Gunpowder booby trap in money pit

[robertk]

For Reference

That's just nuts. How big a hole do you have to dig before you decide there's nothing down there?

 

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[3cylbill]

That's just nuts. How big a hole do you have to dig before you decide there's nothing down there?

What if t was 10 feet to the left..underground is so much different than above ground..maybe they simply dug a big hole In the wrong spot..

 

[TruthbeTold]

For Reference

The photo shown here focused on the sideways digs that proved flood tunnels didn’t exist.

The deep hole is actually almost directly under Dan Blankenship and Dunfield in the photo.

This photo is when they actually decided to fully open the hole. From the angle taken the bottom cannot be seen. I’ll take Dunfield’s word for the authenticity of a 100 foot depth vs. any pseudo historians.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Perhaps I misunderstand you. The powder charge was not buried in dirt.
Back to the Truro history - it was established that a room existed with a roof at 98 feet, floor at 104 feet making it 6ft tall.
Measurements from other places (guesses maybe) say the pit was 13 ft diameter.
I proposed that within this room probably sealed with blue clay was an air space, and the gun was in here, not in contact with any soil.

Black powder is hydroscopic. Meaning it absorbs water from the ambient air. It has to be kept in sealed kegs, cans, containers. If it was below the local waterline, it was degrading. Blue clay or not. If there was any age to the farsical money pit the wood casks would have degraded in just a few years. It's just not a sensical supposition that someone buried wealth too deep to ever recover, or to recover quickly. Why would they?

 

[Armchair detective]

For Reference

You had me going there for a bit. Why did you pass along a photo that has clearly been patched? (#1). The area under the platform and upward to under the bucket which apparently shows a shaft is bogus. A magnifying glass helps. Please say you didn't know.
I did mean to get back to you re your first post on this thread. A piece of my pet theory regarding what happened here has S Ball arriving at OI in 1782 with a bag of coins and jewels. The coins stayed within reach, the jewels were buried. This would be a very hard target to find. I don't see anything on your post that contradicts this.

 

[Armchair detective]

Black powder is hydroscopic. Meaning it absorbs water from the ambient air. It has to be kept in sealed kegs, cans, containers. If it was below the local waterline, it was degrading. Blue clay or not. If there was any age to the farsical money pit the wood casks would have degraded in just a few years. It's just not a sensical supposition that someone buried wealth too deep to ever recover, or to recover quickly. Why would they?

Interesting. It would mean that whoever buried it was intending to return in a very short time.
As to why so deep, the shaft was already dug and open. Nobody fills in a mining shaft after they're done. You would if you needed a hole fast.
Have you seen Zena's map? Written in French, it shows many landmarks identifying OI from the sea, plus the location of the MP, but no instructions for locating any treasure. Also unsigned. Most curious, unless you consider it made by a French spy. Yet another reason I am fixated on 1782.
Okay cat's out of the bag. I think what was buried was a revolutionary war weapons cache, a treasure to some.

 

[robertk]

It's just not a sensical supposition that someone buried wealth too deep to ever recover, or to recover quickly. Why would they?

Exactly. Even if something was buried there that was intended to never be recovered, you'd think these extraordinary efforts would have found it by now.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Have you seen Zena's map?

Zena Halpern. Seen the map. She, or someone in the last 75 years, did a fair job creating it. I rate it every bit as viable as her leprechaun sightings.

 

[Armchair detective]

More like Truro fiction.

Like many other individuals and companies, whenever they realized that there was nothing to be found in their digs, they would make up fabulous stories of rooms, chambers, flood tunnels, etc. This was especially true for companies that had lost money in mistakingly believing in the original tall tale.

Dunfield finally said enough and dug vast, deep holes and proved nothing ever existed on the island. No money pit, flood tunnels, etc. He then buried all the trash and wood debris from other’s excavations, the same debris that the laginas “find” on the show and claim to have “mysterious” origins.

View attachment 2150773

Yes, Dunfield's "hole" was very wide at the top but as he got down to whatever depth he got to it was only "bucket width" wide. People want to say he dug a hole 100' wide and 100' deep and it may or may not been 100' deep but it was no where's' near that wide at the bottom.. There is a pic of him and Dan standing part way down in the hole for reference..

