Great Seal Button Backmarks Help

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am assembling a list of US Army Great Seal button backmarks 1902-present.. This seems to be the most complete list available anywhere. With the help of TN members, I am occasionally adding and improving upon it. So far I have over 100 different backmarks. Anyone with a Great Seal button backmark or backmark variation not listed please post the pic and Ill add it. The thread is already so long its not necessary to add anything already pictured. Thanks.

This is how it all started:


I bought 2 bags of small Great Seal of US buttons for a buck at a flea market. Can someone help me date these backmarks? I believe they are all post 1902. I cant find anything else online.

1- Top row SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
3- Bottom CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.
4- WATERBURY BUTTON CO.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

Okay I want to know.

What's the cash worth?

I'm drooling...
8)

I dont know billybudd because I havent sold any. I did however quit tossing them in the surf.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

A member sent me a good link on N.S. Meyers. http://www.14to42.net/20streete042.html

While N.S. Meyers dates back to 1868, they were only in New York from 1906-2000. I will add the dates. Thanks cheyenne.

1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-1962
3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
6- US PRODUCTS CORP
7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
7b- R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
13- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* WWI
16- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
17- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
18- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK pre-WWI- 1930
19- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
20-METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. (painted black) 1940-1945
21-ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Button Date Help

Great info cheyenne Now this thread just need a count of members finds each category, that would be a good indicator of value. Then again if you find yourself tossing them in the surf you already know the value

Congrats bigcypresshunter on your 9,999 posts How come you didn't get a little star or something for your avatar Is 15,000 next level?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

Great info cheyenne Now this thread just need a count of members finds each category, that would be a good indicator of value. Then again if you find yourself tossing them in the surf you already know the value

Congrats bigcypresshunter on your 9,999 posts How come you didn't get a little star or something for your avatar Is 15,000 next level?

I was tossing them in the surf to see where they would end up because I thought they were modern and worthless. I have since found out they are WWI era and may have some value. This reminds me of another story. Scroll to the end Reply #312 Good Karma. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,107185.msg1810600.html#msg1810600

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Button Date Help

Good karma

So have you found any of the tossed buttons yet?

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Button Date Help

Looks like redlightblack & twistidd both found same new addition to the list. No date range on the button: CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO NEW YORK.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,260421.0.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

Looks like redlightblack & twistidd both found same new addition to the list. No date range on the button: CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO NEW YORK.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,260421.0.html

Ill add it to the list. Thanks! http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,254079.0.html

What does SPG stand for?


1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-1962
3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
6- US PRODUCTS CORP
7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
7b- R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
13- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* WWI
16- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
17- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
18- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK pre-WWI- 1930
19- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
20-METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. (painted black) 1940-1945
21-ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.
22-CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO. NEW YORK (WWII?)

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: Button Date Help

Looks like redlightblack & twistidd both found same new addition to the list. No date range on the button: CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO NEW YORK.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,260421.0.html

Ill add it to the list. Thanks! http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,254079.0.html

What does SPG stand for?

I think it stands for Spring. http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=...springs+company&d=UaYZjxlMTENk&icp=1&.intl=us

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

Big CY you could start an Id book soon for difficult quality marks. WTG I have used this thread a couple times to ID other buttons

or a website.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

Looks like redlightblack & twistidd both found same new addition to the list. No date range on the button: CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO NEW YORK.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,260421.0.html

Ill add it to the list. Thanks! http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,254079.0.html

What does SPG stand for?

I think it stands for Spring. http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=...springs+company&d=UaYZjxlMTENk&icp=1&.intl=us

Thanks. It also supports the WWII timeframe.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I found a few more Great Seal button backmarks to add to the list.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=12352387

1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-1962
3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
6- US PRODUCTS CORP
7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
7b- R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
13- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* WWI
16- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
17- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
18- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK pre-WWI- 1930
19- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
20-METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. (painted black) 1940-1945
21-ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.
22-CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO. NEW YORK (WWII?)
23- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *CONN.*
24 - * SUPERIOR QUALITY *
25- W.B. CO.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button Date Help

BigCypressHunter,

You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

HH!
-Moe

That link does not apply to more modern Great Seal buttons or is in error. If you notice under Scovill I have the same SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY backmark but Great Seal buttons are post 1902.

