Florida Again

[Warnberg]

I give, Tom no use coming to Florida.. you can't even own a metal detector here! [emoji23]

 

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[G.I.B.]

Got a link to that relaxed wording G.I.B. ? If not, I bet that by asking enough archies, and showing them this wording from Warnberg's link, that you could indeed find a couple that would say it applies.

I've posted it numerous time before- trying to get you to stop complicating Florida beach hunting is like asking a bucket of sand for directions to Disney...

 

[Blak bart]

Thats why we deal with rangers not archies. Cape florida is a yes everytime ive asked. Pennicamp swimming hole tourist beach, a firm hell no everytime I ask. Long key state park always a yes when I go. Bahia honda state park yes most of the time. These are the ones off the top of my head ive found more say yes than no. Some know the law in detail and some have no idea or care. I take it as I am told and dont push the subject. G.I.B. I wish I knew you when you were at long key park, many spanish cobs have been found there if you know where to look. And ive never had a ranger demand me to empty my pockets to see my finds.if I remember your post the rangers told you that searching off shore was legal and on the beach was taboo. Just the opposite of the law. Tom are you trying to stir our pot all the way from California? ? Please dont lobby our representative for us. Tresasure coasters routinely recover artifacts over 50 years old and probably historically significant too. Finders keepers high tide low tide law is on our side most if not all of the time. Sounds like you might be a little jealous of us here in florida. There is also no law that says you cant come and take advantage of our friendly metal detecting laws. We welcome California tourist dollars in our state. Barring the motherlode find im sure youll spend more than you find. I can guarantee youll have a great time too.

 

[Blak bart]

If iwas told wrong information by the person in charge of the park, and then I found the flaming cross of goa, and then someone in cali turned me into the archies. Would the states claim to my find stick in a court of law? Could I counter sue in civil court ? Would it be dismissed ? Could I site the finders keepers law ? Perhaps I could make a small fortune in publicty and books. Ask gary drayton whos on the oak island T.V. show getting paid. They never took his massive emerald encrusted ring he found on the treasure coast. Or maybe they did ? I dont know. Anyway its so grey in legal terms that I dont think the state even wants to go there. Now if you get caught on a known wreck site diving up artifacts your goose will be thoroughly over cooked here in florida. There are many examples of it , but ive also seen and herd of many accidental finds by divers here in the keys. These people were just diving with no salvage equipment and found a coin or piece of treasure and took it home. Its the guys who go after it intentionally who they go after . And they have to catch you red handed in the act. The real robbers are taking lobsters out of commercial traps. And it is very hard to prosecute with out catching them in the act. Ive seen multi year sting operations by one or more law enforcement agency in order to bring a strong case to get a conviction. This is what they are spending there time and our money on most of the time. That, drug smuggling , and people smuggling. The bigger fish to fry so to speak.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If iwas told wrong information by the person in charge of the park, and then I found the flaming cross of goa, and then someone in cali turned me into the archies. Would the states claim to my find stick in a court of law? ....

Let me give you a real life example of getting a "yes" from someone in authority, who .... simply didn't know the minutia (hadn't previously given it any though):

I was manning a booth at a museum event in Monterey, CA. It was a history fest type thing. In the booth next to me was an exhibit by the state park's dept. It was manned by park Rangers. During a lull in the activity, I struck up conversation with one of them, and it turned out he was in charge of archaeological things relating to the park's dept (they were profiling a recent dig at one of their parks, by putting out displays, etc...).

Being the devil's advocate, I asked him about metal detecting the state beaches here. He immediately chimed in with a "that's perfectly fine" type answer. But then I pointed out various lines in our minutia, and ... you guessed it, his face went confused, and he hee'd and haw'd and .... I stopped the conversation right there, and changed the subject.

Hence it's not uncommon to get a "yes", only to have it over-turned by someone else who thinks differently. And no, I don't believe you'd be in any trouble. All you'd have to do is say you got the approval from so & so. And if there's any flack, let the two of them hash it out, while you excuse yourself and leave

Hence ask the lowest ranking person on totem pole. The janitor, the little girl on the street corner, etc..... And then , like you, I don't argue with a "yes"

 

[Blak bart]

Yup I hear that . I often find that my own knowledge of the law exceeds that of the person in charge of park rules. I still have to obey there final say, right wrong or indifferent. Tom you should here some of this stuff we get told in the keys. I collect drift wood to make furniture. Not allowed to collect natural pieces only milled dimensional lumber. Ive been told to throw it all back and ive been told take it all as much as you want.

