Honestly?!? Used for what?

[SportsmanAll]

Okay everyone. I have seen a few smallll tips. But this one is crazy. Other than mice, (which I feel like they would have used sticks or rocks) what would these be used for?! Too small to be effective for fish and birds right?! Thoughts?

 

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[quito]

-On the contrary. I hunt with a traditional longbow with cedar arrows. With glue in insert. So my options of all the little upgraded tips isn’t there. That is when I’m not hunting with my atlatl.

Instead of assuming I don’t know what I’m talking about you could keep in mind this whole topic was things these tips “could” be used for.

Perhaps you could expound on your knife comment the end of your statement.

-Educate don’t undermine

Well, now that I know you have all this experience, I am really surprised you are so amazed. Maybe you should try the smaller point option I bet you DO have.

Also, I am surprised with all your traditional type hunting implements and experience that you said couldn't wrap your head around the capabilities one of the most common sized arrowhead found in the mid-west, upper plains and other regions.

I understand the topic, didn't I say they would kill buffalo and about everything they had running around back then? Maybe you can tell me where I went out of bounds?

As far as the knife comment, I thought that was pretty obvious, but here goes anyway......Many don't know the difference from an exhausted or small knife form from an arrowhead. Many often refer to true arrowheads as bird points, and it's often a good indicator of this problem. I know some just call them that, but there are plenty, like you did, who think because of their size that killing little critters was their main use, to small for bigger stuff.

With the bird point, mouse point mentality you could be trying to fling things the size of exhausted knives instead of arrowheads with your bow..... (Dart points, are another matter.)

How successful have you been with your traditional equipment on the larger game?

I do try to educate, and I know you just learned something big too. (tiny bird/mouse points were used to kill very big game)

I will try to undermine bad information though.

 

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[rock]

Here I find them tiny ones to mine are 1000 b.p. to historic time lines. Seems like the uglier they are the newer they are. These 2 I found this year and are probably 200 B.P.

 

[SportsmanAll]

Well, now that I know you have all this experience, I am really surprised you are so amazed. Maybe you should try the smaller point option I bet you DO have.

Also, I am surprised with all your traditional type hunting implements and experience that you said couldn't wrap your head around the capabilities one of the most common sized arrowhead found in the mid-west, upper plains and other regions.

I understand the topic, didn't I say they would kill buffalo and about everything they had running around back then? Maybe you can tell me where I went out of bounds?

As far as the knife comment, I thought that was pretty obvious, but here goes anyway......Many don't know the difference from an exhausted or small knife form from an arrowhead. Many often refer to true arrowheads as bird points, and it's often a good indicator of this problem. I know some just call them that, but there are plenty, like you did, who think because of their size that killing little critters was their main use, to small for bigger stuff.

With the bird point, mouse point mentality you could be trying to fling things the size of exhausted knives instead of arrowheads with your bow..... (Dart points, are another matter.)

How successful have you been with your traditional equipment on the larger game?

I do try to educate, and I know you just learned something big too. (tiny bird/mouse points were used to kill very big game)

I will try to undermine bad information though.

Interesting thought on the knife....would explain a lot! I have harvest multiple deer and turkey. I use 125 grain snuffer 3 blade broadheads. And missed lots of other stuff! Unfortunately my atlatl kills have all been smaller game. Rabbits and other stuff.

 

[quito]

Interesting thought on the knife....would explain a lot! I have harvest multiple deer and turkey. I use 125 grain snuffer 3 blade broadheads. And missed lots of other stuff! Unfortunately my atlatl kills have all been smaller game. Rabbits and other stuff.

i wrongly assumed you were using stone points on your weapons.

 

[IAMZIM]

I agree with quito. My family owns land on the Blackfeet reservation here in Montana. We have documented rock pylons that were used on buffalo drives to help herd them into killing sites, which on our property is two small gullies. I have 5 Avonlea points from that kill site that are smaller than the one you have in your pic. I don't know for sure the logistics of if these were points that actually killed the buffalo, but they were absolutely used on them, at the very least to "goad" them to the direction the hunters wanted them to go. At least, that is what some of the tribal members familiar with these sites have told me. Cool find btw! I like anything made of obsidian!

 

[Charl]

You want to see some really tiny points? Lol...

