Getting really warm - the Great Cave!

[swiftfan]

Well seeing that Swift was a sailor, he would have knowlege of ropes, pulleys and tackle. Those could be used to set large stones. I know I would make it so it was not easliy moved if I had a treasure stored there. Just make sure it is not booby trapped before you move a stone away from the entrance. Now on antoher note, Swifts journal mentions they stored some things and came back two years later, and everything was as it was before. Did it tell if they took what was left, or did they leave it?

PM me if you have any questions or email me at [email protected]
good luck, and be careful.

Matt James (a.k.a. Swiftfan)

 

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Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[swiftsearcher]

Matt, you bring up a GREAT POINT! TBH, the site is very close to where a "sign" I haven't made out is located on an old Swift Map I have. EVERYTHING on the map has been correct so far (except I haven't been able to search good for the Great Cave located on the map yet). The map is so precise on everything else however, I have a feeling this isn't what the "sign" represented.

I found some more clues out yesterday around the Turtle Back Rock (while showing it to two friends from KY). We found "Sue" carved into a rock and several Quantrill carvings around Swift's Turtle back rock. One thing I had overlooked is that there is a "baby" turtle back rock directly behind the large one!!! Kinda like a mommy turtle and baby turtle following. The Quantrill and Sue Munday carvings and gunsight in this area seems to point toward an area West of the Rich Mine, where I found a HUGE Skull Rock. That area seems to point to the area where I found the "vault"! In fact, the Quantrill and Sue Munday signs start around ten miles away (where I found the large heart rock) and where Swift and Company traveled through a large gap or canyon! It is my belief that when Sue Munday and Quantrill were hiding the wagon loads of gold, they dug up several of Swift's caches (afterall, Sue Munday was a direct descendant of John Munday and probably was privy of the cache sites Swift mentioned in his journal).

 

[swiftfan]

I'm not real familar with the Quantrill stories, however it seems like there was a story of a union payroll wagon robbed and hidden in a cave along Pine Mountian. I did not know of a Sue Munday, but by the mention of the carvings you have found, it seems like there may be something in your area. Try to remember that if there is a mine there, that It may have been known before Swift. The Indians, Spainish, French, all have been in these mountians, you may be dealing with carvings from different times laying all around each other. I suggest you make yourself a map. Get a topo copy of the area, and mark the locations. Remember your direction as you would be moving through the area, and see if you can arrive at a destination in the center of these markings. is it your cache site? It is a shame I can't help you more.But I'm here to help if you have any questions, or need any help.

-swiftfan-

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AHHHH! CORNSTALK! NAW... that is a MAP; of the "cave system" of THREE ROOMS. If ya found a cave... REMEMBER the THREE steps on da "pointer"/HEART rock... I had written TWO "posts" with MORE info, YESTERDAY, BUT! BOTH "posts" would NOT go through. Is THIS web-site "BUGGED"? HA!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

STILL here! Looked at the MAP... appears to have an
"entrance", where the "bulb" is... on top. THEN, as you travel in the cave, for a "bit"... FIRST
room, is on yer left; SOME ppl would stop HERE, if they found something... CARRY ON! BEYOND, the FIRST room (next to it), is the SECOND room, to yer right. SOME ppl would stop HERE; CARRY ON! You MAY have two "entrances" to the THIRD room on yer left, and past the 3rd room, the cave tunnels out, to the OTHER side of the hill/mountain... this is what I "see". The THREE GREAT rooms of the GREAT CAVE. Good Luck... HH! BTW, that is an OWL, with the MAP on it... and JESSE JAMES was small enough to be a "tunnel rat", as they were called in VietNam.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AAHHH! And, if it IS an OWL... the INCAS (Indians) used it as a "sign of DANGER!"). Exploring the GREAT CAVE would be dangerous work... BE CAREFUL!

 

[swiftsearcher]

Question about the Great Cave. I am in a situation where I believe that the Rich Mine might be in the Great Cave.

I know some of the Indians who helped Swift always stated that one of his Principal Mines was in the Great Cave (without looking, I believe it was BlueJacket and/or Cornstalk who stated this). I thought, according to some symbols on an old Swift Map I have that it was the Middle Mine. However, we have almost cleared out the 10 ft. entrance in the Rich Mine (thanks to Seth for the help), and it opens up into a large "chamber". We have not been in there yet, as about 3 ft. of the opening needs to be widened for us to enter. However, Seth did tie a light and digital camera to the end of his metal detector and we got a glimpse of the chamber past the 10 ft. long opening/tunnel. It appears to go Right and Left and the chamber looks rather large - maybe even large enough to stand up in, we cannot tell for certain.

Though I have not found the Middle Mine yet (I was saving it for last, as I thought the Great Cave Swift mentioned was there), judging by the area it lies, if it was a large cave system, it could go through the main ridge to the other side. The Rich Mine also could and is actually much closer to the main ridge.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are here Do you believe the Rich Mine is the mine spoken of that is actually in the Great Cave or could it have been another mine (the Middle Mine). I can rule out the first mine, the one they mined in 1761, before moving to the saddle gap (which contains the three Principal Mines). I can also rule out the West Mine as well. So, the mine located in the Great Cave, if those stories from the Indian Chiefs are correct, HAS to be either the Middle Mine or Rich Mine.

If it is in the Rich Mine, at least nobody since Swift and Co. have been in it. I do know who got the moulds and tools that were at the entrance. However, they did not enter past the ten ft. entrance, as it was half filled with dirt, which we have excavated for the most part (Heather and I before and now Seth and I recently). As soon as we get the first three ft. of the 10ft. opening widened, we will be able to get the last little bit of dirt, at the end of the 10ft. shaft out of the way and enter the chamber we saw on Seth's digital camera.

