeing or opposing opinions, educated or uneducated guesses, outside of the box perspectives are greatly appreciated

POLL:
https://vote.pollcode.com/62444841

 

[smokeythecat]

I would expect a treasure chest to be no more than 10 foot deep. I have found two coin caches in my lifetime and saw a buddy dig a third. None were more than a foot and a half deep.

 

[enochsea7]

I would expect a treasure chest to be no more than 10 foot deep. I have found two coin caches in my lifetime and saw a buddy dig a third. None were more than a foot and a half deep.

wow, congrats man... did those happen to be coin caches found in the Philippines or elsewhere? one of the things that i suspect may perhaps make a difference in possible depths here is the fact that the Japanese had enslaved tens of thousands of POWs to dig their holes. it wouldn't have been a problem to dig down really deep to bury even smaller items. but the current depth is 15 ft on this particular excavation so here's to hoping you're expectation is accurate

 

[smokeythecat]

In the US. There were not many coins in each. A set of about 8 colonial coppers and two small caches of US silvers one I think about 32, the other 75 or so.

 

[enochsea7]

In the US. There were not many coins in each. A set of about 8 colonial coppers and two small caches of US silvers one I think about 32, the other 75 or so.

oh i see... just checked out your banner finds btw, very nice. in this particular case we're probably talking about a larger cache of gold items in the form of coins or bullion since it would have been looted from the treasuries of all the asian nations the Japanese had invaded at the time. so im guessing its fair to say they probably buried it much deeper. but your insight is very much appreciated my friend

 

[smokeythecat]

Ground penetrating radar would be the only way to go. It's very expensive.

 

[XLV]

over the last 15 year all the ones i believe or seen some 1 foot some 4 foot the deepest 7 foot ....just figure this water table near coastal place big factor seen that many times ,,, many digs one troop in hard soil hand full of one kilo bars not deep ,,,, a chest like that full of oro maybe a army would dig grave depth ,,no proof only stories of 5 feet in the mountains ,,no detector of that time could spot it ,,,,all the times water was involved never seen anything found .....1944 no pumps no electric no fuel the normal .....they even stopped at the water table when building bomb shelters when they had all of the above ... so the bomb shelters near the coast are above ground down to the water table ....(aka water trap bs ) u think about this fact a few them are in dumaguete they build them to protect there great pilots ....so stories of digging below the water table (millions of years ) are all crazy .....seen many holes up to 50' with water nothing ever found tens of thousands spent ......and remember your only allowed to metal detect on the beach no treasure hunting allowed so no one ever shows u what they found never

 

[enochsea7]

over the last 15 year all the ones i believe or seen some 1 foot some 4 foot the deepest 7 foot ....just figure this water table near coastal place big factor seen that many times ,,, many digs one troop in hard soil hand full of one kilo bars not deep ,,,, a chest like that full of oro maybe a army would dig grave depth ,,no proof only stories of 5 feet in the mountains ,,no detector of that time could spot it ,,,,all the times water was involved never seen anything found .....1944 no pumps no electric no fuel the normal .....they even stopped at the water table when building bomb shelters when they had all of the above ... so the bomb shelters near the coast are above water u think about this fact a few them are in dumaguete they build them to protect there great pilots ....so stories of digging below the water table are all crazy .....seen many holes up to 50' with water nothing ever found thousands spent ......and remember your only allowed to metal detect on the beach no treasure hunting allowed so no one ever shows u what they found never

some people say that sometimes there are "water traps" that cause the water table to rise much higher than it was naturally. do you have experience with anything like that happening? thanks for this information

 

[XLV]

only mother nature can change the water table ....in luzon it hasnt changed much in the last 100 years maybe a foot ....take my word if u could not build a simple bomb shelter under ground because of the water that shows you.... they could not change the water table up or down ....and yes ive had this problem on the beach once i hit water table i stop one foot below .....remember global warming the seas have risen just look at the coconut tree line or ask people over 90 from the ww2 time they tell u water table of 74 yrs ago

