Holmes "Missing" directions

[dustcap]

Will,

Were you there at the Rendezvous when Roger showed us where they found remains of underwear, similar to what Jesse was wearing, in Lion scat?

dustcap

 

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[Al D]

Travis
I don't know if this will be much help, but I have found that the name "First Water" is not always a proper one as it is in the Superstitions.
Many times the name first water just pertained to the first watering place along a specific trail or road.
I wonder if First water was really called that during Holmes time?
Best regards
Alan

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis
I don't know if this will be much help, but I have found that the name "First Water" is not always a proper one as it is in the Superstitions.
Many times the name first water just pertained to the first watering place along a specific trail or road.
I wonder if First water was really called that during Holmes time?
Best regards
Alan

Alan,

You're correct.....It's my opinion that Waltz said go to THE ......."First Water"...... Which would still have been First Water, in my opinion...

Thanks
Travis

 

[Al D]

Travis
I recall that at one time First water was not called that, so , since Waltz directions were starting from Phoenix, it seems to me that the first water would have been closer to phoenix, and not even in the super's.
It has always been a tough clue for me to understand because first water makes sense but second water does not.
It was, is too confusing to ID second water especially for someone who has never been in the mountains.
Best
Alan

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis
I recall that at one time First water was not called that, so , since Waltz directions were starting from Phoenix, it seems to me that the first water would have been closer to phoenix, and not even in the super's.
It has always been a tough clue for me to understand because first water makes sense but second water does not.
It was, is too confusing to ID second water especially for someone who has never been in the mountains.
Best
Alan

Alan

While I agree that the water Waltz was talking about could be closer to Phoenix, logic tells me that since he said his mine was in the Superstitions, the water he's referring to would be the FIRST water you come to in the mountains when coming from Phoenix.

Thanks
Travis

 

[cactusjumper]

Alan

While I agree that the water Waltz was talking about could be closer to Phoenix, logic tells me that since he said his mine was in the Superstitions, the water he's referring to would be the FIRST water you come to in the mountains when coming from Phoenix.

Thanks
Travis

Travis and Alan,

Here's something that fits right in with your conversation.

There used to be an old ranch house very close to the entrance of Hog Canyon. They had a well there. Hog Canyon is where Bark found Julia and Rhiney on there first trip to the Superstitions. He wrote that they attempted to drive their buggy up the canyon.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis and Alan,

Here's something that fits right in with your conversation.

There used to be an old ranch house very close to the entrance of Hog Canyon. They had a well there. Hog Canyon is where Bark found Julia and Rhiney on there first trip to the Superstitions. He wrote that they attempted to drive their buggy up the canyon.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

Ive heard you discuss Hog Canyon several times, but I never realized that there used to be a ranch house there. While its possible that Waltz could have been referring to this place, it seems highly unlikely to me personally, only because Waltz was so secretive. I find it hard to believe that he would stop at a house basically announcing that he was going into the mountains.

Who knows for sure..?
Thanks
Travis

 

[cactusjumper]

Travis,

I'm sure the fact that Julia and Rhiney started their search for the LDM at that spot is pure......coincidence. It's probably also a coincidence that Brownie started his systematic search from the Main Mountain. I have always suspected that Dick Holmes followed Julia and Rhiney on that first trip, and knew where they tried to go.

It may have been that they were trying to find the view of Waltz's drawing. On their second trip, they started from First Water. It's another coincidence that they bracketed the Massacre Grounds between that first and second trip. If they had turned east, into the mountains, they would have seen this:

Can't help but wonder if they would have known where to go from that view.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Al D]

In Glovers book on page 142, there is a reprint of an old map dated 1875.
At a place which appears to be a road is marked,"An old well "
If it was old in 1875, there may have been few who knew about it.
Alan

 

[cactusjumper]

There are a few pages of good reading on the Holmes Manuscript here:

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - Holmes Manuscript

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Some Dude]

To All – and no one in particular,

At the risk of spittin in the stew -> take a look at the Waltz Drawing. I think the best thing you can do is to silhouette the foreground hills, this will help you see “the lay of the land” as Waltz actually drew it. Notice, these are NOT plateaus that Waltz drew, nor are they flat running ridges (for lack of a better description). What Waltz drew was a pointed peak (key concept) and a valley with Weaver’s Needle in the background.

I say this because I’ve seen several “gun sight” photos that people believe is the area that Waltz drew, BUT all of the photos show flat running ridges or plateaus with a dip (or gun sight). I have never seen any photo of what someone thought was the Waltz Drawing that showed a pointed peak – which is what Waltz drew.

Later,
SD

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the is a smaller "gun sight" near pipers camp

 

[cactusjumper]

the is a smaller "gun sight" near pipers camp

Donald,

I always thought this was pretty close to the Waltz drawing:




Take care,

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

well...then were is that tiny box canyon with a gold mine off the side?

{sorry, skeeters ar bad here today...I'd say driving me nuts...but we all know that's just a stroll across the sidewalk.}

 

[cactusjumper]

well...then were is that tiny box canyon with a gold mine off the side?

{sorry, skeeters ar bad here today...I'd say driving me nuts...but we all know that's just a stroll across the sidewalk.}

Donald,

Just to the right of my picture.

Take care,

Joe

 

[RangeroftheNorth]

Missing clues. Here you go.

Once you find the correct rock house at the head of the canyon you travel DOWN the canyon looking at the west side of the canyon wall. You will eventually find a small steep tributary canyon , very steep and rocky , almost impassable because of the undergrowth. Head up that canyon and you will come to a tall spire to the south. Across from this spire (and much higher up) is the pit. Below the pit is the tunnel. Good luck.

Those are the "missing" clues as I understand them. Those landmarks do indeed exist as I have seen them. Dont know if they lead to the mine or not and I am not about to spend the rest of my days digging 20 foot deep holes to find out for sure.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

perfect for geo chem searching Joe. Beautifuly clear photo, congrats, am still used to BB's photos.

Jose

 

[pkdmslf]

Looks like the short spire on the left is gone now. When was the original photo taken? Did Ed Piper or Celeste Jones blow it off?

 

[gollum]

Joe,

That pic you posted from the DMClaim Site looked the closest to me. Maybe a quarter mile or so to the right (our right) from where the pic was taken.

MIke

 

[somehiker]

Google blowed it up. It's all a secret though......

Seriously, this is a good example as to why you should NOT rely on what you see on GE if you are looking for a lost mine.

This is a crop from one of the panoramio photos on GE, taken by someone who WAS really there.



It's kinda blurry......cause I blowed it up this time