At least from my research on the Great Cave (not that there is much to research really), I have always heard that one has to crawl for around 10ft., then the cave opens up to a large chamber, where one can stand up and the cave has TWO paths. This fits the description PEFECTLY to what Seth and I were able to see on his camera! Also, I do know that ONE of Swift's Principal Mines was located in the Great Cave and read at least one source where an Indian Chief stated it was the Rich Mine (I would have to go though tons of my research to find this however). Again, the location I had pegged, from my map at least, as being the Great Cave was the Middle Mine. However, it is actually on another ridge system (not the main ridge) and I could have the meaning of the symbols incorrect!?? The only mine of Swift's Principal Mines that is located on the main ridge is the Rich Mine. I am now leaning to this being the location of the Great Cave also (but won't know until the weather cooperates and stays dry long enough for us to get back to the Rich Mine and finish excavating).

Again, feel free to type anything you know about the Great Cave, as I would love to know if anyone has read WHICH mine is suppose to be in the Great Cave.

If the two entrances branch off and go a long way, and branch off into different sections/trails, I did see on the History Channel a good way of not getting lost - the people exploring a cave system in Mexico (looking for flying humanoids) left chem lights to mark their way back - that seems like a Great way of not getting lost in a large cave system IMHO!

 

[swiftsearcher]

One last thing. While there seemed to be some carvings inside that have worn over the years and we couldn't tell for certain, there was one that stood out. To the left of the 10 ft. shaft/entrance was a perfect "C" carved rather deep. Anyone have an idea what this stands for? Cave? I don't really know and would love to hear any guesses one might have!

 

[Swifty]

To Swiftsearcher,
When you get into the "Rich mine or Principle mines", or the West mine etc., "show us all some a pics", of the silver veins Swift was working or some silver or gold ingots or bars, or some crowns or something, "tangible",... something "proving" Swift was working it, etc. You been saying for over a couple of years now of how you found everything and all I have seen is some carvings, cave entrances, and ball pein hammer and so on...etc. I can't keep waiting forever for your book to come out to see your proof. Hurry up and get it done, Sscheese. ( I know.... you have tons of info to sift through )
I want to go there to check it out for myself to determine for myself if you, in fact have found the Swift mines. You can take some pics close up of some of these things "you say" you have found, without revealing where you are at or showing to much of your surroundings.
If you find the Great Cave of the Shawnee, there will be many indian burials, artifacts etc, inside the cave, since the indians used this cave to bury their dead. Show some pics of these things, as well, "in there original setting", it should be awesome. "OK"
I just keep hearing how you are getting close and finding everything of Swifts, but you never show us anything tangible, "wheres the proof", where's the treasure!!! Get the digging and the book done so we can see it.
I'm getting tired of hearing this and that, or why you can't get into it, the (cave/mine) because it's to narrow... etc., or the caches are all gone or the moulds have been removed and have been dug up,... etc. ssheese!!!
Show us something, the Buffalo Rock with their initials cut in it, so we can scutinized it,... or the Chessnut Burr rock or something.
All this talk is getting old


(In response to your most recent post about the Middle mine.)

"Swift's description of the Middle mine"...
The Buffalo rock according to Swift's journal, states that,... "Within a couple of hundred feet west, of what the men called the, "middle mine" is a Buffalo rock, we cut our names on it. When you stand up above the Buffalo rock, about a mile west you can see a door or hole in the cliff and the sky beyond, we called it the "Lighthouse".

Since "you say" you have found the, "Rich mine or "Principle mines" on the "main ridge... but have not located the middle mine".

Then by looking west you should find a Lighthouse, "in many of your earlier post "you say" you have found a Lighthouse in "your area"... to the west",
if so,... then the Buffalo rock, would be about 1 mile east of the Lighthouse,...

(or a couple of hundred feet west of the Middle mine, if you read Swift's description about the Middle mine.)

"You" have also said in many of your earlier post that "you found" the Buffalo rock", if so,...then you would know to look east of the lighthouse for the Buffalo rock and then east of the Buffalo rock just up over the hill a couple of hundred feet... to find the the middle mine. I don't see why you haven't found the Middle mine, if you say you have found the Buffalo rock and Lighthouse, It should be easy to find the Middle Mine according to Swift's description.
The middle mine has to be nearby all the other mines and Buffalo rock, as Swift gives all his directions from his rockhouse to the mines, as being within, approx, 250 poles of each other, which is about 2/3 of a mile in area. (except for one mine being 3 to 4 miles north)
If you have found the western "Lighthouse", and buffalo rock, in your area like "you say", the buffalo rock and the middle mine will be east of the lighthouse, and west of the other, "Principle mines or "Rich mine" you say you have found on the main ridge that you are presently on in the far east.

P.S
"Like you tell everybody else.... "extroadinary claims require extraordinary proof" and I ain't seen anything but excuses and twisted facts, so far!!!

L37something-aka-Swifty

 

[swiftsearcher]

"Like you tell everybody else.... "extroadinary claims require extraordinary proof" and I ain't seen anything but excuses and twisted facts, so far!!!

First off L37, I NEVER made the above statement.

Also, please research the Swift Journals before you attack me. The buffalo rock is a few hundred ft. from the RICH MINE - NOT THE MIDDLE MINE AS YOU STATED! Your statement is below, in case you edit your original post to erase the fact that you are WRONG!

"Swift's description of the Middle mine"...
The Buffalo rock according to Swift's journal, states that,... "Within a couple of hundred feet west, of what the men called the, "middle mine" is a Buffalo rock, we cut our names on it. When you stand up above the Buffalo rock, about a mile west you can see a door or hole in the cliff and the sky beyond, we called it the "Lighthouse".



Sorry I cannot get out EVERY day as I have to rest after a day or two out (I am a DISABLED VETERAN and cannot get around the woods like some people - sorry!), the only things I have not found yet are the Middle Mine, Great Cave and Teakettle Rock. I know where they are, but ran into the KGC vault last year and I have spent a lot of time there with some friends trying to gain entry.

Don't worry, I will post some cool stuff soon (but, of course, I will NOT post a room full of treasure if I find it and it is still there - I might post a handful of crowns or a bar or two, that would be the extent of it, as I assume MANY would agree it would be FOOLISH to post Millions of dollars worth of treasure, if it is still there).

