Historic find?

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b3y0nd3r

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Aug 27, 2011
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ctx 3030 nokta impact Equinox 800

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Upvote 12
That is very cool. It looks like maybe the mold for the medallion on the book?

I have seen some very esoteric Victorian era brass novelty works stuff turn up in the dirt. The guys who worked in the brass novelty works of the era dragged home some really neat and unique items.
 

Very interesting find! Looking forward to reading more about the items history. :occasion14:
 

congrats keep me updated..
 

The item was found with the Nox 800 over a foot deep in a park from the late 1700's and could be of great historical significance!

I would like to believe it is an original die(cast) for the 1880 Ulysses S Grant Convention Medal.

[www.railsplitter.com].

"Grant 1881 Convention Medal... a special issue! One of the more interesting pieces of political exonumia we have encountered, a 2 3/4" diameter bronze medal featuring a bust profile of Grant surrounded by laurels and a series of numbers. The verso identifies the medal as a "Commemorative of the 36 Ballots of The Old Guard for Ulysses S. Grant For President" at the 1880 Chicago Convention. A self-congratulatory piece cast in 1881 by the loyal supporters of U.S. Grant who stuck by him through 36 ballots at the 1880 Convention as Grant attempted to win an unprecedented third nomination for President. This unique offering has been engraved with the name of the original recipient, John Cessna. Offered together with a leather-bound book, 31p, 6 1/4 x 8", adorned with a hollow replica of the medal on the recto and verso printed for a reunion dinner of "The Old Guard" in Philadelphia on April 25, 1893. This select group, nicknamed "306" for the number of delegates who stood with Grant on the final ballot as the balance of the convention stampeded to Garfield. A fascinating piece of political memorabilia. (Est. $400-500)"

Digging a little deeper, these commemorative medals were all personalized. My mold/die was for Jas. A. Beaver who is actually James Addams Beaver who was a civil war vet and the 20th governor of Pennsylvania!
 

Interesting find, but not sure what the historical significance of the mold would be. If you found one of the actual medals, that would be a significant historical find. But the mold to make it would have no historical significance, in my opinion.
 

If that is one of the dies used to stamp that coin then it is a significant find. There were hundreds of coins stamped out, but there is only (probably) one die. If it is a die, it would be hardened tool steel. It should clean up pretty good.
Great find. Gary
 

im hoping someone with some knowledge of this type of thing ways in. In other words, HELP!!!! LOL
 

I agree it is a very interesting find. And certainly historic, given the subject of the die. I love intriguing finds like this - congrats! :icon_thumright:
 

JamieD is correct, it is not a die for stamping a medal. If it were the writing would be cut in rather than raised up and it would be made from high carbon tool steel which rusts quickly and severely. It is indeed a printing block like would be used for a newspaper or magazine ad. Printing blocks are often made from zinc or zinc/lead alloy which is what the found item appears to be. It also could not have been for the book since the letters on the book are raised and the found object has raised letters also so the die for that would have had to have been made with the letters cut in rather than raised up. Also, if every medal was personalized to an owner there would have had to have been a separate die for each one. Note also that the one shown by AARC is NOT personalized, has no owner's name on it.
 

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That’s a real interesting find. Congrats. I think AARC nailed the ID.
 

gunsil said:
JamieD is correct, it is not a die for stamping a medal. If it were the writing would be cut in rather than raised up and it would be made from high carbon tool steel which rusts quickly and severely. It is indeed a printing block like would be used for a newspaper or magazine ad. Printing blocks are often made from zinc or zinc/lead alloy which is what the found item appears to be. It also could not have been for the book since the letters on the book are raised and the found object has raised letters also so the die for that would have had to have been made with the letters cut in rather than raised up. Also, if every medal was personalized to an owner there would have had to have been a separate die for each one. Note also that the one shown by AARC is NOT personalized, has no owner's name on it.
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There were 306 made, some were blank with the name ascribed in cursive, mine was made with his name. I dont think this was for printing as nothing printed with this ever documented.
 

Maybe a wax seal stamp? Could be the medals were issued with a document that had an impression of the medal stamped onto it in wax. If that's what it is, that would be a great find!
 

b3y0nd3r said:
There were 306 made, some were blank with the name ascribed in cursive, mine was made with his name. I dont think this was for printing as nothing printed with this ever documented.
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Well it certainly was not made to strike any medals or any metal objects. Just because you can't find a reference to anything printed on the net doesn't mean no printed documents, advertisements, or other printed matter like business cards were ever made. It is indeed made for printing and all your wishing it weren't won't change that fact. Perhaps J A Beaver had some business or introduction cards made up expressing his membership in the Old Guard, or maybe it was used to print literature for his campaign for governor. Once more it was not used to strike any medals. It is a cool find, just not what you seem to wish it to be. Any personalized medals would have had to have the owner's name hand engraved on the medal after the medal was made or a die would have had to have been made for every different name and that is highly unlikely die to the high cost of having dies made. You asked for other "experts" to weigh in, well I am no expert in the field of campaign medals but I surely know about dies for striking coins, medals, tokens, jewelry, etc, I do die stamping in my work. I also have dealt in old printing blocks and know what they are made of and what they look like. You, sir, have found a printing block.
 

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gunsil said:
Well it certainly was not made to strike any medals or any metal objects. Just because you can't find a reference to anything printed on the net doesn't mean no printed documents, advertisements, or other printed matter like business cards were ever made. It is indeed made for printing and all your wishing it weren't won't change that fact. Perhaps J A Beaver had some business or introduction cards made up expressing his membership in the Old Guard, or maybe it was used to print literature for his campaign for governor. Once more it was not used to strike any medals. It is a cool find, just not what you seem to wish it to be. Any personalized medals would have had to have the owner's name hand engraved on the medal after the medal was made or a die would have had to have been made for every different name and that is highly unlikely die to the high cost of having dies made. You asked for other "experts" to weigh in, well I am no expert in the field of campaign medals but I surely know about dies for striking coins, medals, tokens, jewelry, etc, I do die stamping in my work. I also have dealt in old printing blocks and know what they are made of and what they look like. You, sir, have found a printing block.
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I am not wishing anything. These commemorative medals were not made by the government. These were hand made by locals. There were blank molds and more personalized ones. The size of this mold is the same size as the medal itself much larger than a business card. I don't mind your guess on what it is, but I don't think you are correct.
 

gunsil said:
Well it certainly was not made to strike any medals or any metal objects. Just because you can't find a reference to anything printed on the net doesn't mean no printed documents, advertisements, or other printed matter like business cards were ever made. It is indeed made for printing and all your wishing it weren't won't change that fact. Perhaps J A Beaver had some business or introduction cards made up expressing his membership in the Old Guard, or maybe it was used to print literature for his campaign for governor. Once more it was not used to strike any medals. It is a cool find, just not what you seem to wish it to be. Any personalized medals would have had to have the owner's name hand engraved on the medal after the medal was made or a die would have had to have been made for every different name and that is highly unlikely die to the high cost of having dies made. You asked for other "experts" to weigh in, well I am no expert in the field of campaign medals but I surely know about dies for striking coins, medals, tokens, jewelry, etc, I do die stamping in my work. I also have dealt in old printing blocks and know what they are made of and what they look like. You, sir, have found a printing block.
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I agree. It would certainly have to be the other way around to make a medal with raised letters. Pretty cool find nonetheless. Congrats!
 

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