Great Seal Button Backmarks Help

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am assembling a list of US Army Great Seal button backmarks 1902-present.. This seems to be the most complete list available anywhere. With the help of TN members, I am occasionally adding and improving upon it. So far I have over 100 different backmarks. Anyone with a Great Seal button backmark or backmark variation not listed please post the pic and Ill add it. The thread is already so long its not necessary to add anything already pictured. Thanks.

This is how it all started:


I bought 2 bags of small Great Seal of US buttons for a buck at a flea market. Can someone help me date these backmarks? I believe they are all post 1902. I cant find anything else online.

1- Top row SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
3- Bottom CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.
4- WATERBURY BUTTON CO.

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Just in case you don't already know... your Great Seal button with cutout emblem-&-border crimped atop a "lined field" background is shown in the Albert button-book as button GI-103B.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Just in case you don't already know... your Great Seal button with cutout emblem-&-border crimped atop a "lined field" background is shown in the Albert button-book as button GI-103B.

Good to know.

Can you repeat the 3 military sizes of Great Seal buttons? Thanks.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I notice the price of Great Seal buttons on eBay is creeping up. I wonder if this thread has opened up interest to collectors. The John Haas sold for $20.50 and I have noticed some other backmarks selling from about $2 to $9.99 each..

 

[rayscott]

Albert Book

Just in case you don't already know... your Great Seal button with cutout emblem-&-border crimped atop a "lined field" background is shown in the Albert button-book as button GI-103B.

Thanks for the info. I need to get a copy of the Albert book.

Did you guys see the Great Seal Collar Disk I posted in Today's Finds. Found it on Sunday. I've been told it was for unassigned troops.

 

[Uncle Jeff]

I have also posted these finds just a couple days ago with little response, please help. I won these 6 buttons at a club meting and I don't know a thing about them.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/buttons/363130-so-what-did-i-win.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have also posted these finds just a couple days ago with little response, please help. I won these 6 buttons at a club meting and I don't know a thing about them.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/buttons/363130-so-what-did-i-win.html

Hello Jeff. The What Is It Forum is best for button identification or any identification for that matter. However your pictures are very poor. Your lighting is bad. I have found that diffused outside lighting on a cloudy day is the best. A sunny day is good too but watch your shadow.

They appear to be all post 1910 buttons. Great seal buttons are all 20th century. They were not made in the 19th century. Occasionly older backmarks will appear on 20th century buttons as companies use up old stock.

Great Seal button backmarks are fun to collect and you have a good start. The backmarks you listed are common, the value is probably about $1 each. Jaffe & Jaffe may be interesting if you can post a better pic. Dont forget to use the Macro setting.

My computer is slow and this site gives my IE fits but if yours is faster, you can scroll back a few pages for datelines on different backmarks.

 

[rayscott]

Found a tunic size rimless Great Seal button this weekend. The backmark is Hilborn-Hamburger Inc. N.Y.

 

[rockermike17368]

I have a coat size but not the cuff. Your dating is fairly close.

 

[rockermike17368]

Just an FYI to all, I will have a book coming out on Great Seal Buttons 1902 to the present. I have about 700 examples at this point. I am still searching for about 30 backmarks yet. Hopefully by next year it will be available.

 

[rockermike17368]

These are "re-faced" WWI buttons. After the darkened enamel buttons were discontinued in 1923 there were so many left over that they simply put new bright faces over the WWI buttons. I'm haven't confirmed this yet but I have a strong belief that Waterbury Button Co. or Scovill Mfg. Co. or both did the re-facing of these buttons. I count these as a separate variety.

 

[rockermike17368]

Hi All, Here is an updated list of Great Seals I'm looking for: Non-dug please....

B.B.Abrahams/Philadelphia
S.Appel & Co. (coat size)
E.A.Armstrong
Bernhard & Schrag & Co. (coat size)
Best & Co. (Any)
Brooks Brothers (any type or size)
Chapsal & Michaul/Paris
Clayton /Chicago
DeMoulin Bros. (coat size)
James C. Doran & Sons/Providence R.I.
Dusenbury & Schwab Inc./New York/229-4th Ave
Fa Ne Di Lorenzo/Firenze
Frateli Reanda/Roma
Greenwood Co./Detroit Mich
Hahn/Baltimore
Johnson /Milano (coat size)
Jennens & Co. (gilt)
D.Klein & Bros./Philadelphia
Frank J. Krupp/Washington
S&B Lederer Co./Providence R.I.
Lewis MS Co. San Antonio
W&S Lyon Co. NY
W.S.Mangre & Co./San Fransico Calif
Marshall Field /Chicago
McEnany & Scott NY Made in England
SN Meyer/Washington
B. Pasquale Co. /S.Fran.,Cal. (officers button with cut out rim & eagle)
Publix Theater Corp NY
Reliable Mfg Co./Newark NJ
Alfredo Roensch (Any, and w/ applied device)
Josh Starkey (listed in Johnson's book)
State Arsenal/Harrisburg PA
T.W.&W./Paris
Tiffany & Co. (any type or size)
Travis Merchantile Co./San Antonio Tx
Walcott Mfg. Co Providence R.I.
Wender & Goldstein Brooklyn NY
J.H.Wilson/Philadelphia

