History Channel - Oak Island mini series January 5, 2014

[Dave Rishar]

Check out these links Dave. I am certainly not an expert but I believe as it is used on a weekly not daily basis, the date would be read like, "February 12 minus (or less) 3 days."

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/41/v41i01p034-042.pdf

https://www.assa.org.au/edm

Should help.

It did help. You do realize that the MNHS link was actually a rather scathing critique of this theory, right?

Also, it does not pass the common sense test. Let's try a little thought experiment. For the purpose of this experiment, we will assume that the stone is completely authentic. Put yourself in the role of the stone's creator and answer the following questions:

1. Why am I making this stone? (I can think of a couple of reasons here, as I'm sure you can too.)
2. How should I make this stone?
3. What information should be provided on it?
4. Who am I hoping will eventually see this?

There are a few logical answers for the first question and depending on how you answered it, there will be logical questions for the other three. The problem that I'm having is answering all of these questions in a logical manner and ending up with the KSR, particularly with a cipher involved. We're only human, and humans do some very illogical things, but the moment that we start using this as our first step in solving a mystery we set ourselves up for incorrect conclusions. For all of the stupid things that people sometimes do, there's always a reason behind it - a silly, foolish, or even insane reason sometimes, but there is always a reason.

I've run this thought experiment a few times and I've come up with only three scenarios that make some kind of sense to me, but others may come up with more. I'll post them later, as I don't want to influence your own thought processes one way or the other.

 

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[FinderKeeper]

Finderkeeper..................thanks for the update! I'm not all that familiar with radar equipment. Is the radar unit that they used in the swamp..............the PVC pipe in a rectangle and carried by two men, the type of radar you would use for going over the swamp while it's frozen? Or, is there some other type of radar equipment that hasn't been used yet on Oak Island that would work better?

I sure hope Marty and Rick Lagina accept your offer of help. Until Marty and Rick Lagina came along all searches on Oak Island involved digging in or near the original money pit and haven't resulted in any tangible finds. I think investigating the swamp and other areas of the Island is probably the best route at this point.

The swamp is intriguing. When you look at aerial pictures of the swamp, it's a perfect triangle. In nature that's unusual. Most ponds, swamps, lakes, or any body of water is usually round or irregularly shaped. So the swamp on Oak Island is definitely different and suggests being man-made. Another thing that I've wondered about is the fact that the swamp is fresh water. Again, looking at aerial pictures, that swamp can't be more than 30 to 40 feet from the ocean, yet is freshwater. I would think that any body of water that close to the ocean would have a lot of salt water intrusion.

There's been some good points brought up on this forum in regards to the oak trees that once grew on Oak Island. If any are left, I think it would be a good idea to have them thoroughly checked out by a botanist to determine age. That might provide another clue to the Oak Island mystery. I'm thinking that someone brought those oak trees to the island for a purpose, perhaps in providing identification that the island to look for is the one with the oak trees on it. Dating the oaks trees would give us yet another date.

We stick with the Ground Radar units that are made here in the USA. The kind you pull , push, or drag are all good and anyone of them would do the job on Oak Island. What they used on the TV show does not have a high rating. It can detect metals but can it show voids and artifacts. Again I do not know what is under the swamp . If there is a lot of clay then not sure how deep radar will go and the one they used could do better. You have to know the land. If its solid stone then the radar can go down 100' easy. I think they only need to scan down 15' to see if there is anything worth a dig , and that should be easy.

 

[Mikey667]

It did help. You do realize that the MNHS link was actually a rather scathing critique of this theory, right?

Also, it does not pass the common sense test. Let's try a little thought experiment. For the purpose of this experiment, we will assume that the stone is completely authentic. Put yourself in the role of the stone's creator and answer the following questions:

1. Why am I making this stone? (I can think of a couple of reasons here, as I'm sure you can too.)
2. How should I make this stone?
3. What information should be provided on it?
4. Who am I hoping will eventually see this?