BTW - I have seen some of YOUR CLAIMS on here as well L37 with NO PROOF! Just look at the inside of the rich mine in my first post in this thread - that should be PROOF ENOUGH! In case you don't have the facts straight AGAIN, the RICH MINE was located in a bear's den - the hole on the right is going back into the cave and ore veins (there are TWO VEINS in the RICH MINE - one thin and one thick, just in case you need educated AGAIN!).

If you have followed my posts as you state you have, you would know that I have begged for help on here, as the two people who help me when they can live far away. Finally, Seth Robbins has helped me and is helping me excavate the Rich Mine and explore the chambers to see if the storehouse cave might be here as well. Seth has seen the area now. Seth made the following statement in an e-mail to me today about the Rich Mine's location I found and he has been to (I hope you don't mind me posting this quote from your e-mail Seth, if you read this. This L37 guy is simply being ludicrous however and doesn't know what he is even talking about - just look at where he states the Middle Mine is the one near the Buffalo Rock and Lighthouse Rock, when it is the RICH MINE!).

Man that fits this place exactly!!!

One last time also - the ONLY reason I am waiting to put my book out is that I want to find the GREAT CAVE (or storehouse) first! I would be ignorant to put a DETAILED book out and give someone else the location. Sure, things might be gone from the storehouse now. However, I want to make sure before putting any book out or giving many people the location of everything! This is COMMON SENSE! BTW - the hammer was looked at by some experts in Colonial Williamsburg and is said to be a ball peen type hammer used in Silversmithing and dates BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR! Also, the locust has been proven to be from the mid 1700's and LOCUST! Don't worry L37, there will be MUCH MORE PROOF in my book as well!

All quotes from others were put in "Glow" font in this message.

For all the others out there who are really interested in my progress, I will post the results from Sunday's expedition here on Monday. Who knows, there might be some pics of a find or find(s) as well - just don't expect any of a cavern full of treasure however!

 

[Swifty]

To Swiftsearcher,
I modified this post to respond to your most recent post on August 3rd and August 1st, to respond to your be-littlement of my character and my research. As everyone can take note of above and below this post.

Ya know, Swiftsearcher, in the very beginning when "I" requested Tnet to start this Forum for Johnathan Swift's Lost Silver Mines, I believe you where the first one to come in and post something on Swift. I thought "cool" here's someone who is interested in Swift, but when you came into the forum for the first time you posted that you had found everything, "knew everything", etc. And ever since you have played out to be the ultimate authority on the subject ever since.
Because you are writing a book and just want everyone to know the truth, Scheese, In my opinion, I think you want people to think you are right, to make a scenic attraction out of the Swift mines, so you can make money off of it like everyone is doing along the Mountain Parkway with fake gem mining places etc., and in Ky, with historical sites, areas, legends, etc., just my opinion.

Nobody in here can say a word or present their findings without you telling them they are "WRONG" And I know you will have a nasty rebuttal to this message I am writting to you and try to disprove everything I say.

My proof: (How Swiftsearcher, has discredited my posts, etc.)
Just after I began my first post in the beginning threads in this forum, on ("Johnathan Swift's Lost Silver Mines-Carvings"), Swiftsearcher discredited my research, just because I left out a few monumental rocks which I forgot to mention, because there are many rocks Swift mentions in the "many" journals, on the subject. He bashed my research and has done it ever since,...

Re: John Swifts Lost Silver Mines (carvings)
To all, here is how "Swiftsearcher" responded to my first post, this is how he discredited me, and thinks he knows it all, my screenname at that time was Johnny's Lighthouse. I deleted most of my post because, since he tears my's research up and interjects his stuff, I fiqure why give him my findings and facts for him to twist and manipulate and discredit my words, to make himself look correct, let him work for it...see below

My proof...
Here is Swiftsearchers response to my first post on Johnathan Swift Silver Mines,
Reply To This Topic #17 Posted Jan 09, 2008, 04:02:30 PM Quote:

Going through JL's original post above (it all runs together and I have never read through it all until now), the BIGGEST rock landmarks he omitted were the Turtle Back Rock and Chestnut Burr Rock. I have found the TB Rock, Lighthouse Rock (which IS West of the mines) and several other landmarks.

One mistake I noticed is JL listed a rock leaning against a clift. Well, Swift never mentioned this. He mentioned a two rocks leaning together with a creek flowing under them that is near the rockhouse he stayed in (which is 100 yards above the furnace rockhouse). I have pics of this as well! The only thing is the creek has dried up that runs into furnace creek below the rockhouse, but one can clearly make out the rocks and old creek bed.

(I will interject here to point out some notes taken from one of the many Swift journals, Swift states, I crossed a rock bridge and the water flowed under it and they we continued west to find the Indian trace. Swift also says; Quote, The entrance to one of the mines is in between a rock that learns against the cliff which looks as if it had fallen from above, go in between them and you will find the entrance to one of the mines), there are many journals, were swifts give direction and what to look for to find the mines, but I quess mine is the wrong journal and Swiftsearchers is the right one.

Also the circle carving on a flat rock is NOT the mines -this happened when Swift had to bury some crowns on his journey back home and is 4-5 days away from the mines.

[Again I will interject, there are many circle carvings found in and around the Red River Gorge area, that are documented, and many historic markers along the roads near Stanton and Campton Kentucky, which state Swift's presence in the area. But again I am wrong and according to Swiftsearcher, probably none of my research pertains to Swift. Swift also says in his journal, to be brief, "We were bothered by indians and buried a cache of silver at the mouth of a large creek that flowed in a south direction, we cut a triangle on a nearby rock to mark the spot". Swift also states, to be brief, he buried several other caches that he mentions in his journal, such as near a blue rock with three hash marks on it, and also on a creek flowing in an easterly direction, and some other caches as well. And by the way Swiftsearcher has claimed to have found all of these things I mention and has never shown any proof. Everythjing I post is "Wrong", I quess according to Swiftsearcher

Also, a lot of the other carvings JL mentions, Swift did NOT. These are probably carvings from the Indians, French, Spanish, moonshiners, etc. But, NOT Swift!