 

[XLV]

what island was that ammo box found luzon ??(if the box was filled with oro it be impossible to travel in the mountains with and would probably come apart ) oro 3 to 5 x heavier then ammo ....it be the weight of a big car ....and your stones maybe?? but u need more then that to find anything

 

[enochsea7]

what island was that ammo box found luzon ??(if the box was filled with oro it be impossible to travel in the mountains with and would probably come apart ) oro 3 to 5 x heavier then ammo ....it be the weight of a big car ....and your stones maybe?? but u need more then that to find anything

yea i think it said somewhere in Luzon. you could be right about it not being strong enough to carry gold in. maybe they filled it later? guess we'll never know

good stuff. the insight about my stones is appreciated also. ill let your "maybe" opinion reinforce my "certainly" opinion

the maps posted by the good fellow on this thread show me that the Japanese were in fact using a secret code. id love to find someone that could translate my stone. i used a pendulum chart to try the psychic method and it simply spelled "pointer". since it was pointing straight down im hoping that's accurate.

thanks again

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... in this particular case we're probably talking about a larger cache of gold items in the form of coins or bullion since it.... so im guessing its fair to say they probably buried it much deeper.....

enochsea7 why is this your conclusion ? Why is it that ... the bigger the treasure, the deeper it must, of necessity , be ? When did this become a "given" ? Or let me put it to you this way: If someone buries something to hide it, and covers the top, and fluffs it up: Then how is the object ANY MORE "hidden" whether it's 2 ft. deep versus 20 ft. deep ? EITHER WAY it's equally hidden. Right ? So why does the "size" of a treasure have anything to do with depth they chose ?

And wouldn't the ultimate intention be to come back and retrieve it someday ? Then why oh why oh why does someone bury it 20 ft. deep ? I challenge you to go out and dig a hole even 5 or 7 ft. deep, where the space at the bottom is big enough to put that box in your pix. In just a few hours, you will begin to see that it's not easy.

Example: There's a certain pocket cove beach near me, where bedrock is about 5 or 6 ft. deep. And we make sport of digging down to the bedrock, to find coins (recreational fumble fingers stuff). And let me tell you : EVEN IN SOFT SAND it take hours to get down that deep. Because the sides of the hole have to be exponentially bigger at the top, lest the sides of the hole cave in as we dig. So, for example, to get 5 sq. feet of bottom space, at the bottom of the hole, then the TOP of the hole needs to be more than 10 ft. across. See ?

I think the notion that the "bigger the treasure" = "the deeper it must be", is nothing more than folklore and superstition. Forgive me for being blunt.

And as for your rocks in post #4, why can't those just be randomly occurring shapes ? For example: If you lie on your back and stare at the passing clouds for an hour: You will eventually make out the shape of a smiley face, a bunny, a big dipper, etc.... So too if you look at 1000 rocks, you will subconsciously start to see uncanny shapes in a bunch of them. Me thinks you're reading too much into randomly occurring objects and folklore legend stories.

 

[enochsea7]

great post, thanks bro. you have some really good questions. ill just respond in the best way i can

why is this your conclusion ? Why is it that ... the bigger the treasure, the deeper it must, of necessity , be ? When did this become a "given" ? Or let me put it to you this way: If someone buries something to hide it, and covers the top, and fluffs it up: Then how is the object ANY MORE "hidden" whether it's 2 ft. deep versus 20 ft. deep ? EITHER WAY it's equally hidden. Right ? So why does the "size" of a treasure have anything to do with depth they chose ?