There are a few logical answers for the first question and depending on how you answered it, there will be logical questions for the other three. The problem that I'm having is answering all of these questions in a logical manner and ending up with the KSR, particularly with a cipher involved. We're only human, and humans do some very illogical things, but the moment that we start using this as our first step in solving a mystery we set ourselves up for incorrect conclusions. For all of the stupid things that people sometimes do, there's always a reason behind it - a silly, foolish, or even insane reason sometimes, but there is always a reason.

I've run this thought experiment a few times and I've come up with only three scenarios that make some kind of sense to me, but others may come up with more. I'll post them later, as I don't want to influence your own thought processes one way or the other.

Hey Dave... all of your questions can be answered by two words "Land Deed". I believe the Kensington Runestone was used to mark their territory. Cisternian Monks did it as a diary in their travels. The party that found itself in Kensington prolly had a monk traveling with them.

 

[Mikey667]

Found another pic of the Oak Island trees:



Also found an interesting link to a good dissertation on Oak Island at "CRITICAL ENQUIRY". Be forewarned, it is an anti-Oak Island treasure piece, but it has a LOT of info on the early digs of the Oak Island site including geological studies and such. Take what you like and leave the rest.

The Oak Island Legend

 

[Mikey667]

Oh, if you missed any of the episodes, you can find them here for free download. All 5 episodes are there.

Search results for "the curse of oak island" | Daily TV-Shows for You

 

[rowanns]

Found another pic of the Oak Island trees:

View attachment 947032

Also found an interesting link to a good dissertation on Oak Island at "CRITICAL ENQUIRY". Be forewarned, it is an anti-Oak Island treasure piece, but it has a LOT of info on the early digs of the Oak Island site including geological studies and such. Take what you like and leave the rest.66


The Oak Island Legend

Thank you for that photo Mikey667. I think the beach in the photo is Smith's Cove, which is the spot the coconut fibres were found. Oak trees just shouldn't grow like that. This is not an environment for them. Heck, I have a gorgeous Nova Scotian red oak tree in my front yard that puts these guys to shame! Wrong environment for them plain and simple; hence the questions. I had read that acorns don't float. Hopefully someone can tell me otherwise....

I get the geological information on the island. I get the notion of underground caverns and fully support the notion that they are natural formations. What I don't get is Smith's Cove, and the oaks just plain bother me.


If you're interested in stuff Nova Scotian, google "mystery walls Bayers Lake" and "Vikings Cape Breton" - I have a funny feeling this is the direction finderskeeper may be going in, though I most certainly could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

[Mikey667]

Thank you for that photo Mikey667. I think the beach in the photo is Smith's Cove, which is the spot the coconut fibres were found. I get the geological information on the island. I get the notion of underground caverns and fully support the notion that they are natural formations. What I don't get is Smith's Cove, and the oaks just plain bother me.


If you're interested in stuff Nova Scotian, google "mystery walls Bayers Lake" and "Vikings Cape Breton" - I have a funny feeling this is the direction finderskeepers is going in, though I most certainly could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

Hey Rowanns... I do believe it is Smiths Cove. I think this pic was taken at the same time yours was, if not the same photo, only yours was cropped.

I will goog what you mentioned... and yes, I agree, I think Finder is on that track if it is what I think it is...

 

[rowanns]

Hey Rowanns... I do believe it is Smiths Cove. I think this pic was taken at the same time yours was, if not the same photo, only yours was cropped.

I will goog what you mentioned... and yes, I agree, I think Finder is on that track if it is what I think it is...

Perhaps Oak Island may yield nothing in the way of "treasure" as it is usually thought of, i.e. gold and silver and riches aplenty. Who knows? But it continues to generate question after question about just who was here and when.

That's just plain grand in my books. Happy sleuthing!