(Again I will interject, I did not say that Swift did all the carvings I presented, but that the carvings I did present were related to the Swift mines and were done by others who knew of the mines. I hope people will notice how he has taken my post and twisted and tried to manipulate my words and what I wrote or was actually saying. This is what he does to people's research to make his claim look correct)
Bottom Line - If ANYONE says they found Swift's Mine, and do NOT mention seeing a Chestnut Burr Rock that is right above the mine, the mine/cave they found is NOT Swift's! THIS is the key! As soon as I find the rich mine (and I am REAL CLOSE - just dread trecking through the rough steep country on my bad leg and hip), I will write my book and include a pic of the Chestnut Burr Rock. This landmark will be the definitive proof for anyone finding Swift's rich mine! I was planning to put the furnace waterfall on the cover of my book, as it is beautiful. However, the Chestnut Burr Rock might be a good pic for the cover as well!

(Again...I have not seen any pictures from Swiftsearcher's of a chestnut burr rock as of yet, or a blue stone with hash marks, 'note", many rocks can look like a chestnuts and blue stones with hash marks can be faked) all i have seen is just some pictures of caves and other stuff he claims to be the Swift mines, speculation
So I want everyone to see that it is pretty apparent and evident how Swiftsearcher cuts my research apart, because I may have left out a fact or two. I have seen in Swiftsearchers post where he has done this to "Ki's post or research as well, one of my Tnet friends who will tell you the same thing, (go ahead and read all the post people and decide for yourselves), he has done it to all of us every time we post something. All I can say to you Swiftsearcher is go ahead on with you bad self, people will eventually find out who is correct and who isn't.

Again... Swiftsearcher the proof up above shows that no sooner than I posted my research you went through and scutinized everything I had researched for many years on Swift and dominated the thread, as you have in all the other threads as well. You cut my/others research apart and gave reasons why I/we were wrong...people go see posts. You did this "because I forgot to mention the chestnut burr rock", etc., in one of my post, when discussing monumental rocks etc. And there were many other remarks where you scutinized my carvings and petroglyph research,...people see other post, for your education Swiftsearcher there are many carvings that pertain to the Swift mines, and they are left in more than one area.
(Go back and read all your post and see how you dis-credited me and others who have posted things as well, from the very beginning, I think they will agree with me, that you were the first one to attack many people's research in this forum)

As for my credentials and character that you have attacked me on in the past, I am 52yrs old and have researched JS since I was 17yrs old. I like you have been to many places and I have heard and read much litiature on it. I have talked with many authors, as well, I have read all of Mike Steely's work on the mines, as well as, Ralph Volker's and I am familiar with all of Henson's work and many other treasure hunters work, as well as, the history of the families and descendents of some of Swifts men, Collins History of Kentucky, Draper Manuscripts, D. Boone, Colonel Tye, Renfro, Filson, Stoner, etc. and many, many other people, and folklore and countless journals on Swift. I am familiar with all the indian legends on the mines, as well, Wilenaw whose son was Doublehead the Great Cherokee Chief, father of Cornblossom, the great war women, whom the whites use the term (Princess), Chief Charlie Bluejacket, of the Shawnee, etc., I could go on and on. I have followed all your post and "have heard" everything you have ever mentioned on the Swift Legend at one time or another, and some facts you haven't mentioned, which I won't reveal". You are not the only person who has studied Swift extensively. We all realize there is much distorted and twisted facts on the legend as well, and some of us are just as intelligent as you to fiqure things out.

To let you know a few more things about me, I am a graduate geologist from NKU, with much mine, mineral and geology experience, as well as, an amatuer archaeologist, not to mention an expert in topographical research and other mapping techniques. I am also a member of the Cincinati Grotto Chapter (cavers) or Spieliological Society, as well as, an avid outdoorsman highly skillled in the wilderness, who does get around quite well and have done extensive field research on Swift. But according to you I don't know what I am talking about and in you and your treasure buddy's own words, I am a "Ludicrist" and always wrong about everything I have ever posted".

Another thing, I have way more education and experience on the Swift Mines than you will ever have and you just having 6 years and some army training is some pretty poor credentials if you ask me. I have a a special ops friend, like you, who was in the service, and done navigation, not mention people who learned skills while in the service and still hade to attend a university to get their degrees, and most of them didn't have the high grades I had.
To come out and say I found everything in six years is pretty amazing, when many men have looked for over 240 years and have not found it, this implies that your are better than everyone who has ever looked for it and you did it in 6 years, with no proof, which if you ask me is alot of POOH
( Again go back and read where you have discredited me in my past post, not to mention others you have done it too.)

"I have never" told anybody in here they were wrong, or attacked them or discredited them about there research until after they scutinized my research like you have, so why shouldn't I get irate like your Buddy Ralph did when I finnally posted something, he propbably had not be paying attention of how you bashed mine/others research, "you are learning", it is only natural when you attack people and do this to people. go see!

We are all passionate about our research and we all have our own ideas and research as to where the mines might be, there are many areas and copies of journals, maps and possible legend areas, etc. stating differint facts for Johnathan Swift's Lost Mines, (Upper, middle and lower.) There are many areas in Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and W. Virginia, that can fit Swift's description of the mine area, monument rocks, etc.

Just like me and just like you, we have made our claims, because we think we are right about our finds. But really me or you have never really actually presented "overwhelming proof of our discovery", we have shown pictures of many differint things, caves , carvings, tools, etc., making claims, documenting, authenticating things, but nothing definitive that proves anything authentic on Johnathan Swift, we have shown no real treasure, artifacts, viens of silver, authenic Swift crowns, silver bars, caches, moulds, etc. and anyone can get silver samples and claim it to be Swift's this proves nothing. Both of our research is very good and we are passionate about it. But really neither of us can really make the claim that we found Swift's Mines until there is overwhelming proof, which neither of us has given.