These are modern, mind you, but the owner of Lithic Casting Lab does offer that some much smaller then average prehistoric points might not have been for practical use.

MINIATURE POINTS

 

[SportsmanAll]

I agree with quito. My family owns land on the Blackfeet reservation here in Montana. We have documented rock pylons that were used on buffalo drives to help herd them into killing sites, which on our property is two small gullies. I have 5 Avonlea points from that kill site that are smaller than the one you have in your pic. I don't know for sure the logistics of if these were points that actually killed the buffalo, but they were absolutely used on them, at the very least to "goad" them to the direction the hunters wanted them to go. At least, that is what some of the tribal members familiar with these sites have told me. Cool find btw! I like anything made of obsidian!

Ooh interesting point. An ancient cattle prod! Very cool! Yeah I wish I had more stone options. Lots of black glass here!

 

[SportsmanAll]

You want to see some really tiny points? Lol...

These are modern, mind you, but the owner of Lithic Casting Lab does offer that some much smaller then average prehistoric points might not have been for practical use.

MINIATURE POINTS

View attachment 1574514

[emoji47]

 

[quito]

[emoji47]

I believe some weren’t for practical use. I knew a guy who found a child’s bow 15 inches I believe, and I assume it also had some arrows for it at some time.

 

[RGINN]

On the southern plains, we know them as Washita Points and they were used for everything during the Plains Village farmer era. I have seen one embedded in a deer hip bone. At a burial at the McLemore site in Caddo County, one was found embedded in the neck vertebra of a young female. I think they provided a little better penetration, were maybe easier to flake out, and made material that came from far away go farther. Where I came from, their bows were mostly made from Bois de Arc (Osage Orange) wood. I don't know what the pull actually was on them, but I heard stories that they could shoot one completely through a buffalo. Might be a frontier exaggeration.

 

[SportsmanAll]

On the southern plains, we know them as Washita Points and they were used for everything during the Plains Village farmer era. I have seen one embedded in a deer hip bone. At a burial at the McLemore site in Caddo County, one was found embedded in the neck vertebra of a young female. I think they provided a little better penetration, were maybe easier to flake out, and made material that came from far away go farther. Where I came from, their bows were mostly made from Bois de Arc (Osage Orange) wood. I don't know what the pull actually was on them, but I heard stories that they could shoot one completely through a buffalo. Might be a frontier exaggeration.

Yes I’ve read that some of them actually used two bows. One for smaller game with less poundage and one for big game. I have put some time in with knapping obsidian and to get one as thin and worked on both sides is amazing! I know some people might think it would be easy now a Days with all the copper tools, but to use antler and buckskin....they were amazing!

 

[11KBP]

On the southern plains, we know them as Washita Points and they were used for everything during the Plains Village farmer era. I have seen one embedded in a deer hip bone. At a burial at the McLemore site in Caddo County, one was found embedded in the neck vertebra of a young female. I think they provided a little better penetration, were maybe easier to flake out, and made material that came from far away go farther. Where I came from, their bows were mostly made from Bois de Arc (Osage Orange) wood. I don't know what the pull actually was on them, but I heard stories that they could shoot one completely through a buffalo. Might be a frontier exaggeration.

I would say it's not an exaggeration, I have read historic eye witness accounts of arrow penetration going clear through.

One was:

Black Elk, a warrior and medicine man of the Ogalala Sioux and author of Black Elk Speaks, describes in detail bison hunt wherein the first line of assault was comprised of a soldier band riding twenty abreast and prepared to knock anyone from his horse who dared advanced beyond them. About penetration, Black Elk comments: “Some of the arrows would go in up to the feathers, and sometimes those that struck no bones went straight through.

 

[SportsmanAll]

I would say it's not an exaggeration, I have read historic eye witness accounts of arrow penetration going clear through.

One was:

Black Elk, a warrior and medicine man of the Ogalala Sioux and author of Black Elk Speaks, describes in detail bison hunt wherein the first line of assault was comprised of a soldier band riding twenty abreast and prepared to knock anyone from his horse who dared advanced beyond them. About penetration, Black Elk comments: “Some of the arrows would go in up to the feathers, and sometimes those that struck no bones went straight through.

Awesome!