Has anyone seen these symbols?

[Limitool]

I was trying to see if anyone recognizes this small symbol which is next to another larger one. It's a small black dot with lines coming from it heading North, South, East and West. This symbol is located within a cave just past natural light on a small mud/clay mound measuring 48" long x 18" high x 12"thick. The small symbol is located just left and midway down (on left side) of the larger one. Thanks for any input... I'd really like some input especially on the small symbol with the black dot center.... Thank you.... Brad

 

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[dsty]

deleted

 

[Limitool]

Hello Brad, just because its in a cave it still should be worked as a corner monument, If you get the exact measurements and degrees and take them to the top of the hill / mountain and just transfer them from the cave to the top, may be 190 feet cordel, there May / may Not be something at the correct spot, just have to build your own map on paper so to speak. Good Luck, Ernie

Thanks Ernie.... I'd like to do what you suggest... but I have to admit I do not have the knowledge. I'm wondering if the wavy figure on left side of mound is a "drawing" of the cave entrance with the stream flowing outward from it. The entrance is wide and then the cave narrows and lowers quickly. But it goes this way a long ways. And there's another mound way back deep in cave but this area is so hard to reach... and why its there is beyond me. This is what I'm trying to figure out.... I need a lot of help. Thanks, Brad

 

[Rawhide]

Hi Limitool, I believe dsty is correct. I call this the half lobster which I made up of course. I believe your symbols to be important because they are underground, in the shadows so to speak. I suspect you will find the same symbol up top in the day light somewhere. There may be more symbols here, look in the shadows for more clues. I wish I was there to help you look, thanks for sharing.

The dot in the center I have seen before. But I also see a hooked "x" behind it? You are dealing with a map so to speak. The last sign is the one most miss, the one underground. Cave are dangerous, and I would try to get some deep seeking equipment in there. There is other ways to see if something has been hid there. Im not sure if this is a stopping point or a starting point. You could follow the caves natural route, but the folks who put this here would know that and do something different. You be careful, this is old stuff, and they werent right in the head.

 

[Shortstack]

I count at least 30 small circles up and down the line work of both "Y" shapes and to the left of them. There are also a few below them, close to the bottom of the stone. A small circle like these can represent the value of "2" or show the locations of caches OR water holes / springs.

Is that large shape to the right a wide crack through the stone or is it a carved shape? If it is a deep crack, that is an odd, straight, black horizontal crack across it.

 

[dsty]

deleted

 

[Limitool]

I count at least 30 small circles up and down the line work of both "Y" shapes and to the left of them. There are also a few below them, close to the bottom of the stone. A small circle like these can represent the value of "2" or show the locations of caches OR water holes / springs.

Is that large shape to the right a wide crack through the stone or is it a carved shape? If it is a deep crack, that is an odd, straight, black horizontal crack across it.

Hey thanks guys for your input and interest (and I mean this sincerely). Just for clarity this mound is made of mud/clay not stone. And, maybe you have viewed (maybe not) but there are MANY photos of this mound on my main thread in "Todays Finds". http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/359759-metal-detectiing-tn-cave-anybody-done-8.html . Maybe this link will work. "Todays Finds" under "Metal detecting TN. cave / Anybody Done This?". This thread has 22 pages. All the photos start on page 7 with mound photos on page 8 then scattered thereafter. Shortstack... the mound is cracked completely through and slightly separated. You'll easily see if you view some of the other photos. I CANNOT understand (among other things) the straight line that runs along the top front of mound which stays perfectly straight even after where the mound has split. How does this "line" stay straight How was the line even drawn or put onto mound THAT STRAIGHT Look at the wavy figure close (left side of mound). It appears that after it was scratched into mound someone pushed small pebbles into the grooves on left side part of figure. And why is there a pile of rocks below this figure And on the right side of mound there are MANY etching that have faded due to the environment. Please review video link on page 22 in "Todays Finds" and help me think.... You guys are a great resource. I'm sure you folks will see something that I'm not yet. Remember this area is low, cramped, 12 feet from a small creek and against the cave wall and ceiling. 48" x 18" x 12" Thanks Brad.