But you don't see me in here printing millions of words and taking pictures of caves etc, and making countless claims saying they are in fact Swift's, like you, declaring you are absolutely right and I and everyone else is wrong. I made one post where I simply say: Swift Upper Mines Found
Posted Jun 10, 2009, 02:09:17 PM

Hey Ki, and All
Swift's "upper mines" found using the carving/survey or compass rock on LDC and a few other carvings. I found the spot that many of the carvings pertain to. GCS nearby the mines, other carvings in the area pertain to it as well. If and when anybody does find it, you better keep it a secret or the landowners or law enforcement/feds will get it all. The secret is safe with me, "like it has been for close to 240yrs." The thrill of the hunt. When I have some solid evidence, I will show it to ya'll.
Sincerely,
L37something -aka- Swifty -aka- Johnny's Lighthouse...

I deleted many of my post and edited some of them because of the scutiny I got from you and others. My finds are real and I believe authenic like you claim yours to be. That is why I have my doubts about you finding John Swifts lost Silver Mines, (Upper mines), and you have you doubts about my claim as well.

The reason I posted the way I did in my last post is because I was tired of getting cut down and my post being scutinized and being told I was, "Wrong". And every time you post, you go on and on and make claims about this or that and say when my book comes out I will reveal everything. I could write a book too, but have chosen not to at this moment because in order to do so I would have to make much of my research public, revealing the area of where "I" think the mines are, giving away my spot after all my hard work. I like you want the chance to investigate first for myself before making it public knowledge. (And I will show definitive proof as I get it and not speculation, like you.)

I am waiting for your book with many others in here because we want to come see, if in fact you have found them and the great cave. I know you don't want to give your area away until you can investigate everything, or show any amounts of treasure, but you will have too to authenticate the claims you make, etc., "well it is the same for me too, "and I will show everything when the time presents itself" and not spew millions of words like you have without proof. We need extraordinary proof to make extraordinary claims, "as we say in here" and I am sorry it was not you who said this, as I was told, but this is what they said to me when I posted something. I will not give out any latitude or longitude co-ordinates or even mention the county I am in until I investigate as well, just like you.

You say you have been begging people to help you ever since you been in here and I would have helped you but when you discredited my research and made yourself out to be the ultimate authority and you make us/me out to be less than you , and me/others are wrong except you, you belittle us and offend us/me, and others in here have told me this as well, and there are others in here who discredit some of us/me, as well, not just you.

So this is why I posted the way I did, to give you a little bit of your own medicine, and now you see how it feels. You retaliate and want to attack me and blame me for attacking you, saying even more stuff about me to discredit me, as you have done from the very beginning of the threads in this forum.

But even so I am not mad at you and I commend you for being a Vietnam Veteran, and I thank you for what you did for our country! And I wish you much luck on your discovery of the Swift mines. And I would help you if I could but unfortunately you know it all, so you don't leave much room for me or others to help you.

Man brother, you must have an open mind to others research and not discredit and think you know it all, because you could be wrong, as well as, "me", in our findings and claims on the Swift mines.

P.S.
I was formally going to apologize to you Swiftsearcher, not out of weakness but as a man, but after reading you last response of August 1st and Aug. 3rd to this post, I decided not to, because I realized no matter, what I say I am not talking to a man with reason.
I also hope others who read this message will be open-mined as well, to each others research, and not bash eachother, so we all can have a good time, converse, exchange ideas, without cutting each other down and enjoy our dream of finding lost treasures, etc.
I want every one to know that this is my last post on Tnet because after this and everything that has been said between me and Swiftsearcher it will be no fun or enjoyment for me to come into the forum on Swift, because I know Swiftsearcher will continue to discredit me, but I quess in my opinion, this was his motive for discrediting my research, to drive me off so he can continue to be/look like the ultimate authority on the Swift Legend. In my opinion probably to make money on the Swift legend by promoting a book or a fake scenic attration, as many are doing in Ky with historical lengends, areas sites, just my opinion, etc. one other thing Swiftsearcher when your book does come out I will use it in my Outhouse.

L37something-aka-Swifty-aka- Johnny's Lighthouse

 

[swiftsearcher]

L37,

I didn't read you entire post - just skimmed through it. So, I will post a more detailed rebuttal later (have to take my father to the doctor now).

However, I just had a great conversation with my friend and partner, Ralph Hurst. Ralph is irate you always attack me and DEMAND PROOF (more than I have given) when, YOU, YOURSELF CLAIMS TO HAVE FOUND THE MINES AND PROVIDE NO PROOF WHATSOEVER (NOT EVEN ONE PIC)! As Ralph stated, I only provide some of the pics to keep everyone informed and out of kindness, as I know several want to see some of the pics. I am under NO OBLIGATION to prove anything to anyone - especially someone, such as yourself, who attacks me constantly!

Again, I will extend my offer to you to take a sample of ore from YOUR RICH MINE and I will take a sample of ore from the REAL RICH MINE I found and we will have them assayed! I will wager any amount with you up to $100,000. It is quite simple, as the ore from the REAL RICH MINE is suppose to be almost PURE, so the sample with the highest content of Silver will be the winner! You can go with me when I get my sample and we will put it in a sealed bag and send it out that day and I will do the same with you and your sample (so, there cannot be any samples sent that are taken elsewhere - bought, salted with Silver, etc.)! Put up or shut up is all I ask! Again, the wager can be ANY AMOUNT UP TO $100,000 (though, I wouldn't do it for less than a grand)! And, the loser will pay or reimburse the winner any/all costs occured in the process (mileage, shipping, assaying fees, etc.).

Just as we discussed YOU are the one who has attacked me, NOT the other way around. What I have done in your posts is POINT OUT WHERE YOU WERE WRONG (simply read the above post from me and you will see where I pointed out another ERROR from you regarding the Journals!). Obviously, you don't even know what the journals state! So, how can you claim I am wrong and you are correct?

