what detrermins a archaeological site in the state ,any site over fifty years old ,ponce landed in 1513,can you hunt beach by shipwrecks? 
Florida is essentially eliminating Treasure Hunting July 1, 2012
- Thread starter aquanut
- Start date
Bum Luck
Silver Member
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badman#5 said:what detrermins a archaeological site in the state ,any site over fifty years old ,ponce landed in 1513,can you hunt beach by shipwrecks?
Somebody else besides you; like some faceless archeologist.
- Oct 6, 2009
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Just my opinion, but when ever a proposed law will affect the big boys (commercial salvagers), it seems to come onto the general MD community like ours (amateur beach detectors) as a "sky is falling" scenario so to build support to defeat a law that would affect THEM....
I've seen that scenario play out a lot on Spearfishing boards as well, i.e., "soon, no one will ba able to spear a fish anywhere".... Six years later, and you can still Spearfish in Florida...
I really think they care little about us Amateurs.. But the big boys, that scuba, use dredges/vacuums, etc., probably WILL end up losing their ability to get gold from the water.... IMHO....
I've seen that scenario play out a lot on Spearfishing boards as well, i.e., "soon, no one will ba able to spear a fish anywhere".... Six years later, and you can still Spearfish in Florida...
I really think they care little about us Amateurs.. But the big boys, that scuba, use dredges/vacuums, etc., probably WILL end up losing their ability to get gold from the water.... IMHO....
FLauthor
Hero Member
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Write to Governor Rick Scott as he can veto this bill. Rick Scott is a business man not a lawyer like many previous governors were. Write our Representatives too but be sure to send one to Gov. Rick Scott. 
mohicanjoe
Jr. Member
Aquanut.
Thank You for your insight and honesty.
If the Gov and his buds did any of this behind closed doors, we may have a legal chance.
Most of the folks have no clue. Especially what the Spanish and others left behind at, within, or above the waterline.
The heck with the east coast.......
In the glades there is a nuke or two?? and buried-hidden treasures from pirates and the Civil War....wait did the State and the Feds take most of the Glades for a park??; then there is the Dry Tortugas and the what 800 plus wrecks, oh that is a national sanctuary, eh ?!
Hey...why not hunt the nuke off the East coast........farther north of Jacksonville.
Found something on Manasota Key......Manasota Key, of course now it is a park...hey didn't this happen over on the east coast.....Oh there's a wreck site here, lets make it a park.......screw the heck out of the hunters..........Oh, if you have a State permit, don't they get the best first and you last, kinda like their version of a old book./........
Hey, did the Fisher permit recently re let.....was it advertised or did the guys from Ohio just somehow come into it How does anyone get one now a days....oh magin'.......that's right.....
Hey if they have a big blow this year and you hunt the only time it will be safe to hunt the beach will be while the police are on lock down....but then........of course.....
Hey, that attorney you have to hire....he gets to use your money to fight the State...and your taxes......
It is all about money.
If the Scott and the State can recover an Odsy like find for free, maybe they won't have to continue the billing of billions of employee monies into the general fund...for their future retirement....or they will have finders' Billion to pay back,eh?! Especially if you have found a good find.
Did anyone get that this week. If you are a Florida government employee....part of your income goes now to a fund that is to save for your future pension......but was somehow spent by the Governor...now he is using our tax dollars to fight the employees for the Billion they want back that was set back for their future.........but was spent...ooops.......
Maybe, we could make a deal for finds like that, eh?! Find it...give it to the state.....and then when you are to get it back.....oh, I'm sorry...we spent it to fight our employees......get in line with your attorney
If you have a find, please only speak to your attorney first, then good luck,eh?!
Thank You for your insight and honesty.
If the Gov and his buds did any of this behind closed doors, we may have a legal chance.
Most of the folks have no clue. Especially what the Spanish and others left behind at, within, or above the waterline.
The heck with the east coast.......
In the glades there is a nuke or two?? and buried-hidden treasures from pirates and the Civil War....wait did the State and the Feds take most of the Glades for a park
??; then there is the Dry Tortugas and the what 800 plus wrecks, oh that is a national sanctuary, eh ?!Hey...why not hunt the nuke off the East coast........farther north of Jacksonville.
Found something on Manasota Key......Manasota Key, of course now it is a park...hey didn't this happen over on the east coast.....Oh there's a wreck site here, lets make it a park.......screw the heck out of the hunters..........Oh, if you have a State permit, don't they get the best first and you last, kinda like their version of a old book./........