I missed your point that your photo doesn't show any side tunnels. I believe I can explain that.
I've accepted that there was an original mining shaft for digging out iron pyrite (fool's gold).
Gold is an element, which means upon applying heat it goes from solid to liquid to gas, and when you cool it back down to solid, it is still gold with the same color, softness, etc.
Iron pyrite is hard and brittle and a shiny golden color. When you heat it on the open air however, it changes to the slag below.
There are 3-4 OI episodes where a diver underwater films gold stuff embedded in the walls, and another where they talked about and showed slag from a British encampment forge.
Reasoning this happens because IP forms under high pressure, it means you would only find IP below a certain depth, hence no side tunnels above that level.
Make sense?
Why dig iron pyrite? For another time, but has to do with the fact that no government has enough gold to cover all transactions, so need a substitute metal.

 

[TruthbeTold]

You had me going there for a bit. Why did you pass along a photo that has clearly been patched? (#1). The area under the platform and upward to under the bucket which apparently shows a shaft is bogus. A magnifying glass helps. Please say you didn't know.
I did mean to get back to you re your first post on this thread. A piece of my pet theory regarding what happened here has S Ball arriving at OI in 1782 with a bag of coins and jewels. The coins stayed within reach, the jewels were buried. This would be a very hard target to find. I don't see anything on your post that contradicts this.

Finally someone who understands that Samual Ball arrived with some wealth vs. finding a massive treasure on oak island.

Ball served in the British military. Besides normal pay, British soldiers were sometimes able to share in the spoils of their conquests, many of which at the time was raiding non-British ships.

 

[releventchair]

Five items are needed for this, and 3 1/2 have been found. Flooring pole attached.with copper wire attached to a piece that goes between hammer and flashpan of pistol attached and aimed at gunpowder leg. The 90 foot stone is a warning to burier or friend that trap trigger is near.

90 foot stone as a warning. Just in case a smaller sign would be missed?

I have a flintlock you could visit and experiment with.
You would learn to be very jealous of both our priming charge and your flints condition.

"Piece between hammer and flashpan of pistol" is where your inexperience flares greater than a perceived priming charge being successfully touched off.
Firstly begging ; Why a pistols "flashpan"? Why not a rifle or fowling pieces? Or musket's either smooth or rifled?

Secondly , "flashpan of pistol attached and aimed at gunpowder leg"...
What?
What rudimentary method of igniting a powder charge are we looking at here in "aiming'' a flashpan?
and if somehow you were on to something and could get such a concept to work in the best brief condition somehow...

Why set a trap in the first place?
Why would you use a 90 foot warning if it was a trap?
How did you rodent proof the set?
Mouse /rat/snake/ambitious youth walks wire , takes a bounce and "flashpan aimed at powder leg" poofs across the void and hits magically dry powder( from what distance? Through what conduit?) and kaboom!
You show up a year later by ship ; to see what?

 

[Armchair detective]

Finally someone who understands thatin Samual Ball arrived with some wealth vs. finding a massive treasure on oak island.

Ball served in the British military. Besides normal pay, British soldiers were sometimes able to share in the spoils of their conquests, many of which at the time was raiding non-British ships.

I'll go one further.
There seems to be history that S Ball was in New York City during 1782 under Ward.
I get the idea that this command was entrepreneurial in nature, engaging in activities that made money "for extra credit".
Recall that there was a fire in NYC in the summer of 1782 which destroyed 1/3 of the city, and that the British were driven out in Nov 1782. It seems possible that some scavenging for wealth in the burned out city could have taken place.

 

[Armchair detective]

Zena Halpern. Seen the map. She, or someone in the last 75 years, did a fair job creating it. I rate it every bit as viable as her leprechaun sightings.

 

[Armchair detective]

Not ready to give up on Zena's map just yet - it is too weird, but since we are talking about fool 's gold, maybe leprechauns should be in the story.
Lol

 

[n2mini]

You had me going there for a bit. Why did you pass along a photo that has clearly been patched? (#1). The area under the platform and upward to under the bucket which apparently shows a shaft is bogus. A magnifying glass helps. Please say you didn't know.
I did mean to get back to you re your first post on this thread. A piece of my pet theory regarding what happened here has S Ball arriving at OI in 1782 with a bag of coins and jewels. The coins stayed within reach, the jewels were buried. This would be a very hard target to find. I don't see anything on your post that contradicts this.

I'm just trying to show that the Dunfield hole was NOT 100' wide at the bottom. Probably was at the top. These pics prove that. I never mentioned side tunnels at all. Not sure how to take your "Pet Theory" If S Ball showed up to OI with his riches to start with well then that explains his wealth and rumors of spending gold coins in town. I have never read where he for a fact did already have the gold coins before getting to OI. It has always just been speculated by some to be so, but not proven, and what does your Pet Theory says as to why he would have buried his jewels yet not the gold coins?