One last note, you state YOU want to see more proof that what pics I have provided and information I have given. This is VERY HIPOCRITICAL OF YOU! Just look at the thread YOU started below with NO INFORMATION OR PICS WHATSOEVER! I will post more tonight about this and your ignorance of the Swift Journals (stating things wrongly from them). All one has to do is look at the errors in your statements from the Swift Journals and realize you don't know what you are talking about!!!!! Oh, you state how long you have hunted for Swift's Mines, etc. etc. (yet you don't know the entries from the journal correctly), what about this statement from me - I first started searching in the Winter of 2006 and found the RICH MINE April 25, 2008!!!! Do you know why? - I FOLLOWED THE DIRECTIONS FROM THE SWIFT JOURNALS CORRECTLY! You can obviously hunt for 30+ years and find nothing, such as yourself. However, I learned from my six years in the military to FOLLOW DIRECTIONS and that is what I did when I found the Principal Mines (and the mine the crew mined first as well)!

Swift Upper Mines Found
Posted Jun 10, 2009, 02:09:17 PM Quote
Hey Ki, and All
Swift's "upper mines" found using the carving/survey or compass rock on LDC and a few other carvings. I found the spot that many of the carvings pertain to. GCS nearby the mines, other carvings in the area pertain to it as well. If and when anybody does find it, you better keep it a secret or the landowners or law enforcement/feds will get it all. The secret is safe with me, "like it has been for close to 240yrs." The thrill of the hunt. When I have some solid evidence, I will show it to ya'll.

Sincerely,
L37something -aka- Swifty...

 

[swiftsearcher]

L37, I went through your above attack a little more in depth this morning (before I go out to the REAL RICH MINE to try and gain enty) and I could write a book simply pointing out your errors. However, I will try and make my points brief. However, with all the ERRORS you have stated in your posts, I don't see how anyone can take you seriously anyway - I have read over 30 different journals during my search and EVERY ONE OF THEM STATE THE BUFFALO ROCK IS WITHIN A FEW HUNDRED FT. OF THE RICH MINE - NOT THE MIDDLE MINE, AS YOU STATED IN ERROR!!!

In the below post, you state that I have pointed out SEVERAL ERRORS you have made. This is TRUE, as I tried to keep you from looking like an idiot, as anyone who has only read Steely's book knows what you have stated is incorrect (like the buffalo rock being near the Middle Mine, instead of the RICH MINE!). Also, I didn't want someone new to the search to get the wrong information from YOU! Also, you deleted your posts b/c I pointed out they were INCORRECT in EVERY Swift Journal! I know some things are worded a little differently from journal to journal since they have been copied incorrectly over the years, however, EVERY ONE STATES THE BUFFALO ROCK IS NEAR THE RICH MINE AND THE WEST MINE IS 50 POLES SOUTH OF THE FURNACE ROCKHOUSE (ANOTHER ERROR I POINTED OUT IN ONE OF YOUR POSTS - WHERE YOU STATED SOMETHING LUDICROUS ABOUT GOING 50 POLES WEST TO FIND THE RICH MINE!)

Nobody in here can say a word or present their findings without you telling them they are "WRONG" And I know you will have a nasty rebuttal to this message I am writting to you and try to disprove everything I say.

I deleted most of my post because, since he tears my's research up and interjects his stuff, I fiqure why give him my findings and facts for him to twist and manipulate and discredit my words, to make himself look correct, let him work for it
In regards to your statements below. Ki and I were at differences of opinion about whether Swift worked the Upper or Lower Mines. After I pointed out that the journals all state Swift went Southwest along a great ridge, Ki looked back in his journals and found out I was correct - that Swift worked the LOWER MINES, as going SOUTHWEST puts one below the group that went West! I even have the PM that Ki sent me stating I was correct and wishing me luck! I simply have pointed out some facts from the journals that yourself and a couple others had written incorrectly! You should be thankful I did, as it would save you time searching in the WRONG AREAS!

I have seen in Swiftsearchers post where he has done this to "Ki's post or research as well, one of my Tnet friends who will tell you the same thing, (go ahead and read all the post people and decide for yourselves), he has done it to all of us every time we post something. All I can say to you Swiftsearcher is go ahead on with you bad self, people will eventually find out who is correct and who isn't.

As for your remarks below - again, I was simply pointing out ERRORS in what YOU typed! Instead of letting you go on a wild goose chase, I tried to HELP! Also, I didn't want anyone new to Swift to have the WRONG information you typed!


Again... Swiftsearcher the proof up above shows that no sooner than I posted my research you went through and scutinized everything I had researched for many years on Swift and dominated the thread, as you have in all the other threads as well. You cut my/others research apart and gave reasons why I/we were wrong...people go see posts. You did this "because I forgot to mention the chestnut burr rock", etc., in one of my post, when discussing monumental rocks etc. And there were many other remarks where you scutinized my carvings and petroglyph research,...people see other post, for your education Swiftsearcher there are many carvings that pertain to the Swift mines, and they are left in more than one area.
(Go back and read all your post and see how you dis-credited me and others who have posted things as well, from the very beginning, I think they will agree with me, that you were the first one to attack many people's research in this forum)
I have NEVER attacked you as a person or your credentials - I ONLY ATTACKED THE ERRORS IN YOUR POSTS (Please go back and find out for yourself)! Also, if you have read all of these works, you SHOULD know that the Buffalo Rock is near the RICH MINE, NOT THE MIDDLE MINE AS YOU STATED! YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT THE WEST MINE IS 50 POLES SOUTH OF THE FURNACE ROCKHOUSE AS WELL!

As for my credentials and character that you have attacked me on in the past, I am 52yrs old and have researched JS since I was 17yrs old. I like you have been to many places and I have heard and read much litiature on it. I have talked with many authors, as well, I have read all of Mike Steely's work on the mines, as well as, Ralph Volker's and I am familiar with all of Henson's work and many other treasure hunters work, as well as, the history of the families and descendents of some of Swifts men, Collins History of Kentucky, Draper Manuscripts, D. Boone, Colonel Tye, Renfro, Filson, Stoner, etc. and many, many other people, and folklore and countless journals on Swift. I am familiar with all the indian legends on the mines, as well, Wilenaw whose son was Doublehead the Great Cherokee Chief, father of Cornblossom, the great war women, whom the whites use the term (Princess), Chief Charlie Bluejacket, of the Shawnee, etc., I could go on and on. I have followed all your post and "have heard" everything you have ever mentioned on the Swift Legend at one time or another, and some facts you haven't mentioned, which I won't reveal". You are not the only person who has studied Swift extensively. We all realize there is much distorted and twisted facts on the legend as well, and some of us are just as intelligent as you to fiqure things out.