Hey, did the Fisher permit recently re let.....was it advertised
or did the guys from Ohio just somehow come into it How does anyone get one now a days....oh magin'.......that's right.....Hey if they have a big blow this year and you hunt the only time it will be safe to hunt the beach will be while the police are on lock down....but then........of course.....
Hey, that attorney you have to hire....he gets to use your money to fight the State...and your taxes......
It is all about money.
If the Scott and the State can recover an Odsy like find for free, maybe they won't have to continue the billing of billions of employee monies into the general fund...for their future retirement....or they will have finders' Billion to pay back,eh?! Especially if you have found a good find.
Did anyone get that this week. If you are a Florida government employee....part of your income goes now to a fund that is to save for your future pension......but was somehow spent by the Governor...now he is using our tax dollars to fight the employees for the Billion they want back that was set back for their future.........but was spent...ooops.......
Maybe, we could make a deal for finds like that, eh?! Find it...give it to the state.....and then when you are to get it back.....oh, I'm sorry...we spent it to fight our employees......get in line with your attorney
If you have a find, please only speak to your attorney first, then good luck,eh?!
VWandSTUDEBAKER
Sr. Member
- Jul 11, 2010
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I heard the bill was pulled by its writer.
mrs.oroblanco
Silver Member
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I just have to put my two cents into this - as, this crap is my pet peeve.
First - that letter you got from your representative is fodder for fire, as it is a form (get you off my back) letter - I have a hundred of them, if I have one.
Second - to address the folks you think that the "gun" is being jumped - that some folks are too worried about a little thing, let me bring you current with some history.
In states all across the nation, we have areas where we cannot go onto public lands. They NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, just take things away completely.
Here's the way it works (and you may check it out anywhere, anytime, and you find out it IS the case). First, they try a big grab. They don't really expect to get it - what they are looking for is----a compromise. Because, certainly, you want to be reasonable, and protect this great land of ours. (now, just so you know my personal opinion - compromise=we lose - because, now, if we compromise, we absolutely lose something we had before we compromised) They say THEY are compromising - but they are not compromising anything, because, truthfully, they don't own it, so, you cannot lose something you don't own.
So, you have a little compromise - we are just going to pull this little section, because that's the place most endangered. Ok, I don't have to md on the dunes where the fowl lay their eggs - like I would anyway. Then, that gets expanded. And, you compromise some more. Now, its a certain time of year that you cannot even come within a 1/2 mile of the dunes. Then it is expanded some more. And, you compromise again. Ok, no dunes ever, never at a certain time of year, and never within a 1/2 mile of the place. Then, some food that they eat stretches for 6 miles in either direction. So, they want to close those whole 6 miles away. So, you compromise - and now, they are only going to close off 3 miles in either direction during the rearing of young time. Then, they think they should not be bothered at all, so, they want 3 miles in either direction all year long. So, you compromise - 3 miles in either direction during 6 months of the year. And, so it goes, on, and on, and on.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch - YOUR tax dollars are paying for them to work against you.
And, when it comes to the beaches - Florida does not own the beaches from high tide down. It's Federally owned - and public land. (no matter what some rich condo-on-the-beach tries to tell you. Every case that has been brought with landowner of beach condos, has been eventually been decided AGAINST the landowners.
You have to watch every single little thing - because every little thing will, eventually, become a big thing. And, you should also fight for other users of public land. Remember the old saying:
And then they came for me, and there was no one left..........................
Beth
First - that letter you got from your representative is fodder for fire, as it is a form (get you off my back) letter - I have a hundred of them, if I have one.
Second - to address the folks you think that the "gun" is being jumped - that some folks are too worried about a little thing, let me bring you current with some history.
In states all across the nation, we have areas where we cannot go onto public lands. They NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, just take things away completely.
Here's the way it works (and you may check it out anywhere, anytime, and you find out it IS the case). First, they try a big grab. They don't really expect to get it - what they are looking for is----a compromise. Because, certainly, you want to be reasonable, and protect this great land of ours. (now, just so you know my personal opinion - compromise=we lose - because, now, if we compromise, we absolutely lose something we had before we compromised) They say THEY are compromising - but they are not compromising anything, because, truthfully, they don't own it, so, you cannot lose something you don't own.