 

[Leila]

Found another pic of the Oak Island trees:

View attachment 947032

Also found an interesting link to a good dissertation on Oak Island at "CRITICAL ENQUIRY". Be forewarned, it is an anti-Oak Island treasure piece, but it has a LOT of info on the early digs of the Oak Island site including geological studies and such. Take what you like and leave the rest.

The Oak Island Legend

Thanks for this picture! At first glance I was struck by how much the trees in the picture look like the Cypress trees along the coast in northern California. Here's a picture of a Cypress.

 

[Greg58]

It was actually one of the funniest things I have ever seen. They should have cut that scene. I hunt often and in water and mud and have never ever seen anything like that! The treasure is not on the lily pads.

I also found this to be really odd! They brought in (hired) a specialist for this. What did he actually do that any of the other divers couldn't do? They must have cut a lot of this segment.

 

[Leila]

We stick with the Ground Radar units that are made here in the USA. The kind you pull , push, or drag are all good and anyone of them would do the job on Oak Island. What they used on the TV show does not have a high rating. It can detect metals but can it show voids and artifacts. Again I do not know what is under the swamp . If there is a lot of clay then not sure how deep radar will go and the one they used could do better. You have to know the land. If its solid stone then the radar can go down 100' easy. I think they only need to scan down 15' to see if there is anything worth a dig , and that should be easy.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand what you're talking about now. A few years ago a 28-year-old woman who was kidnapped at 11-years-old was found with her kidnapper. He was arrested and the police considered him a suspect in the disappearances of other young girls who had disappeared from that area. There was a large vacant lot next to the kidnapper's house and the police brought in ground penetrating radar to scan that lot looking for graves. The radar they used looked like a push lawnmower. So, I imagine the radar they used was similar to what you're talking about.

 

[gublube]

some of these things remind me of jokes, they spend time looking for clues, why not just dig out the money pit and send divers down. im sure you can find the tunnels that flood it and then cave them in, just like that finding bigfoot show. hell, has anyone ever thought to just put some damn hound dogs on it. lol. they can tree a bear, trap a wild boar, they dam sure can find a bigfoot. just sayin,. its all for the story and show. its strange someone went through all the trouble with this pit, or did they do it as they went making it look like they were finding this stuff, salting the steak. hmmm! interesting none the less, but why waste time, todays equiptment and two box detectors, com mon!!!

 

[gublube]

I love the mystery and I love the story, don't take me wrong. just seems that they can put a man in space and walk the moon, but they cant get to the bottom of the money pit to see whats there. is it the mystery they need answers to as who and why. or just is there anything in theremen have dug mines and tunnels hundreds of feet for many yrs with no technology,whats the problem here just sayin

 

[Dave Rishar]

Hey Dave... all of your questions can be answered by two words "Land Deed". I believe the Kensington Runestone was used to mark their territory. Cisternian Monks did it as a diary in their travels. The party that found itself in Kensington prolly had a monk traveling with them.

Why leave a marker proclaiming land ownership without mentioning who the owners are or how much is owned? I had actually considered this, and I even have a theory on how it would (sort of) work logically, but I'll sit on that for now. I'm curious as to whether anyone else or not noticed this. Full disclosure at a future time, I promise.

They probably had a Cistercian monk with them, based on what?

As I promised earlier, I have some ideas about the KSR - again, assuming that it's authentic.

1. "We'll soon be gone, but we were here." A significant chunk of the group had just been wiped out and the survivors - strangers in a strange land, and now apparently facing enemies - had a long trek back to their ships. They didn't think that they were going to make it, so they recorded a brief message before departing. This actually explains a few things, such as why they ran out of room on the front of the stone and had to continue on to the side. (It was the only large rock around, and they were unable or unwilling to search out another one for any number of reasons. So that one would have to do.) PROBLEM: They did an awfully good job of recording that message, dressing the stone and everything. I'd have been in more of a hurry to get the hell out of there myself. I'm also not sure that I'd want to leave a very obvious marker, as it might be discovered and defaced/destroyed by the people chasing me out of Minnesota.