In your statements below - YOU ATTACK MY CREDENTIALS - NOT the other way around! As for education, I have a BS from UVA in Business with a minor in accounting and my IQ is 139, so how do you know you have more edcuation and are smarter than I?

Another thing, I have way more education and experience on the Swift Mines than you will ever have and you just having 6 years and some army training is some pretty poor credentials if you ask me.

Regarding your statements below, I never stated I found EVERYTHING! I have found THREE of the FOUR PRINCIPAL MINES AND THE TWO FURNACE ROCKHOUSES AS WELL AS ALL THE MONUMENT ROCKS IN THEIR RIGHT LOCATIONS EXCEPT THE TEAKETTLE ROCK! Also, I have provided MORE PROOF ON HERE THAN YOU AND A FEW SELECT MEMBERS HAVE SEEN EVEN MORE PROOF (WITH SOME EVEN GOING TO SEVERAL LOCATIONS WITH ME)! You did not post even ONE pic in your thread where you stated you found the Rich Mine! At least I posted a pic of the inside of the Rich Mine - anyone familiar with the journals and knows it is in a bear's den, can tell the pic is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! As I stated, I simply followed directions and listened to some people who knew what they were talking about - one of whom was very helpful and I will give kudos to in my book!

To come out and say I found everything in six years is pretty amazing, when many men have looked for over 240 years and have not found it, this implies that your are better than everyone who has ever looked for it and you did it in 6 years, with no proof, which if you ask me is alot of POOH
( Again go back and read where you have discredited me in my past post, not to mention others you have done it too.)

You are correct in your statements below - I HAVE PROVIDED MORE PROOF AND PICS THAN YOU (AND EVEN MORE TO CERTAIN MEMBERS I TRUST IN PRIVATE AND EVEN MORE TO CERTAIN MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN AT SOME OF THE SITES WITH ME!)! Yet, YOU state I have provided NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, when, again, in your thread about YOU finding the Rich Mine, you provided NOT ONE PIC OF ANYTHING!!!!!


But you don't see me in here printing millions of words and taking pictures of caves etc, and making countless claims saying they are in fact Swift's, like you

Regarding your statement below, you deleted your posts b/c others and myself pointed out YOU ERRORS, which were WAY OFF from any Swift Journal out there!


I deleted many of my post and edited some of them because of the scutiny I got from you and others.

Sorry, I NEVER said I was a Vietnam Vet - I was in the Military during the GULF WAR!

But even so I am not mad at you and I commend you for being a Vietnam Veteran

I do have an open mind. I listened and still listen to those who actually know what they are talking about. This is why I was able to find 3 of the 4 Principal Mines so quickly! However, I have simply pointed out SEVERE ERRORS in your posts that are WAY OFF from any Swift Journal and you attack ME for pointing these out!

Man brother, you must have an open mind to others research and not discredit and think you know it all, because you could be wrong, as well as, "me", in our findings and claims on the Swift mines.

Man, talking about turning things around! I have simply pointed out ERRORS you have typed that are WAY OFF from any Swift Journal - anyone who only has a copy of one of Henson's books or Steely's book can realize you are WAY OFF with the Buffalo Rock and your statement about the West Mine! People pointed out to me that the hammer I found was a Ball Peen and NOT a Chasing Hammer as I had thought. What did I do? I let Ralph take the hammer to Colonial Williamsburg and get some EXPERTS' opinions on it. Turns out, it was a Ball Peen Hammer, but those were used for the SAME PURPOSE as a Chasing Hammer! Also, it DEFINITELY dates BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR and is LIKELY TO BE FROM THE MID 1700's! I could have gotten on here and attacked these people who pointed this out to me and question their knowledge, as you have done with me, however, I was man enough to get an expert's opinion and see for myself! I wanted to be 100% certain about my find before publishing anything on it, as I know the book will be scrutinized very closely and I don't want ANYTHING to be incorrect in it!

I want everyone to know that this is my last post on Tnet because after this and everything that has been said between me and Swiftsearcher it will be no fun or enjoyment for me to come into the forum on Swift, because I know Swiftsearcher will continue to discredit me, but I quess in my opinion, this was his motive for discrediting my research, to drive me off so he can continue to be/look like the ultimate authority on the Swift Legend. In my opinion probably to make money on the Swift legend by promoting a book or a fake scenic attration, as many are doing in Ky with historical lengends, areas sites, just my opinion, etc. one other thing

And you state I am the one who attacks YOU!?

Swiftsearcher when your book does come out I will use it in my Outhouse.

I really hope you have NOT quit posting on here - especially if I decide to post some finds I make inside the Rich Mine (going to leave in about 30 minutes, as I am giving time for things to dry off some today).