 

[Limitool]

Good day guys.... Dr. Jan Simek from U.T. was asked to review a couple of photos sent to him. Well he did and his first impression is that this mud/clay mound is the remains from a sediment cast from a long ago saltpeter vat. Now if... and I say IF this is right the earliest this could be would be early 1800's. And this means the etchings upon mound came after it was made. He stated that if this mound was from a vat it is a very good one at that. I admit I'm native about saltpeter mining. This mound is located up against the cave wall and the ceiling. And this area is very low and cramped. It's only 2 feet high from floor to ceiling at mound. So, while I can make a case for the H, L, and R on mound I cannot make one for the symbols left upon it. The letters are too spaced for initials (which is why I was thinking runes writings) but the symbols? Especially after early 1800's. So do any of you guys know how small a space was accessed to mine saltpeter? Does this make sense to any of you? And it might.... Thanks for any input or knowledge... Brad

 

[Shortstack]

Talk about good timing..........a copy of a newsletter that I subscribe to came in today and had and excellent article about the Bosnian pyramids which are now called the oldest in the world and are more than 100 meters TALLER than the Great Pyramid of Giza. Anyway, part of the article concerns a type of language. I'll paste that info here along with some of the symbols.

Limitool, I think you'll recognize some of these symbols. Check out numbers 31 through 36. I highlighted the main point.


The science of Geoglyphology, the name given to the ancient science by its discoverer Arthur Faram, is drawn from the prefix “geo” – meaning earth, and the word “glyph” - meaning a symbol or writing. Hence, the science of Geoglyphology meaning symbols or writings on the earth. The fact that the builders applied the science to the Bosnian Pyramids is an indication that the science is at least 24,000 years old, or older. The science is an ancient method of outlining territories claimed by the civilization that constructed the geoglyph.
Up until now the oldest known manmade archaeological site has been the 10,500 year old site at Gobekli Tepi, in the country of Turkey. Geoglyphology, having been used to construct the Bosnian Pyramids, indicates that the science has been used for over 24,000 years to establish survey markers outlining ancient territories. The validity of both the Science of Geoglyphology and the Bosnian Pyramids has been extracted from four sources; three of them constructed at least 10,000 years apart.

The study of Geoglyphs around the world, by Geoglyphologist Arthur Faram, indicates that this science has been used down through the ages, and around the world, from times before the Bosnian Pyramid, until historical times, by every major civilization.

Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation found a text in the megalith T-1
Tunnel between Ravne and the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, here we want to present a comparison of these symbols or characters with some of the most ancient scripts known, dating to a time prior to Ancient Rome. From the two megaliths T-1 and T-2, we have compiled a list of 50 signs which we will call “Proto-Bosnian”, including small and large letters and numbers.


This rather logical and sensible writing system is much older than all previously known alphabets so far deciphered. Immersed in a sea of flood waters resulting from the rapid melting and retreat of the snow and ice cover of the rest of Europe at the end of the Ice Age. We hypothesize that these two megaliths and the entire surface of the Bosnian Valley of Pyramids date from before 10,000 B.C., prior to the time of the making of this tunnel through the debris called or breccia on the sea bottom. The vast tunnel network around the Visocica Pyramid is likely to have other tunnels connecting the most important pyramids in this valley, possibly at a level now lower than the Bosna River. Tunnels several miles long have been found connecting the pyramids with ventilation vents about every 30 meters so that breathing is no problem within the tunnels.

 

[Limitool]

Shortstack.... This is the FIRST time I have seen ANYTHING that appears to resemble the large wavy figure on left side of the mound. Now we got to see if a meaning can be applied to it. #35 above comes the closest... well right on is more like it. And #32 above could be good also. Now on the main thread of mine (Metal Detectiing TN. cave / Anybody done this?) I found some photos of sediment casts from saltpeter vats and posted them. Now I'm NOT 100% buying into this idea yet because of the cramped environment. If this mound is a sediment cast then the marking upon it cannot be older than the mound (about 200 years). But if this is NOT a sediment cast it opens up a world of possibilities.