I once got checked by a real by the book ranger. He checked over all my pieces of wood and on one piece he found an endangered key largo tree snail stuck to it.he made me discard it all and wrote me a warning for tresspassing on D.E.P. land. I now have a so called backcountry pass that was given to me by a high school friend who is a ranger now. All the wood I collect is now taken under the premises of trash clean up. Now they pat me on the back and there wives buy my furniture. I often get into it with them about bottle collecting one of my great passions. Bottles under 50 years old are just trash, and when I take them im doing a good deed. Bottles over 50 years old are artifacts and must be left in situ as they say. Problem is im the only one that knows the age of bottles so they mainly just say thanks for cleaning up. It goes on and on with laws exemptions and rules I didnt even know existed. Im really back in these mangroves hunting ambergris thats sperm whale crap if you didn't know. Not allowed to own posses or trade in it as a U.S. citezen. It is a product of an endangered species, those protected by the endangered species act. It is worth a tremendous amount of money if you can track it down. If I pick up any other type of crap im just cleaning up and doing a good deed.but since this stuff is valuable its regulated. My buyer is from france and by law he is allowed to own possess and trade in it .he has all the proper paperwork and so I take him to it and he pays me a finders fee so to speak. There is always a loop hole in the law is the point im trying to make.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....I once got checked by a real by the book ranger. He checked over all my pieces of wood ... .

Great post blak-bart. It's always possible to run into flukes and barney-fife's technical people. And I suppose we could write off such things as "flukes" and make no changes in our habits. Or perhaps you are truly in an area of the USA (because FL is riddled with shipwreck lore), where .... sure ... it's actually enforced. I can think of places here, where if you trampled over fragile sand dune grasses (that they're trying to get restored), that you'd get barked at by a Sierra club minded ranger or do-gooder. But ... so long as that singular "concerned person" isn't there, ... then so peaceful. So serene.

I'll tell you this much though: If I live in FL, and wanted to hunt after the epic storm erosion, then my brother in law lost his wedding ring down here last week. Heck, you can even run a CL "lost" ad, the day before you go, detailing "ring lost at such & such beach". Print that out. Just sayin'!

 

[Blak bart]

Thinking outside the box thats what I like. Very smart stuff tom. Exploit the loopholes if they are obvious. But know when to back down when you have to.those by the book types are easy to understand and then its " yes sir , no sir, wont happen again sir, sorry for that sir, I was unaware sir, ill just leave right now sir" happy hunting.
By the way the keys is a bit more sensitive to environmental issues than the rest of the state, and its not always a bad thing.

 

[Honest Samuel]

If people give you a hard time when you are right, ask to speak to their supervisor. If they refused your request, then find out on your own who the supervisor is and complaint to them. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[signal]

Banjonyc,

Some advice from someone who was born and raised in Palm Beach County. Just goto any of our beaches and detect, don't do anything stupid, and you will be fine. Some beaches closes at dusk......I still detect. Don't be a nuisance to anyone, don't give anyone a reason to call someone to make issue of it. The reality is, Boca is difficult. Why? Well, because almost all the beaches in Boca require a parking permit. That permit is about $20/day. If you're a resident you can get one cheap (resident of Boca). There is LIMITED non-permit parking, but its metered, and I believe the meters are max of 1 hour. I goto the meters, and I stay for as long as I like, and I have never been ticketed (but YMMV). I typically park at one of the few spots at South Beach Park. Red Reef Park is a nice park too........Boca has some history but much of it is inflated..........I have no doubt there are likely some good stuff in the "Spanish River" and yes some cannons have been found off Boca.........the history is confusing though, just a warning, the location of Boca is not necessarily where the spanish spoke of it, much the same as "Port St. Lucie" is not where the salvage camp was located for the 1715 fleet.

There have been times I have been harassed in Palm Beach. But it was while in the Town of Palm Beach (where Trump lives and many other famous people). I would use Public Access, get on the beach, and walk down below the tide line to very "good" locations. People would see me, call the police, the police would come and literally walk all the way down the damn beach to talk to me and escort me away, and tell me BS like "the beach is closed at dark....." etc. You have to pick your battles. In those situations I just left with them, even though I have a copy of all the Town's ordinances and know they are mistaken. Next time, I just try to be more invisible. That's the thing with our hobby. Legal is not the issue. It's all about perception. You could be perfectly in your right, but still you must obey the orders of LEO's.