 

[DizzyDigger]

Could someone please explain to me how, in 1782, they managed to dig a 100' deep hole on a beach.

 

[n2mini]

It wasn't really a beach area as we know of as a beach now. Weren't digging in the sand it was hard packed and some of which was a blue-ish clay. With enough people and or time it really wouldn't be that big of a deal unless they hit water.. and just because it is an island doesn't mean your going to hit water at 30' deep.. Keep in mind people have been building pyramids for over 4000 years, so a 100' hole wouldn't be a problem..

 

[Armchair detective]

I'm just trying to show that the Dunfield hole was NOT 100' wide at the bottom. Probably was at the top. These pics prove that. I never mentioned side tunnels at all. Not sure how to take your "Pet Theory" If S Ball showed up to OI with his riches to start with well then that explains his wealth and rumors of spending gold coins in town. I have never read where he for a fact did already have the gold coins before getting to OI. It has always just been speculated by some to be so, but not proven, and what does your Pet Theory says as to why he would have buried his jewels yet not the gold coins?

Okay you never mentioned side tunnels.
I can see you feel strongly about the the validity of the conical shape of the dig.
Based on your pic, I don't agree unless there is something else. Agree to disagree?
I'll come back to the jewels business in a bit. There is a fine line between deductive reasoning and rationalization (I WANT there to be some kind of treasure).
Now I have to figure out how to get out of writing an essay for someone with a lot of questions. It REALLY IS annoying when other people figure out a job they want you to do for them.

 

[Armchair detective]

90 foot stone as a warning. Just in case a smaller sign would be missed?

I have a flintlock you could visit and experiment with.
You would learn to be very jealous of both our priming charge and your flints condition.

"Piece between hammer and flashpan of pistol" is where your inexperience flares greater than a perceived priming charge being successfully touched off.
Firstly begging ; Why a pistols "flashpan"? Why not a rifle or fowling pieces? Or musket's either smooth or rifled?

Secondly , "flashpan of pistol attached and aimed at gunpowder leg"...
What?
What rudimentary method of igniting a powder charge are we looking at here in "aiming'' a flashpan?
and if somehow you were on to something and could get such a concept to work in the best brief condition somehow...

Why set a trap in the first place?
Why would you use a 90 foot warning if it was a trap?
How did you rodent proof the set?
Mouse /rat/snake/ambitious youth walks wire , takes a bounce and "flashpan aimed at powder leg" poofs across the void and hits magically dry powder( from what distance? Through what conduit?) and kaboom!
You show up a year later by ship ; to see what?

So many questions.
1) gunpowder leg is gunpowder keg. K and L are next to each other typewriter wise, spell check could not catch.
2) You're right, any gun would do.
3) The mental image I have of the actual trap has a gun loaded with powder and wadding but no ball inserted directly into a powder KEG. Hot gases from ignition of charge ignite the keg. S Ball was a grenadier/sapper - he knew how to set it up. Wire the trigger closed, set a piece between hammer and charged flashpan with a wire pull. Yank it, piece comes out, hammer comes down, flashpan ignites, hot gases flow into powder keg. BOOM.
4) Assuming it really is a ammo cache, either you or a friendly or an enemy will dig it up. You or a friendly will know what stone means, enemy not.
Next, rats.
Gotta admit, didn't think of this.
Am guessing rats don't burrow 90 ft down to nest or for food. Do they eat gunpowder? Anyone?

 

[BennyV]

Might be some truth to S Ball finding some "treasure" as his history says he was "well" off. Not sure how well of course but for someone being a cabbage farming in that area unless he sold A LOT to ships coming by I wouldn't think there were enough people on mainland there in his time to able him to become well off from it. There are stories of him spending gold coins in town.. Plus bought another island near by from Vaughn one of the original three who discovered the MP. Supposedly for $5 but what if they was just for taxes purposes and it was really a lot more and that is how the money got shared. Plus Vaughn was also listed his Ball's estate manager when he past. What better way to keep the money hidden and out of tax system then to have someone he trusted and was possibly in co-hoots with for years to help the family he left behind with the money..

I’ve been saying this since day 1.

Was scratching around trying to have some sort of existence and stumbled upon it. As a former slave he was probably scared he would lose it so he cut in some white neighbors.