And yes that was GOOD TIMING... and thanks for your time and interest. I really wish you "sign guys" lived next door. We'd tear these ridges up around this cave. (Wife's a GREAT cook).

 

[Shortstack]

Limitool:
First off, I am not trying to this say explanation is THE correct one........just offereing a possible one. The history of North America includes exploration by the Ancient societies that the so called "main stream" scientists refuse to consider. This link is to a website I recently came across that has information concerning some extraordinary finds in a cave in south Illinois. The artifacts are of Egyptian origination and a certain cave might contain the tomb of Alexander the Great and Cleopatra. That sounds weird I know, but here's the link:

Ptolemy Home Page

Enjoy.

 

[Springfield]

Limitool:
First off, I am not trying to this say explanation is THE correct one........just offereing a possible one. The history of North America includes exploration by the Ancient societies that the so called "main stream" scientists refuse to consider. This link is to a website I recently came across that has information concerning some extraordinary finds in a cave in south Illinois. The artifacts are of Egyptian origination and a certain cave might contain the tomb of Alexander the Great and Cleopatra. That sounds weird I know, but here's the link:

Ptolemy Home Page

Enjoy.

It's a scam, stack. Burrows made and sold the artifacts, then the mormons embraced the place trying to prove their cult. I was really interested too when the story first came out, but those guys on your linked website changed my mind. I generally agree with your 'mainstream' skepticism, but not in this case. Of course, as always, I could be wrong.

 

[Limitool]

Good morning Stack.... Yea I realize you aren't "saying" what it is... I understand. Another guy (not on this site) says the mound etchings are a hoax. He thinks the H, L, R are runes writings put there along with the wavy symbol on the left. I'm not buying this. There are so many other very faded images on this mound. And I'm having a hard time buying the sediment casts from saltpeter vats theory also. I can't imagine ANYONE carrying back lumber, nails, tools, shovels and constructing a vat and then filling it. There's just no room to fill it... And that means the etchings and symbols came afterward. But I'm like you stack and Springfield.... I could be wrong. The very small black dot with the 4 lines going outward really makes me think this thing is OLD... like real old. Later.... Brad

 

[Shortstack]

Springfield:
I appreciate that heads up. The guys at that site wrote about how Burrows (or whatever his name is) was just too secretative and evasive PLUS the guy even told them that he was going to manufacture fakes based on what he had found. MAN, if he'd ACTUALLY found Alexander's cript AND Cleapatra's.........he could have milked that find for MILLIONS. I agree, he was just using an old cave as the background for a scam for fakes.

There have been finds pointing to Egypt and the other middleeast countries discovered in enough spots of the midwest to make a great case for those Ancients. Guess, Burrows was playing on those finds as his base for scoring some ill gotten gains. LOL


Limitool:
Since the KGC groups have roots going back a couple of thousand years (if you take into account of the Knights Templar), the modern groups could have decided to use these "land claim" signs as part of their codes. I have to wonder who would have been mining saltpeter in Tennesee. Was it profitable enough to ship that material out of the area to gunpowder manufacturers outside of Tennesee?

 

[Limitool]

Shortstack writes "Limitool: Since the KGC groups have roots going back a couple of thousand years (if you take into account of the Knights Templar), the modern groups could have decided to use these "land claim" signs as part of their codes. I have to wonder who would have been mining saltpeter in Tennesee. Was it profitable enough to ship that material out of the area to gunpowder manufacturers outside of Tennesee?"