2. "Epic troll is epic." It's a hoax. As Nielsen pointed out, all of the runes on the stone seem to have existed at some place, at some point. (I'm unaware of any work using all of them together like that besides the KSR, but they DID technically coexist, even if they would not normally have been used together.) The assertion that Scandinavians (or anyone else who might know about runes) were not in the area 20 years before Ohman is absolutely false. It's certainly possible that someone carved the stone properly (either by design or accidently) and departed, allowing someone else to "find" it. Probable? At least as probable as Templars. It might have been a joke gone wrong - the hoaxer died before it was discovered, etc. It might not have even been originally meant as a hoax.

3. You don't get this one until later. It has to do with the land claim theory.

At this point, I'm going to suggest a slight derailment to get the train back on its tracks, if that makes sense. We're hashing out the KSR in a thread devoted to a television show about Oak Island, and while people believe what they will, the connection between the KSR and Oak Island is...well, tenuous at best. It may be time to make a new thread about this, as it's obviously something worth talking about. Perhaps the mods can assist us in peeling off some of our now-OT discussions and moving them into a new thread. I feel as though we're beginning to clutter up the thread. It's all good stuff, but this may not be the best place for it.

 

[Mikey667]

Thanks for this picture! At first glance I was struck by how much the trees in the picture look like the Cypress trees along the coast in northern California. Here's a picture of a Cypress.

View attachment 947109

Indeed, the cypress trees look A LOT like those posted here. With what Rowanns said, because of the fact they are right on the shore and exposed to the elements, any tree of that height would prolly look like that. I have looked around some search engines and did find a link to a somewhat Oak Osland tree preservation site, but it listed many different genus of oaks on the island. As I looked up corresponding pics, none have the "umbrella" look naturally. So, I believe Rowanns is right. Finding the geneology of the trees and tracing them back to Scotland would be a bit rough unless there was someone actually on the ground and doing a physical examination. When I find the link this evening I will post it. Now off to work... everybody here have a wonderful day!

 

[flyadive]

There is an island near me that the Lenape Indians called "Matennecunk" meaning island of pines back in the 1700's. (Called Burlington Island today)
You would be hard pressed to find a pine tree nowadays on that island.
Our landscape changes constantly, changing shape and even moving inches each year.
I'm just suggesting oak island is not what it was,
What was oak islands name way back when anyhow ?
I think most islands names have changed over centuries!

 

[Mikey667]

There is an island near me that the Lenape Indians called "Matennecunk" meaning island of pines back in the 1700's. (Called Burlington Island today)
You would be hard pressed to find a pine tree nowadays on that island.
Our landscape changes constantly, changing shape and even moving inches each year.
I'm just suggesting oak island is not what it was,
What was oak islands name way back when anyhow ?
I think most islands names have changed over centuries!

Good morning Flyadive,

The original name of Oak Island was Gloucester Island, dedicated to the Duke Of Glocester in England.

 

[flyadive]

Good morning Flyadive, The original name of Oak Island was Gloucester Island, dedicated to the Duke Of Glocester in England.

Thanks Mikey!
Now that could help in the investigation!

 

[burlbark]

Has anyone looked at Sable island which is a stones throw away? The Dennis was lost there in 1578 carrying all sorts of goodies and was never recovered.

Or the Tillbury to the north in 1757.

There are dozens of known gold bearing ships down in the area with no interest in them?

My atlas of Shipwrecks shows countless wrecks all up and down the coast, in fact there appears to be more wealth lost in the water than there is currently on land.

 

[Mikey667]

Why leave a marker proclaiming land ownership without mentioning who the owners are or how much is owned? I had actually considered this, and I even have a theory on how it would (sort of) work logically, but I'll sit on that for now. I'm curious as to whether anyone else or not noticed this. Full disclosure at a future time, I promise.

They probably had a Cistercian monk with them, based on what?

As I promised earlier, I have some ideas about the KSR - again, assuming that it's authentic.

