Found today, half a belt buckle, need help in aging/ID

[Possumguts]

Found this today at a farm which was built in 1878. I know it is one part of a two part belt buckle, but I know nothing about it's age or type. I've seen Police and Fire buckles of similar vintage, and even Civil War types, but I'm clueless on this half.
Comments appreciated. Thanks.

 

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[MonkeyBoy]

Nice wreath!! There are some navy 2 piece buckles that are really close to the same style.. if that was dug in NY I would think the chances of it being from something other then a CS T&W are high.. BUT I hope it is!! That would really add to the find.. battlefield pickup?? and then taken back to NY..

Here is a picture of the Navy... it is not the same.. but close in style.. I'm not saying it is.. or isn't... just saying there are others to check out..

MB

 

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[Narthoniel]

I wish I could dig an antique bottle opener...
Anthony

 

[nova treasure]

Nice wreath!! There are some navy 2 piece buckles that are really close to the same style.. if that was dug in NY I would think the chances of it being from something other then a CS T&W are high.. BUT I hope it is!! That would really add to the find.. battlefield pickup?? and then taken back to NY..

Here is a picture of the Navy... it is not the same.. but close in style.. I'm not saying it is.. or isn't... just saying there are others to check out..

MB

I agree, there are others to be checked out. I know what the Haiman Style looked like and knew it was extremely close in Comparison. Maybe the odds can be beat and the tongue part of the Buckle can be found and than We will know for Sure.

Nova Treasure

 

[johnnyi]

Monkeyboy, may I ask what source you used for the picture of the Navy buckle? I'm just asking because it is a completely different design of eagle than anything illustrated in Kurksis (who I would have assumed would have seen this one)? At any rate, as I mentioned to Possum, some of these U.S. Gov., militia, or Navy two pice tongue and wreath buckles are actually rarer than some confederates that are similar.

 

[creeper71]

Nice wreath!! There are some navy 2 piece buckles that are really close to the same style.. if that was dug in NY I would think the chances of it being from something other then a CS T&W are high.. BUT I hope it is!! That would really add to the find.. battlefield pickup?? and then taken back to NY..

Here is a picture of the Navy... it is not the same.. but close in style.. I'm not saying it is.. or isn't... just saying there are others to check out..

MB

I agree, there are others to be checked out. I know what the Haiman Style looked like and knew it was extremely close in Comparison. Maybe the odds can be beat and the tongue part of the Buckle can be found and than We will know for Sure.

Nova Treasure

We would be sure what Belt Buckle it is an the finder will be able to make 3000.00 + if they we're to sell it... I think but not sure..the wreath alone is 1000.00+

 

[kuger]

WoW!!!!My favorite relic!My bet is your wreath is Figure 213 of Kerksis' book,United States Militia Sword Belt Plate Circa 1850 Dimensions 2.04x3.10Rarity of 6 Probably Mexican War.

 

[kuger]

Monkeyboy, may I ask what source you used for the picture of the Navy buckle? I'm just asking because it is a completely different design of eagle than anything illustrated in Kurksis (who I would have assumed would have seen this one)? At any rate, as I mentioned to Possum, some of these U.S. Gov., militia, or Navy two pice tongue and wreath buckles are actually rarer than some confederates that are similar.

I beleive that is one of Hanover Brass' buckles Reproductions,many of there buckles are very close but different to the originals

 

[johnnyi]

No it's not kuger. Check the back in Kerksis and compare that to possum's. They are not the same.

 

[johnnyi]

"I beleive that is one of Hanover Brass' buckles Reproductions,many of there buckles are very close but different to the originals"

Kugar, thanks. I had wondered, but didn't want to spring for the 20 bucks for the online book on reproductions.

p.s. since you have Kerksis in front of you; check figure 418 and compare front and back, and second choice figure 251 (haimen) which looks cruder.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Monkeyboy, may I ask what source you used for the picture of the Navy buckle? I'm just asking because it is a completely different design of eagle than anything illustrated in Kurksis (who I would have assumed would have seen this one)? At any rate, as I mentioned to Possum, some of these U.S. Gov., militia, or Navy two pice tongue and wreath buckles are actually rarer than some confederates that are similar.

I beleive that is one of Hanover Brass' buckles Reproductions,many of there buckles are very close but different to the originals

It is from Hanover.. but I just grabbed that as an example.. having already seen how similar they were..

MB

 

[kuger]

No it's not kuger. Check the back in Kerksis and compare that to possum's. They are not the same.

Your right,man I dont know which one thoughI know little about the types you guys find out East,now the ones to the far west of ya,if I dont know I can find out pronto!!!!Even Kerksis has been proven wrong by mentors

 

[johnnyi]

"Your right,man I dont know which one thoughI know little about the types you guys find out East,now the ones to the far west of ya,if I dont know I can find out pronto!!!!Even Kerksis has been proven wrong by mentors"

When you're talking rarity 8 or 9 on some of these wreaths I doubt if even the experts have all the answers.

"if I dont know I can find out pronto!!!!" Ha! good spirit! It reminds me of a crazy old scrapper friend of mine years ago; had one of the biggest yards of military junk in the east...His business card read, "If I don't have it I know where it's at". Always loved that line.

 

[kuger]

Yea, I am very fortunate to be freinds with the top experts on Tongue and wreaths(mainly the ones found out west)and those buckles are my obsession.I dont remember of more than two of those Virginia varieties being dug?

 

[treasuredog]

I have the same buckle half,that I found in a backyard in Sanford Florida! Im saying civil war officers buckle. Nice find

 

[kuger]

I have the same buckle half,that I found in a backyard in Sanford Florida! Im saying civil war officers buckle. Nice find

Yea we got that figured out,which one?Congrats by the way,that is a rare piece.

 

[Possumguts]

Well, I'm really confused now, is it a counterfeit? An old one? I will try to post a higher resolution picture soon, and I am going back to the site and pound it to try to find the other half. It was found in western NY State, not far from Buffalo.
Not to far from this site was a garrison of the War of 1812 soldiers (10 miles) and along the route of refugees when Buffalo was burned (1815 I think), but I don't think this is that early, or is it?

How do I find out? Is there an expert that can render an opinion?

Thanks, Dennis

PS I love all of the comments and replies, and I thank you all...

 

[johnnyi]

Possum, it was not being suggested that it was a reproduction. It is obviously not one. Did you not receive the scans I sent you?

 

[kuger]

It is definitely NOT a reproduction.A picture of a repro was posted as an example.I think we have it narrowed down to at least two........both of which are rare,one VERY rare.The other half should be there.Grid the site and hit it from different angles,you would be amazed how many times the other half has been found at a later date after you had convinced yourself you had hunted the site out and then it pops up,asking yourself how did I miss that before?Are you pretty sure it was a virgin site?

 

[treasuredog]

Heres mine. Real or not?

 

[kuger]

Fella's,the chances of you digging a "Fake",is rarer than digging the buckle.Hanover brass and maybe one other co. make repros,and they clearly mark them with there trade mark ,even if somebody tried to rub the TM off and age them you can tell.Now if you were buying them then thats different.If you dug them,You have the real deal I assure you.Here is another one for the race Kentucky.O.K. here is a Hanover brass wreath (kentucky)that I wear on my detecting belt(I have never even been to Kentucky,but I got a good deal on it!!!!)Now note the similarities to your wreath,minus the scrolling on the belt loop,O.K. according to Kerksis Figure 79 the Kentucky buckle has the same scrolling yours does,get my point?Hanover is the best but there are little things different about some of theres.