Fraudulent top-filers?

[Rail Dawg]

Well I mis-spelled "Fraudulent" in the title will see if a mod can fix my mistake.

We picked up 8 claims in Rye Patch last month and properly filed the COL's/Maps with the county and BLM.

They show up on the county web site and LR2000.

They were part of a 160-acre claim and since the old owners didn't pay their fees we got a hold of them through the proper locating process.

Anyway tonight I see a group of 8 people have top-filed for the entire 160-acre 1/4 section with the county.

What's weird is I called one of the names on the COL to let them know they were top-filing and not to waste money paying the BLM.

The person I talked to had no idea what I was talking about. They were indeed that person and at the address on the COL but they were adamant they had no clue what a mining claim was.

The COL filed with the county looks pretty unprofessional... kind of thrown together.

I'm going to call some other names on the COL but in the meantime what if any recourse does one have in a situation like this?

Seems to me there isn't much we can do even if there is fraud present...

I've tried to reach out and politely call but beyond that any suggestions on a course of action?

Figured the experts here will give me some good guidance.

Thanks!

 

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[Rail Dawg]

I am glad the overclaimers backed off once you let them know "what is what". Sometimes such people don't want to play by the rules and then you really have a mess to deal with. The mining laws specify that such matters must be cleared up via the courts and that process is in itself a real process of due diligence. Nice you got it worked out. Way to go!

Bejay

Thanks Bejay.

Yeah we like the direct approach of a friendly phone call.

The guy backed off quickly which was great.

LR2000/MyLandMatters will show them on the claim because the BLM did take their money but after they don't pay the maintenance fee for 2019 it will simply go to a closed status as you know.

He did say he had asked the county recorder if the claim was available and was given the wrong answer.

Most of us here know it's not the job of the county recorder to make these judgments and I've found Pershing County recorders to be professional and helpful.

However we don't rely on them for advice on what's locatable or not that's simply not their job.

The 8 filers just learned an expensive lesson (about $2000) on due diligence before paying the fees.

The guy was nice on the phone so I spent a little time giving some education on the proper way to go about these things.

In the beginning I made similar mistakes and it doesn't take much thrown-away money to learn the lessons lol.

 

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[hawkeye39]

I am glad the overclaimers backed off once you let them know "what is what". Sometimes such people don't want to play by the rules and then you really have a mess to deal with. The mining laws specify that such matters must be cleared up via the courts and that process is in itself a real process of due diligence. Nice you got it worked out. Way to go!

Bejay

In this case it was an honest mistake. I was not involved, but have knowledge of the situation. Not everybody is crooked.

 

[Rail Dawg]

In this case it was an honest mistake. I was not involved, but have knowledge of the situation. Not everybody is crooked.

Not at all. If you know the guy please tell him I thought he handled it professionally.

 

[Goldwasher]

How come those guys didn't see your claim corner posts?

it doesn't matter if you research at the county and find an area has a claim and it is described and was located properly it is up to you to know what areas you can't claim.

A monument or corner could have been vandalized or destroyed. That doesn't invalidate the claim.

 

[Bejay]

There is always different "locational issues" for each state. No doubt most of us who have claims have dealt with issues of monument and corner destruction. And such destruction does not invalidate the claim. While each state has certain requirements to "Validate" that does not mean one can not do more than is asked of them to "secure notice". Professional looking signs secured to well driven 2 inch metal pipe works. Placing signage high up into a tree helps. Even bright spray painted signage on a huge rock works. Anything one can do to place people on notice that a claim exists helps. On a big tree we often even put each and every years date on it with paint.....and our big signage is 20 feet up in a tree....with a laminated location notice placard right below it. You can't read the location notice that high in a tree but it shows that one exists. The readable stuff we put at reachable access...and usually those docs disappear in short order.

The worst claim dispute I have had was with a "mining club". When the club disputes you, they have endless numbers of members who want to work the claim and one is constantly battling each and every one of them. You would think the people running a mining club would be knowledgeable but sometimes even they are ignorant of the mining location issues. And BLM is no help at all....as they are not the record but merely a keeper of files....to insure maint payment and or work done.

Bejay

 

[Rail Dawg]

Well said Bejay.

It’s up to us and only us to know the ins and outs of locating/recording our claims correctly.

While there are good people at the BLM and county I’ve learned to trust but verify lol.

 

[bug]

Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
Happy hunting

 

[Assembler]

Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
Happy hunting

Thanks for pointing this out as others a number of "States" away have no idea at all.

 

[M.E.G.]

The properties (Mineral Estates/mining claims) the co-owner and I possess are well posted, with a map of location where one is standing in relation to all points of normal entry (raods, trails, creeks, and corners and inbetweens where accessable). And any time the postings are changed out due to fading, updating, etc, they are both photographed and videoed for our records.

 

[Rail Dawg]

Hey Raildog, I was out there with topfiler and know it was an honest mistake by them. They were hoping to secure a new club claim. I will say your SW boundary usgs pins only have ancient posts with no indication of a new filing or location monuments. This was unlike your other claims in the area that are clearly marked by new posts and loc notices. With 8 lode claims on the quarter section there should be 45 posts total like Clay mentioned. This seemed to not be the case. What I would suggest is placing new posts on your claim, and mark them as to what corner it is, and also how many feet and the direction N S W or E to the next corner.
Happy hunting

Appreciate this.

These are placer claims... not lode.

There are (or at least were 2 months ago) new 2x2 wood posts with a blue tip only in the NW corners since they are placer.

The BLM had them as lode by mistake on LR2000 but we fixed that.

Thanks for the info though.

The COL’s were recorded on the Pershing County web site in early April.

We saw them there then but for some reason your guys didn’t see this recording before filing their claims last week.

The Pershing County database can be tricky at first when trying to find info but it’s imperative that this be learned before locating a claim.

Bummer about the money you all spent on fees.

Been there done that!

Take care.

 

[hawkeye39]

The Pershing County database can be tricky at first when trying to find info but it’s imperative that this be learned before locating a claim.

.

Actually the Pershing County online document search is one of the nicer ones. Very simple and relatively straight forward. The trick is to pick the appropriate list and only enter the info you need to make the list you want.

 

[Rail Dawg]

We just spent a week out at Rye Patch prospecting and went completely over the SW 1/4 section that is the subject of this thread.

Not too sure why but the only new monuments we found were the ones we placed back in late March although most of them had been pulled.

There were other old monuments going back at least 20 years by the looks of them.

We found our NOL's (Notice of Location) still in their capped 1' PVC tubes half buried in the ground like we left them.

Didn't see a single other new monument or NOL anywhere out there and we were all over the 1/4 section.

We did install (like we have on all our other claims) 5' metal posts with an attached sign on all 8 placer claims.

Brought home some of the most beautiful quartz rock I have ever seen and the wife placed them in the yard.

Some are close to 300 lbs lol.