gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!! pre civil war??

[Mr Tuff]

i found this button at a 100+ old park, any help from the button masters would be appreciated.. thanks MR TUFF

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id

Its hard to see it. Does the eagle look like any of these?

 

[Mr Tuff]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id

Its hard to see it. Does the eagle look like any of these?

no but close. more pics might help......

 

[goldguru]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

dont think thats Modern Tuff ..

looks like the stamping cruder than the samples above

 

[oldfireguy]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

I don't think that is a general issue button and could be a state issued button. Maybe search your early state guard/militia units.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

What kind of back is that?

 

[Mr Tuff]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

What kind of back is that?

not sure, iv never seen anything like it before. was hoping the odd back would make it easier to ID. the back feel off when it came up to the light of day..almost did not even put it in the good pocket when i dug it. glad i did.. think it might be a cuff button but i have looked all over the net and can not find another. or info on it.... dying to date and ID this button.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

I searched eagles but cant match it. What is that on the eagles head? It must be a ribbon. I cannot match the shield.

 

[oldfireguy]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

I don't think the back is complete on that button. I think it's a three piece with the back missing.

 

[Mr Tuff]

Re: gold guilt eagle button need id. better pics added!!!

I don't think the back is complete on that button. I think it's a three piece with the back missing.

not sure but i found this pic of some revolutionary war button backs.. the top left looks similar

 

[goldguru]

HA yer gonna owe me a

Here ya go

http://www.greybirdrelics.com/staffEQ.jpg


about 1/2 way down under the heading NON Dug


http://www.greybirdrelics.com/Buttons.htm#Non-Dug Buttons


Looks right to me has the arrows & ? on the wrong claws like your Pic

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Interesting! I have just found the back to a button with the same attachement. I almost posted it. Now I know what it is. It was found on an ole skirmish site with my other junk. Thanks!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

HA yer gonna owe me a

Here ya go

http://www.greybirdrelics.com/staffEQ.jpg


about 1/2 way down under the heading NON Dug


http://www.greybirdrelics.com/Buttons.htm#Non-Dug Buttons


Looks right to me has the arrows & ? on the wrong claws like your Pic

Are you referring to the Staff Officers button? Wrong shield. You can click on the pic to enlarge.

 

[goldguru]

HA yer gonna owe me a

Here ya go

http://www.greybirdrelics.com/staffEQ.jpg


about 1/2 way down under the heading NON Dug


http://www.greybirdrelics.com/Buttons.htm#Non-Dug Buttons


Looks right to me has the arrows & ? on the wrong claws like your Pic

Are you referring to the Staff Officers button? Wrong shield. You can click on the pic to enlarge.

Only button i have found so Far BC which has the arrows grapsed by the right claw & the Oliveleaf? on the left.
so not saying a direct match here but getting closer to figuring out who used it for every other eagle button has the arrows in the LH claw.
I know the sheild wrong & the wings arnt the same as well but the period is correct for @ some point the arrows crossed over to the other side.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Only button i have found so Far BC which has the arrows grapsed by the right claw & the Oliveleaf? on the left.so not saying a direct match here but getting closer to figuring out who used it for every other eagle button has the arrows in the LH claw.
I know the sheild wrong & the wings arnt the same as well but the period is correct for @ some point the arrows crossed over to the other side.

I didnt even realize that. A big clue perhaps. Someone just mentioned in another post that some Great Seal eagles had the arrows and olive branches switched to indicate peace not war but I dont remember. I think it was Monty that mentioned it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States
http://www.ascho.wpafb.af.mil/additional_information/tioh_nyt_13jun2006.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

What about this 1782 die?
Check out the stubby wings and shield, arrows in right talon.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

According to legend, the eagle in the seal faced the arrow-holding talon in times of war and switched its stern gaze toward the olive branch in times of peace.

The eagle's glare did indeed get reversed — just once, by President Harry S. Truman in 1945. But only, it turns out, to correct the grievous heraldic error that President Rutherford B. Hayes had made 65 years before, when he designed the first seal to adorn White House invitations.

"In point of fact, the viewer's left is the dexter side, the honorable side on any shield," said Joe Spollen, head sculptor at the heraldry institute, which among its other duties nurtures rules and terminology from the Middle Ages. "The sinister side, on the viewer's right, is the less honorable."

And so Truman, after learning the truth from the director of the heraldry office at the time, switched the gaze from sinister to dexter, where it remains today.
http://www.ascho.wpafb.af.mil/additional_information/tioh_nyt_13jun2006.html

This needs additional reasearch. I dont understand the button from greybirdrelics with the arrows in the right talon..

 

[fortbball9]

If you look in Alberts Button book.
All of these General Staff buttons have the arrows in the right talon
GS 2,GS 3,GS 4,GS 5,GS 10,GS 11,GS 12, GS 13,GS 14,GS 15,GS 16,GS 17,GS 18,GS 21 and GS 22.
All of these General Staff Buttons with the arrows in the left talon
GS 6,GS 7,GS 8,GS 9,GS 19 and GS 20.
This type was issued from 1832 till 1902 when the Great Seal took over.
I have researched for this type and style and I can't even come close,the back doesn't look right
to me.To me it don't look like a General Staff Button.It resembles the style to me that has a pin that comes out the middle of the button.

http://www.jumpbackcollectibles.com...FOREIGN-WARS-Military-Pinback-Pin_359581.html
But that is just my opinion.

fortbball9

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If you look in Alberts Button book.
All of these General Staff buttons have the arrows in the right talon
GS 2,GS 3,GS 4,GS 5,GS 10,GS 11,GS 12, GS 13,GS 14,GS 15,GS 16,GS 17,GS 18,GS 21 and GS 22.
All of these General Staff Buttons with the arrows in the left talon
GS 6,GS 7,GS 8,GS 9,GS 19 and GS 20.

Why do some buttons have the arrows in the right talon and others in the left?

 

[fortbball9]

Why do some buttons have the arrows in the right talon and others in the left?

I can't answer that question.But, I will research and see if I can narrow down a answer.

fortbball9