1. "We'll soon be gone, but we were here." A significant chunk of the group had just been wiped out and the survivors - strangers in a strange land, and now apparently facing enemies - had a long trek back to their ships. They didn't think that they were going to make it, so they recorded a brief message before departing. This actually explains a few things, such as why they ran out of room on the front of the stone and had to continue on to the side. (It was the only large rock around, and they were unable or unwilling to search out another one for any number of reasons. So that one would have to do.) PROBLEM: They did an awfully good job of recording that message, dressing the stone and everything. I'd have been in more of a hurry to get the hell out of there myself. I'm also not sure that I'd want to leave a very obvious marker, as it might be discovered and defaced/destroyed by the people chasing me out of Minnesota.

2. "Epic troll is epic." It's a hoax. As Nielsen pointed out, all of the runes on the stone seem to have existed at some place, at some point. (I'm unaware of any work using all of them together like that besides the KSR, but they DID technically coexist, even if they would not normally have been used together.) The assertion that Scandinavians (or anyone else who might know about runes) were not in the area 20 years before Ohman is absolutely false. It's certainly possible that someone carved the stone properly (either by design or accidently) and departed, allowing someone else to "find" it. Probable? At least as probable as Templars. It might have been a joke gone wrong - the hoaxer died before it was discovered, etc. It might not have even been originally meant as a hoax.

3. You don't get this one until later. It has to do with the land claim theory.

At this point, I'm going to suggest a slight derailment to get the train back on its tracks, if that makes sense. We're hashing out the KSR in a thread devoted to a television show about Oak Island, and while people believe what they will, the connection between the KSR and Oak Island is...well, tenuous at best. It may be time to make a new thread about this, as it's obviously something worth talking about. Perhaps the mods can assist us in peeling off some of our now-OT discussions and moving them into a new thread. I feel as though we're beginning to clutter up the thread. It's all good stuff, but this may not be the best place for it.

Hey Dave... yeah, maybe it would be good to move the Kensington Runestone ideas to a different thread. Although the KRS is not mentioned on the show, which this thread pertains to, I do believe that the KRS could very well have something to do with the Knights Templar theroy. I know you do question it's authenticty, I am not here to change your mind. As you say, the jury is still out.

The year on it, 1362, does jive with many different things involved with Oak Island. It is my belief that a scouting party was sent out by Henry Sinclair about that time. To get to Kensington, Minnesota, the party would have had to pass thru the Oak Island area. The carbon dating of the coconut fibers (maybe off by 400 years) was still dated to the same time frame as well. This does not mean that the scouting party buried Knights Templar treasure there at that time, but coincidences don't happen often in history. The "Hooked X" offers a direct tie to Henry Sinclair, the Knights Templar, and Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland. The "Hooked X" also ties in with Christopher Columbus, who, thru marriage, had ties with the Templar and FreeMasons. Remember that the "Hooked X" wasn't really deciphered until about 1935, many years after Olaf discovered the KRS. In essence, Olaf could not have known about it if he indeed scribed it himself. Plus, he probably did not know about the double dating technique as in the easter table.

As both you and I are not experts in this field, we both can only watch and wait until definitive proof is found. I don't have time to become and expert, I am just a lowly guy who paints trailers, turning tanks into Mona Lisa's... hahaha... BUT, if you believe it warrants a new thread topic, I will happy to frequent it and post accordingly. As it sits, there is no proof that the KRS is authentic, with which I agree with you. If It is, it is a start toward many unsolved questions. It is a starting point which could be the biggest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls.

And the cistercian monk situation... many explorers of that day, being very religious, took along a monk of their religious practice to help keep a party brave in the face of danger.

Thank you for being interested. It does take an open mind. Many situations in history were poo-pooed until proven correct. This one deserves an open mind as well. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. Hell, we BOTH could be wrong. Investigating a little bit doesn't hurt. I'll freely admit if I am wrong, but it does not negate the fact that you and I both, with others, did come up with some ideas.