I guess one reason would be because if the item is deeper its much harder to stumble upon unintentionally. You can see how here in the Philippines everyone and their grand pappy was a "treasure hunter" at one point in their lives because of all the stories they've heard about people getting mega rich overnight from accidentally or intentionally finding treasure. Maybe the Japanese foresaw that so they wanted to make it as difficult as possible for the treasures to be recovered and spent more time doing so whenever they had the opportunity. Bro think of it, they had tens of thousands of POWs enslaved. They could have easily gotten down to 20+ ft within perhaps a day or two. If you have the ability to do that and its no sweat off your back then why wouldn't you bury it deeper? Do you watch "Curse of Oak Island"? I truly believe they're going to hit the vault in the next couple of episodes but you can see how deep and difficult it was to get there. And its becoming more and more clear that slaves were used to dig the hole.

And wouldn't the ultimate intention be to come back and retrieve it someday ? Then why oh why oh why does someone bury it 20 ft. deep ? I challenge you to go out and dig a hole even 5 or 7 ft. deep, where the space at the bottom is big enough to put that box in your pix. In just a few hours, you will begin to see that it's not easy.

Check out this dig... Now this is a totally solo operation. I'm down to 15 ft. Just getting that deep has taken 5 months already. The shovel became totally worthless at 6 ft. I have to use a mining pick and my bare hands to excavate the heavily compacted mixture of clay, dirt, sand and gravel. So I agree with you that its insanely difficult...



but again, they had an army of slaves that they didn't give a flying f--k about. They were so disposable to them that most of the time the slaves who dug the hole were buried alive in the same hole. Let's see, an army of slaves living in constant fear of getting their heads sliced off with a samurai sword, yea i think they were motivated enough to dig VERY deep.

And as for your rocks in post #4, why can't those just be randomly occurring shapes ? For example: If you lie on your back and stare at the passing clouds for an hour: You will eventually make out the shape of a smiley face, a bunny, a big dipper, etc.... So too if you look at 1000 rocks, you will subconsciously start to see uncanny shapes in a bunch of them. Me thinks you're reading too much into randomly occurring objects and folklore legend stories.

i hear you about the stones. i guess its possible they could be natural also. which is exactly why i posted them here in the first place because i know you're right about staring at the clouds. but let me ask you something... if you had used five different metal detectors (combined retail value $20k+), all were different types of detection technology and different brand names to confirm a target location, would the idea that these stones could be man-made become more believable to you if they were found while digging directly above that target? and what if they were shapes that have actually been described before in a Japanese treasure code book? answer that question for me with a pure mind.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

enochsea7, you are a good sport to engage in fair conversation. Thanx !

This now goes to multiple levels of depth (pun not intended). So to answer your post, will take several responses. Which I will do over the course of several replies separately.

.... I guess one reason would be because if the item is deeper its much harder to stumble upon unintentionally. ....

This defies logic. As I pointed out before: An object is equally hidden, whether 2 ft. deep versus 20 ft. deep. At NEITHER depth does someone have any more chance of "stumbling" on to it unintentionally.

.... ... Maybe the Japanese foresaw that so they wanted to make it as difficult as possible for the treasures to be recovered and spent more time doing so whenever they had the opportunity......

This would imply that they foresaw the invention and concept of metal detectors. And to whatever extent they heard of or knew of the primitive detectors then available , those early detectors were clumsy and could scarcely pick up a hubcap sized item at over a foot.

..... Bro think of it, they had tens of thousands of POWs enslaved. They could have easily gotten down to 20+ ft within perhaps a day or two....

Sure. If we are talking "was it possible to dig 20 ft. deep with slave labor?", then the answer is "yes, I agree". But just because something is feasible, does not mean that: "Ergo, it happened". This is the same sort of logic leap the Oak Island discussion veers into : If you ever try to point out to the believers on how insanely difficult their theories would be , they do the same thing you just did: They find some conceivable way, or some remote example of how-it-could be possible. Eg.: they point to Cornish miners who dug super deep tunnels in Europe for mining (never mind that it took years to do). Or they point out the magnificent pyramids of Egypt, all built by hand labor (never mind that it took decades to build). And in each case, the mere fact that they could dream up *some* conceivable super human feat of effort , then to them, that means "It ... of necessity ... therefore happened".