As always any help is appreciated! Email is [email protected] Thanks!

 

[rockermike17368]

Found some Great Seal buttons that have had new faces pressed on. In the pic, you can see the original front of the buttons under the broken refacing. Does anyone know which companies did this? Did the soldiers send their old buttons in to have it done or did the button company just sell them as refurbished?
View attachment 763449

These are "re-faced" WWI buttons. After the darkened enamel buttons were discontinued in 1923 there were so many left over that they simply put new bright faces over the WWI buttons. I'm haven't confirmed this yet but I have a strong belief that Waterbury Button Co. or Scovill Mfg. Co. or both did the re-facing of these buttons. I count these as a separate variety. Many backmarks but I believe the re-facing was done by one or two companies.

 

[rockermike17368]

Hello Mike. I dont believe I have any doubles on that list.
Do you have a DENVER UNIFORM CO / DENVER, COLO?
I just picked one up from Denver. I believe they were made only in 1907-1908.

I have a coat size button but, not the cuff. Your dating is fairly close. I'd be interested if you find another one.

 

[rockermike17368]

That is a rare button indeed and not on any of the lists. It may have come on a tux like this. ANTIQUE MILITARY WOOL TUX BRASS BUTTONS WITH TAILS,R (07/31/2010)...

There is mention of a W & S Lyon buttons here ANTIQUE MILITARY WOOL TUX BRASS BUTTONS WITH TAILS,R (07/31/2010)...

It is a 1930's to WWII era Officers overcoat button. A tux would be 20 or 23mm size. Overcoats are 28mm. Cuffs range from 13 to 16mm.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just an FYI to all, I will have a book coming out on Great Seal Buttons 1902 to the present. I have about 700 examples at this point. I am still searching for about 30 backmarks yet. Hopefully by next year it will be available.

Thats great. Let us know when its finished. I havent been able to post here lately.

 

[creskol]

Maybe I have overlooked it in the pages of info, but what does a great seal button with no backmark date to?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Maybe I have overlooked it in the pages of info, but what does a great seal button with no backmark date to?

You know there was a thread on here and BiggyC may remember -where a poster had a Great seal with no back-mark, i remember asking BiggyC if these could (with construction of the button dating to that period of course) could date to the 1902-1915ish period and i think CBG or BiggyC may have corrected me or something in that nature. I can't remember (got the CRS) but there was a manufacture who use to produce General Service buttons (post 1902 or 1909) with "no back-mark" and they also produced Great Seal buttons (probably with no back-marks) and i think they were bought out right around 1915 or something in that nature. I can't find the post right now - if i get time i can go through my posts and see if i can find it.. Also there were probably a dozen or so button manufactures who produced Great Seals so i may be barking up a tree with this post.... But - I do recall asking about the no back-marks on a Great Seal button but I am sure it is common for a Great Seal to have no back-mark even during the WWI and WWII time frame? Wish I knew more about Great Seals, i'm stuck with knowledge really only on General Service eagle buttons from the CW period.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have a coat size button but, not the cuff. Your dating is fairly close. I'd be interested if you find another one.

Thats the only Denver button I have. I purchased it in a small mixed lot.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe I have overlooked it in the pages of info, but what does a great seal button with no backmark date to?

I have quite a few blank Great Seal buttons. I would imagine they could range throughout the entire century. You may be able to date it by the rim or lack of a rim.

I remember identifying one particular company that used no backmark that Hut referred to but I think this was done by more than one company.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

These are "re-faced" WWI buttons. After the darkened enamel buttons were discontinued in 1923 there were so many left over that they simply put new bright faces over the WWI buttons. I'm haven't confirmed this yet but I have a strong belief that Waterbury Button Co. or Scovill Mfg. Co. or both did the re-facing of these buttons. I count these as a separate variety. Many backmarks but I believe the re-facing was done by one or two companies.

Thanks.