So, you have a little compromise - we are just going to pull this little section, because that's the place most endangered. Ok, I don't have to md on the dunes where the fowl lay their eggs - like I would anyway. Then, that gets expanded. And, you compromise some more. Now, its a certain time of year that you cannot even come within a 1/2 mile of the dunes. Then it is expanded some more. And, you compromise again. Ok, no dunes ever, never at a certain time of year, and never within a 1/2 mile of the place. Then, some food that they eat stretches for 6 miles in either direction. So, they want to close those whole 6 miles away. So, you compromise - and now, they are only going to close off 3 miles in either direction during the rearing of young time. Then, they think they should not be bothered at all, so, they want 3 miles in either direction all year long. So, you compromise - 3 miles in either direction during 6 months of the year. And, so it goes, on, and on, and on.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch - YOUR tax dollars are paying for them to work against you.
And, when it comes to the beaches - Florida does not own the beaches from high tide down. It's Federally owned - and public land. (no matter what some rich condo-on-the-beach tries to tell you. Every case that has been brought with landowner of beach condos, has been eventually been decided AGAINST the landowners.
You have to watch every single little thing - because every little thing will, eventually, become a big thing. And, you should also fight for other users of public land. Remember the old saying:
And then they came for me, and there was no one left..........................
Beth
mrs.oroblanco
Silver Member
- Jan 2, 2008
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By the way, PLP is a good place to start. They do lots of pro-bono work - just for folks like us, in situations like this. They do take donations (I donate to them every year.
Beth
Beth
candig
Jr. Member
- Oct 8, 2007
- 62
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| 03/09/2012 | Senate | • Died in Budget |
Padre of Lakeland
Tenderfoot
- Apr 5, 2012
- 5
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Back in '82 I was doing a little "panning" in the Mazatzals in Central Arizona for expenses (I was doing "guide" work at the time, which is seasonal in Az., if you're smart). I was packing out by way of the Verde River when a couple of Enforcement Rangers on horseback came up on me. I was visibly armed at the time, everyone was nice and polite. I proceeded up river to a place called the Verde Hot Springs and settled into one of the tubs after my hike. A couple of hours later another hiker came in who was visible upset and I asked what was up. It appears that he too ran into the same Rangers (we compared descriptions) except he was ordered to take off his pack which they then ransacked and scattered; leaving him to repack after a warning that camping was limited to two weeks. Now this guy was in his early twenties, well dressed with pretty much new gear. I (at the time) was about 5 years older, been out there for a little over a month and looked like I had, with well used but undamaged (reasonably) gear. The only other difference was who was armed and who wasn't.
The point is that the enforcement mentality looks for victims (perps), and their primary function is REVENUE ENHANCEMENT, and everyone is a potential source of this revenue. How many people, particularly out-of-state tourists (a popular target) would fight a "misinterpretation" of code as opposed to paying the ticket? Further, while some of you think these views on Bills to become Laws are alarmist, keep in mind that the amendment process of Laws on the books is much different (and easier) than passing said Bills into law.
Just saying.....
The point is that the enforcement mentality looks for victims (perps), and their primary function is REVENUE ENHANCEMENT, and everyone is a potential source of this revenue. How many people, particularly out-of-state tourists (a popular target) would fight a "misinterpretation" of code as opposed to paying the ticket? Further, while some of you think these views on Bills to become Laws are alarmist, keep in mind that the amendment process of Laws on the books is much different (and easier) than passing said Bills into law.
Just saying.....
Actually the worrying is founded. I just read the bill in it's entirety and if you look at page 4 paragraph d lines 105 to 112 it says on any lands owned our controlled by the state and regardless of a beach being public it is still owned by the state
L
lockdownking
Guest
I am replying to this for Aquanut.
I have done a lot of research in this area of Florida and "Their" treasure. A person cannot make a claim on any treasure that is within a 3 mile outstretch from the Florida coastline. To do so breaks Floridas laws and you can be prosecuted for it.
HOWEVER!!!!, there is a loophole. If you go shore diving, you can "say" you went past the 3 mile limit of the state of Florida and bring up all the gold ya want!
If they enforce this rule, they will find looters and pillagers and might lose any hopes of attempting to salvage 100's of archeological related finds from this moment on.
Thanks for sharing!
I have done a lot of research in this area of Florida and "Their" treasure. A person cannot make a claim on any treasure that is within a 3 mile outstretch from the Florida coastline. To do so breaks Floridas laws and you can be prosecuted for it.