I don't deny that man power could dig 20 ft. deep holes. But why ? And wouldn't the persons hiding it intend to come back some day to retrieve ? Why make the task insanely difficult ? As I said in the beginning: It is equally hidden no matter the depth. As long as the top is covered.

.... Do you watch "Curse of Oak Island"? I truly believe they're going to hit the vault in the next couple of episodes but you can see how deep and difficult it was to get there. And its becoming more and more clear that slaves were used to dig the hole....

enochsea7: It is quite telling that you are a subscriber to the Oak Island story too. The faith required to believe in that, is akin to the faith needed for the Yamashita legend IMHO. Notice that it's NEVER that the Oak Island treasure *isn't* there . It's always just a little deeper. Or a little more to the left. A little more to the right, etc... And any obstacle or hardship the hunters encounter, is an ingeniously cleverly devised booby trap impediment dreamed up all those years or centuries ago, right ? Exactly the same conclusions I see time & again on the T'net Yamashita threads .

And random squiggle you see anywhere is a clever treasure symbol, right ? So too with the Yamashita legend. No matter how many objections could be raised as to the unlikeliness of it, the faithful will point to some extreme way, that strange difficult things *could* have happened.

So too could I dream up a possible scenario that I could ride a tricycle backwards from California to New York. Is it possible ? SURE. But the better question is: Is it LIKELY ? No.

Do you see how all of this STARTS with the premise that "there is a treasure here". Then any other fact or skeptical objection is merely molded around that starting premise. Any hardship or difficulty could be explained away by xx number of slaves, and xx number of days to dig. And then kill all the slaves so there's no witnesses, eh ? Then pepper the area with clues and symbols and markers to point to the thing you just knocked yourself silly hiding so-no-one could find it, eh ?

I say this with utmost respect. No badgering. I'm just fascinated by how the human mind reacts, when it comes to treasure stories.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... and what if they were shapes that have actually been described before in a Japanese treasure code book? answer that question for me with a pure mind.

I do not know what "Japanese codes" you see on the rocks/ stones in your pictures. They just look like random (albeit uncanny shapes) rocks to me. If you care to shed light on the "treasure code book" and symbols that match to rocks you find, let me know.

But you've got to remember something: Mankind's nature never changes. Just as we leave marks of our presence on the landscape now (art, graffiti, carvings, etc...) so too did mankind in history. Landscapes are FILLED with squiggles, marks, etchings, designs, etc... wherever mankind habitates for any length of time.

For example: I can go out into my own backyard, and I bet that I can find some squiggles or lines that match up to marks in your Japanese treasure code book. I can find perfect circles (the paver stones). I can find ceramic frog and turtle shapes (the decorations in our gold fish pond). I can find writings (the labels on the lawn furniture). I can find rectangles (the shape of the fence boards). Etc.. etc... etc.... Yet none have anything to do with treasure.

 

[enochsea7]

If you care to shed light on the "treasure code book" and symbols that match to rocks you find, let me know.

These came from the THAPI code book, a collection of supposed Japanese treasure signs and their meanings
View attachment 1537224
View attachment 1537225
View attachment 1537226
View attachment 1537227

But you didn't answer the most important question. You're obviously a treasure hunter or you wouldn't be here. That tells me that you have at least some level of belief in the magnetic reactions that take place when you pass your metal detector over a metal object. If you had confirmed your target using the metal detectors listed below, would the stones start jumping out at you more as possible clues?

Jeohunter 3D Metal Detector
HURRICANE BLUE RADAR GEOSCANNER
https://www.whiteselectronics.com/product/tm-808-2/?lang=gb
Rayfinder long range locator gold detector
gold dowsing pendulum CRONOS
+mental dowsing w/ copper L-rods

About Oak Island... Did you see all those things they were sucking out of the hole at like 140 ft deep? Human bones from two different people? Pottery dating back to the 1600-1700s? And they get a massive hit at the same depth when they sent the pulse induction metal detector down the casing. I bet you they find something very significant bro. We'll see...