Yea stack.... I have researched the net for 2 full days. It does appear Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia were major saltpeter suppliers starting in the war of 1812. It appears that after England stopped India from supplying us with saltpeter the trade exploded here (U.S.) around 1800. And it appears TN. has the most caves with KY. having the Mammoth cave with others also. And Georgia had a bunch also. And it appears even area folks with access to caves used the saltpeter for preserving meats and foods. It appears caves with its own water supply with large oak forests above it were the best. This has both. Also oak tress were needed to burn for ash to mix with the saltpeter. This cave is surrounded with 100's of acres all around by oak forests.

NOW... I'm still having a hard time getting my head wrapped around where this "sediment cast" is located ... as being a sediment cast...? After the vat was built there's just no room to fill it let alone put water into it. It's just to close to the ceiling... so says I. And even if it is only 200 years old... what the hell are those symbols. The large one on left and the smaller one next to it. And lets just assume the H, L, and R are miner initials (which I don't). And many smaller symbols are very faded.... This is why I posted on TreasureNet... trying to get help. Later... Brad

 

[dsty]

Hello Everbody the reason I deleted the two post is because I was unsure about some of the measurements and by the time I got them corrected I lost interest in my ability to help due to other interest, in other words I couldn't help. Thanks

 

[Limitool]

Hello Everbody the reason I deleted the two post is because I was unsure about some of the measurements and by the time I got them corrected I lost interest in my ability to help due to other interest, in other words I couldn't help. Thanks

That's fine dsty... I do really appreciate your interest and time. I'll properly never find out for absolutely sure what I've found. But thank you guy.... Brad

 

[Shortstack]

Limitool:
Sounds like you're going to have to make some basic presumptions and organized
research. Keep excellent records and drawings to increase your productivity and DE
crease your discomfort.

1--That cave is too small for vats to be used, so they were somewhere else nearby.
2--Are the locations where the vats actually sat, important knowledge?
3--Since the material where these signs and symbols are cut into is clay based mud,
why did the original carvers think it was safe to put this information on such a soft
material that could have been washed away by some strong flood water action?
4-- Are the symbols in the photos the ONLY symbols inside or outside the cave, within close
proximity.
5-- Research the history of the land ownership going back as far as you can check.....at the county
courthouse and any historical archives available.
6-- Are there any Masonic Lodges, Moose Lodges, Woodsmen of the World facilities, etc. in the close
area. It makes no difference if the local population is a very low count. I know where there is a
Masonic Lodge in my county that is a small, square concrete block building of about 30 feet ( maybe
33 feet ) on a side, no windows and is located in a small crossroads type community. Very low
resident count. Sooooo, check that out. If there IS one, then it's probably a good indication that
that community has a long and strong attachment to the Masonic "family".
7-- Take the most accurate measurements that you can, of those "Y" type shapes and draw them out to
scale. Include all marks, circles, etc. involved with them.. That way you won't have to crawl back and
forth into that cramped space.
8--Try to get a black light to take photos of that symbol area to see if there are any hidden color markers. There
probably won't be, so to do this is not that important if you can't get the light.
9-- Keep your information in a ring binder and NOT just on your computer. Having that binder in your hands will
actually help you concentrate on the project. Plus, computer problems will not wipe out your records in
a well kept binder.

 

[mr_rich]

"8--Try to get a black light to take photos of that symbol area to see if there are any hidden color markers. There
probably won't be, so to do this is not that important if you can't get the light."

Very good Idea you can see things that don't show in regular light and you can buy Black light handheld flashlights

 

[Limitool]

"8--Try to get a black light to take photos of that symbol area to see if there are any hidden color markers. There
probably won't be, so to do this is not that important if you can't get the light."

Very good Idea you can see things that don't show in regular light and you can buy Black light handheld flashlights

Guys I did buy one (black light) but I obviously didn't get a big enough one or not enough of them. I purchased a 6" light... took it back... turned it on... and it didn't put out enough light for ANYTHING! Shortstack... Lets assume your right (like I believe also) that the mound is NOT a sediment cast from a vat.... Then what is it? It's not natural to it's environment at all. And the cave gets SMALLER further back with a couple more. I'm really perplexed at this time.... Later and thanks.... Brad