I discovered why 1865 SCOVILLE MF'G CO. WATERBURY backmarks are showing up on WWI Great Seal buttons. This link explains it.

http://inkspotantiques.com/shop/index.php?main_page=page&id=1

Keep in mind that using Scovill backmark lettering (including dots and stars) is not a foolproof method because Scovill often used old backmark dies to make newer buttons. Thus it is possible to have a World War I "Great Seal" button with an 1850 backmark.

 

[Montana Jim]

This is a great post... just sayin.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks but it may contain some errors. I probably wouldnt have cared but I bought those 2 ziplock bags of Great Seal buttons at the Flea Market and wanted to know the dates... It turns out they are mostly WWI.

Im adding a Scoville backmark to the list, with the 2 dots on each side of *WATERBURY*, because it is different.



1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-1962
3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
6- US PRODUCTS CORP
7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
7b- R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
13- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* WWI
16- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
17- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
18- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK WWI- 1930
19- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
20-METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. (painted black) 1940-1945
21-ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.
22-CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO. NEW YORK (WWII?)
23- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *CONN.*
24 - * SUPERIOR QUALITY *
25- W.B. CO.
26- SCOVILL MF'G CO. * WATERBURY * 1850- ?
27- SCOVILL MF'G CO. WATERBURY CT. 1870s-WWl

 

[72cheyenne]

This is a great thread. Kudos to taking the time to document each one. Are pics of all the backmarks on your list on this thread? I was trying to match them all up but gave up....(too much scrolling up and down...and I'm lazy ).

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This is a great thread. Kudos to taking the time to document each one. Are pics of all the backmarks on your list on this thread? I was trying to match them all up but gave up....(too much scrolling up and down...and I'm lazy ).

I wont add to the list without seeing a pic but in the beginning I didnt post them. I believe I have the others in my files. I will try to post a pic from now on.

It all started with those 2 bags of buttons.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I found online a pic of 76 Great Seal buttons for sale. It looks like backmarks I do not have. Can anybody read them? Some appear to say PHILA. http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=4860340

 

[72cheyenne]

I found online a pic of 76 Great Seal buttons for sale. It looks like backmarks I do not have. Can anybody read them? Some appear to say PHILA. http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=4860340

Let me work on that pic. I'll see if I can't enhance it some.

ADDED....I worked on the picture from the site, but it is too grainy to enhance. I'll try some more.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think I got the Phila button. It may be a HORSTMANN *** PHILA ***
http://forum.treasurenet.com/whites/index.php?topic=18168.0


1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-1962
3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
6- US PRODUCTS CORP
7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
7b- R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
13- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* WWI
16- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
17- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
18- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK WWI- 1930
19- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
20-METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. (painted black) 1940-1945
21-ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.
22-CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO. NEW YORK (WWII?)
23- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *CONN.*
24 - * SUPERIOR QUALITY *
25- W.B. CO.
26- SCOVILL MF'G CO. * WATERBURY * 1850- ?
27- SCOVILL MF'G CO. WATERBURY CT. 1870s-WWl
28- HORSTMANN *** PHILA *** 1893-1935

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I rewrote the list putting like backmarks together. Many dates are missing.



1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted) 1850-WWI
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY 1850-WWI
3- SCOVILL MF'G CO. * WATERBURY * 1850-WWI
4- SCOVILL MF'G CO. WATERBURY CT. 1870s-WWI
5- HORSTMANN *** PHILA *** 1893-1935
6- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. * 1849-1965
7- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *CONN.* pre 1965
8- WATERBURY COS INC CONN post 1965
9- W W W W (waterbury) modern
10- W.B. CO.
11- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- WWI
12- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1923
13- US PRODUCTS CORP
14- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO WWI
15 R. LIEBMANN MFG. CO.-NEWARK NJ-
16- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
17- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
18- D. EVANS CO. NO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1848-1945
19- ARNSTEIN SIMON & CO. * S.F. * WWI
20- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK * 1906-2000 (in business in NY)
21- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.* 1901-1920
22- AM. BUTTON CO *NEWARK, N.J.* 1902-1917
23- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. WWI
24- C KENYON CO. NEW YORK WWI- 1930
25- UNIQUE ART MFG CO. NEWARK, N. J.
26- ART METAL WORKS INC -NEWARK, N.J.- 1900-1930 approx.
27- METAL SPECIALTIES Co. ATTLESBURG, MASS. 1940-1945 (painted black)
28- CHAS. FISCHER SPG. CO. NEW YORK WWII?
29- * SUPERIOR QUALITY *