Yea i mean obviously i could be totally delusional and i accept that as a possibility. Not yet willing to give up but I appreciate you taking the time to give me your perspective. You've been kind of a treasure hunter psychiatrist for me here . all the best bro.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

These came from the THAPI code book, a collection of supposed Japanese treasure signs and their meanings
View attachment 1537224
View attachment 1537225
View attachment 1537226
View attachment 1537227

...

Ok. But would accept the challenge, that if I left my front yard , and walked a block's circumference from my house: That I could probably find the same symbols somewhere else, as well ? This is the psychological trick of "selective memory" aka "memory bias". You have a symbol that is said to mean something. Then you walk about in an area looking with 1000 symbols from your book in mind. It's reasonable that 3 or 4 will match things you see randomly. In the same way , as I said, if you lie on your back and look at the passing clouds, your mind will make out uncanny shapes in the clouds.

... when you pass your metal detector over a metal object. If you had confirmed your target using the metal detectors...

I believe this will have a more plausible explanation. Consider the following true story: I took a fellow out, who asked me for help with his detector (he was just learning ... new to the hobby). We were hunting around some old WWII barracks at an abandoned army base near us. For about 10 minutes, he got onto a giant hole at the corner of a barracks building. But no matter how deep he got, the signal was there. Finally, in disgust, he called me over to check the hole. In 5 seconds I could see his mistake: He was getting a signal off the corner of the building . That was simply the metal ribbing/flashing piece of the corner of the structure where he was swinging. He was unaware that the edge of the coil is sensitive to metal too. So he just assumed that the "beep" was something BELOW the coil.

Now please ... don't get "lost in the example". That's just as example to show that persons who think they're getting a signal, that it's entirely possible they're mis-interpretting or doing something wrong.

....
Jeohunter 3D Metal Detector
HURRICANE BLUE RADAR GEOSCANNER
https://www.whiteselectronics.com/product/tm-808-2/?lang=gb
Rayfinder long range locator gold detector
gold dowsing pendulum CRONOS
+mental dowsing w/ copper L-rods
....

The fact that you're relying on long range locators and dowsing rods, is a red flag that you are relying on hocus pocus snake oil. If you care to start a 2nd thread to discuss the legitimacy of those methods, I will be more than happy to engage. Just give me the link. Or you can just go to Dankowski forum (google it) and do some key word searches there to see where it's been discussed. That forum is frequented by scientist minded engineer types, who chime in on the subject. Hence the mere fact you list those in the list of methods where you got an indication, is telling.

.... About Oak Island... Did you see all those things they were sucking out of the hole at like 140 ft deep? Human bones from two different people? Pottery dating back to the 1600-1700s? And they get a massive hit at the same depth when they sent the pulse induction metal detector down the casing. I bet you they find something very significant bro. We'll see....

Hollywood is FILLED with sensationalism. The show wouldn't sell if they didn't have cliff-hangers , "clues", etc... I can explain away everything (the pulse detector that was sent down to scan the walls, blah blah ). But it's all been done before. And ... oddly ... you're using "oak island" as a reference to the likeliness of Yamashita. Yet ... ironically .... NOTHING'S EVER BEEN FOUND on Oak Island. So that would seem to the LAST story/TV show you'd want to use, in defending the Yamashita likeliness

But on the contrary: It just shows the mental tricks the human psyche plays on itself when it comes to treasure. No one willing cast a critical eye on the factors of the story. Why ? Because no one wants to be "left out". Thus critical thinking is put aside. Any shred of hope (as long as it's theoretically "possible") is put out at the forefront. As if the burden of proof becomes on the skeptic to prove it's NOT there. Rather than the believer trying to prove it IS there. The old saying is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. So the burden of proof isn't on the skeptic to explain away the extreme odds of various crazy feats or historical intentions. The burden of proof would seem to be on the believer to prove it.

You too have been more than fair. I do not mean any of this in a "badgering" way. I am just fascinated when it comes to the legend stuff, and the psychology surrounding them.