HOWEVER!!!!, there is a loophole. If you go shore diving, you can "say" you went past the 3 mile limit of the state of Florida and bring up all the gold ya want!
If they enforce this rule, they will find looters and pillagers and might lose any hopes of attempting to salvage 100's of archeological related finds from this moment on.
Thanks for sharing!
SNOOKSLAYER
Newbie
- Apr 29, 2012
- 3
- 0
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Write to Governor Rick Scott as he can veto this bill. Rick Scott is a business man not a lawyer like many previous governors were. Write our Representatives too but be sure to send one to Gov. Rick Scott.
Rick Scott won't veto Squat! He is the PROBLEM with Florida.
MichiganMan
Sr. Member
- Jun 13, 2008
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This sounds very dangerous to me. It smacks of England and Canada taking away the citizens' guns. It starts small: You cannot use this type of gun, then, that type of gun falls under that category... I foresee the same scenario with this bill. I think All metal detectorists should weigh in on this bill with full-force. It must be done by word of mouth because dectectorists do not have an NRA standing up for them [at least that I know of...?].
BallsDeep
Sr. Member
- Apr 30, 2012
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Ok so do i buy the new surf master PI?
FloridaDigger
Jr. Member
- May 6, 2012
- 38
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Although SB 828 died in the Budget Committee, now might be a good time to organize and preempt any possible resurrection of this bill. However, if it's reintroduced we can be prepared to write our representatives asking for specific language EXEMPTING restorative metal detecting, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread (and many more).
The language could be modified at line 83 to include the following;
..."notwithstanding the removal or attempts to remove, or defaces, destroys, or otherwise alters any archaeological site or specimen, the personal use of metal detecting devices for the purpose of recovering non-prohibited artifacts on any land owned or controlled by the state, including state sovereignty submerged land, land owned by a political subdivision as defined by s. 1.01(8), or land within the boundaries of a designated state archaeological landmark or landmark zone or public coastal beaches is not prohibited"
It's better to be out in front of this issue and ask for reasonable access and use.
Senate Bill 0868 (2012) - The Florida Senate
The language could be modified at line 83 to include the following;
..."notwithstanding the removal or attempts to remove, or defaces, destroys, or otherwise alters any archaeological site or specimen, the personal use of metal detecting devices for the purpose of recovering non-prohibited artifacts on any land owned or controlled by the state, including state sovereignty submerged land, land owned by a political subdivision as defined by s. 1.01(8), or land within the boundaries of a designated state archaeological landmark or landmark zone or public coastal beaches is not prohibited"
It's better to be out in front of this issue and ask for reasonable access and use.
Senate Bill 0868 (2012) - The Florida Senate
Last edited:
Youngladd
Jr. Member
Guys!!!, the best way to handle this and protect the hobby, going forward is to reach out to the metal detector manufacturers who have the money and lobbyists. They stand to lose big to any kind of ban on MDing. We should all start hitting them up now, so that they can get specific verbage in these bills to protect the hobby the next time some joker gets an idea to introduce a bill.
Farwalker
Jr. Member
- Aug 18, 2011
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CZ3D
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Velcom, Mr*Mrs Tourista,to our lovely State.Enjoy our nice hotels/foods/shopping/sun& beaches.
Did you ck all fast & furious & metal-detecting items @ the Border?"No","A detectoor"Uh-OOO.How much deniro do you have "Please" Well about $4200/kids have $40.spending money. Sir please sign-here! What is this? A ticket for fine of $4240. for metal detectoor."Detectoor",please gif to me!
"What",We donn,t need no stinkin Cons-to-tootion down here!
Did you ck all fast & furious & metal-detecting items @ the Border?"No","A detectoor"Uh-OOO.How much deniro do you have "Please" Well about $4200/kids have $40.spending money. Sir please sign-here! What is this? A ticket for fine of $4240. for metal detectoor."Detectoor",please gif to me!
"What",We donn,t need no stinkin Cons-to-tootion down here!
AC1955
Bronze Member
- Apr 22, 2012
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Confused here: can we or can we not detect on the beaches? Husband and I were planning a trip down in November specifically to detect. If someone could clarify this thread. Looks like the bill died in committee? Any help would be appreciated. If the law is still unclear, Florida won't be seeing us. It's a shame, too, as I am a native Floridian (now in New England) and still have family down there. 
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