The BIG DIFFERENCE between you (L37) and me is that, when I make these "extraordinary claims" you refer to, I have not only provided SOME PROOF, I have gotten EVERYTHING in the Journals CORRECT! This is where a LOT of people make mistakes - landmarks are NOT the distance nor rifht location, as stated in the Journals. Also, a lot of people make mistakes regarding the area - the Principal Mines and two Furnace Rockhouses were all within 3 MILES of one another. I have seen some people use topo maps out and state the mines have to be in their area b/c there is this rock or that rock mentioned on the map. Swift simply gave his interpretation of rocks and the surroundings in the 3 Mile area the mines were in - NOT landmarks that are mentioned on maps 250 years after Swift (people stating Swift's Mines has to be in this area, b/c there is a lighthouse rock mentioned on a map of a state park or something to this effect)! Also, people like L37, who get the directions Swift gives WRONG are simply wasting their time - as when he mentions the Buffalo Rock being near the Middle Mine and the wrong directions he gave to the West Mine. Here is a little secret I used when I thought I found something. I will give this information on the methods I used at one of the furnace rockhouses (the one three miles from the Rich Mine). Swift states SEVERAL things (caches, Mines, etc.) in relation to this Furnace Rockhouse. BEFORE I ever stated this was Swift's Rockhouse, I walked the poles he mentioned and found the West Mine and cache sites. In fact, the tree with the large limb near the bottom is still there! I have some great pics of it. There is also a large "dip" on the South side of the tree, as Swift stated, where someone dug the crowns up a long time ago! Also, for one to know they have found Swift's Mines, they need to check for the landmarks Swift mentioned in relation to that particular mine. When I found the Rich Mine, not only was it on the second ledge, with the opening the size Swift mentioned, ALL OF THE LANDMARKS ARE THERE AND IN THE CORRECT AREAS IN RELATION TO THE MINE THAT SWIFT GAVE IN HIS JOURNALS! There is red sandstone at the mine Swift mentioned, the chestnut burr rock is above it, the clifts end just East of the mine, there is a large rock that seems to have fallen from another rock, the tree that blocked the entrance to the mine is dead but still there, the othere furnace rockhouse is in the correct location from the mine, the haystack rock is on the next drain at the head of it, there is the Buffalo Rock across the slope West a few hundred yards of the Rich Mine with the table top rock on the clift above it, the sinking creeks are West of the Rich Mine, the lighthouse or Needle Eye Rock is West of the Rich Mine and last, but not least, around 1700 Poles West of the Rich Mine is the Indian Bead Spring (which also has a rockhouse close by with Swift's name carved inside). ALL OF THESE FIT THE LOCATION OF RICH MINE I FOUND - I CHECKED ALL OF THESE BEFORE EVER MAKING A POST HERE ABOUT ME FINDING THE RICH MINE AS WELL AND HAVE THE PICS OF EVERY ONE OF THEM! Even in the furnace rockhouse near the Rich Mine, I found a large rock in the rockhouse with a large rock a little bit higher. The bottom rock had a round hole cut in it the size of a cupholder, where Swift and Co. would pour the Silver from the higher rock down into this mold to make the pigs! I have some great pics of this as well!

This is enough rebutting L37's statements for today. I have a couple of things to do and I am off to the Rich Mine to try and gain entry. I will post about this tomorrow in the other thread I started about finding the Rich Mine.

 

[-Ki-]

Wow --- I just read this tread... I myself look at the Swift legend with a open mind. Reminds me of the two versions of the Swift journal, the Kentucky version, and the Clinch version. Although proof of the upper mines have not been presented i believe strongly they are to be found in the Red river area. The red river was called the warrior fork by the Shawnee Indians, a trail ran from the main warriors path up the red river valley, up the north fork through the red river gorge leading all the way to the headwaters of the sandy river. I believe that swift may have followed some of this Indian trail in 1760 when locating the upper mines.. I also believe that some people get the north fork of the red river mixed up with the north fork of the Kentucky in alot of story's Ive read...but this is just my theory

I myself have great respect for L37 and his research, as well as swiftsearcher and his research and finds. Fact being the state and land in it are still very young, who's to say whats to be found out there. I myself believe some cache's are still to be found as well as the Shawnee cave with its many graves and hidden treasure...That's why i love posting pics when i find possable Swift clues, so people will know what I'm presenting and not just by what I'm writing about so there is no misunderstanding on some topics i post. Until positive proof is presented the hunt for John Swift's lost mines goes on...... Happy Swift hunting to everyone! -Ki-

 

[mtnbuck]

Do you think the crosses might be a map of the cave system?

possible laddder used to enter the cave...cave could be above or below grade

 

[arkhunter]

tag

 

[ghostdog]

Maybe a little help from the masonic end, from another disabled vet,
your C could mean Consistory{northern/southern jurisdiction}-19-32 degrees, your 4 could be secret master trowel-steps, and your blue rock might be Blue Lodge=Master Mason. Wish you luck.

 

[swiftsearcher]

Ghostdog - thanks much - I really appreciate your input!

 

[ghostdog]

Just a little more, the Line with the snake looking thing
might be a -perfect elu
the other line with crosses might be -tall cedars
does the G have a cut-out where it curves almost to the upside ? if it does this is a Masonic G
Be cautious and careful,I believe there are Masons,not the govt who might be montering these old places who have taken oaths to protect them. There are many Masonic Vaults across the country, but the most valuable are in Virgina,and date back before the American Revolution.I believe the valuts were designed to implode if a attempted breach were made.gd

 

[swiftsearcher]

Just a little more, the Line with the snake looking thing
might be a -perfect elu
the other line with crosses might be -tall cedars
does the G have a cut-out where it curves almost to the upside ? if it does this is a Masonic G
Be cautious and careful,I believe there are Masons,not the govt who might be montering these old places who have taken oaths to protect them. There are many Masonic Vaults across the country, but the most valuable are in Virgina,and date back before the American Revolution.I believe the valuts were designed to implode if a attempted breach were made.gd

Ghostdog. Thank you very much again. The G is exactly as you state! I will get some good pics of it when I go back to get pics of the inside and send you. Also, from my tons of research recently, as the weather has been too bad to get out for the most part, I have been researching the Bee and Beehive. I can't remember if I posted it here or not. However, there is a Bee carved in relation to the "vault" and, the bear's den (and back chamber where the mine entrance is located) at Swift's Rich Mine are shaped (inside) like Beehives!

My research also points to your statement about the "vaults", with their allegorical "cover stories" being correct as well. And, I believe you are correct about who is guarding these sites. As you state, it seems to be Masons with sworn oaths and not the Govt. However, MOST ALL of these Masons who guard these sites seem to have govt. jobs (some even judges and politicians). I believe this is why they can get away with having license plates that are not registered, access to helicopters, and other things. If/When you have time, e-mail me at [email protected] and I will send you some pics I have not posted on T-Net.