Boca is a bit high maintenance. You get a lot of models, wealthy people.......all good for the making of a good day of treasure hunting. But try to not spoil any of their fun. Don't swing the detector in their face, be friendly, don't look like some homeless person who is there to rob them .........you have to be like an iguana, an adapt to your surroundings. As I said, I hunt Boca all the time, never an issue, great place to hunt, just not friendly because of the damn parking/permit issues, but if you're at a hotel or whatever maybe you have other means to get on to the beach at that point. There are some VERY high end hotels, such as the Boca Raton Resort and Beach club (now known as Waldorf Astoria) is probably very hard to get access into, you can't even dine there unless you are a guest.......but something to check out if you have a way to. Numerous other hotels are good too.

To the South you have Deerfield Beach. A pier area is there, used to be host of some of the major surfing competitions in the 70's. When the tide goes low there is an unbelievable amount of wet exposed, never seen anything like it anywhere else. I have found spanish spikes there there. Also Al Capone bought an island there (Capone Island)........i won't go into it but who wouldn't want to pass a detector on that place (it MAY be illegal to do so, it may be a park that restricts it, I have no idea)........

Delray Beach is huge. Lots of parking, and especially active at the end of Atlantic Blvd and to the South where there is a resort.

Boca/Delray/Deerfield are all nice places to detect. Ft. Lauderdale is a bit more to the South, its massive, and has ALOT more hunters, but its also very busy with people. Every beach has its own great story.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Some beaches closes at dusk......I still detect......

The sign clearly says "closes at dusk" Not only did you not obey the signs, but you also didn't go ask park's personnel: "Can I stay out past dusk?" for permission either. This is just plain bad all the way around. Tsk tsk. How do you deal with your conscience ? And I suppose you club baby seals too ?

 

[Blak bart]

Ive always wondered about boca, lot of wealth there. Nice post signal. You and I seem to have much the same mind set. I to try to be like a chameleon/iguana. It works well for me too. In the end I have to obey the law man even if they are wrong. Smart attitudes get arrested for resisting and maybe even roughed up. Better to complie and then try again tomorrow. Picking and choosing your battles is sometimes a better method than trying to prove your right every time, even when you are right.

 

[ARC]

Breaking ANY rules while detecting gives other detectorists a bad rap.
Which would include me.

Not only is this a completely selfish move... but threatens the well being and outlook upon fellow detectorists...

One word... LAME.

Don't be a lamer.

IF I see someone doing wrong concerning what I love... I WILL say something.

And I don't give two hoots who or what you are OR what you are "packing". heh

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Let's all just go detecting. Florida is filled with md'r who A) are not lacking places to hunt B) are not "getting arrested", and C) are not fretting themselves with worry about "oh no .... have I crossed every T and dotted every I, to make sure that every last person is happy ? D) and are doing all this without "giving the hobby a bad rap".

All at the same time. Imagine that

 

[Warnberg]

Metal detecting in the state of Florida just closed to all nonresidential persons, any person nonresident must first obtain a permit to metal detect in the state.. if you contact me and provide credit card details I can get you a yearly permit...

🤑

 

[signal]

Florida is actually pretty metal detecting friendly as far as "beaches" go. We have so much beach, and so much stuff going on those beaches from parties, to fights, to drunks, to bonfires, drugs, crime, nakedness, etc. A guy swinging a coil hardly raises much concern. It's true the State in general are very difficult to deal with when it comes to historical sites, relics, salvage claims, etc.

One thing I will amend to what I said earlier, is that in Palm Beach County, you MAY run into issues around Jupiter inlet. Perhaps someone on here can clarify but I believe there is a leased claim for the Archangel or some other wreck and I am not sure exactly the extent of the GPS boundaries for that lease. But that is substantially north of Boca where the OP was going to be.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Metal detecting in the state of Florida just closed to all nonresidential persons, any person nonresident must first obtain a permit to metal detect in the state.. if you contact me and provide credit card details I can get you a yearly permit...

螺

Correct. And I can just see this getting picked up and put out as a link: That "non residents need a FL permit". That will worry some skittish people, who will start asking around on the net about this "permit". Other skittish people will confirm (because they saw it on the net afterall) that this is true. Those new threads will, in turn, spawn even more skittish people running around starting threads asking (can't be too safe afterall). And all the threads will start to cross-reference each other as "proof" of each other.

And 10 or 20 yrs. from now, everyone's gonna stop and say to themselves: "Says who?"

And it will Warnberg, back in 2017, who started the whole mess. But once the "I heard that such such" gets started, you can never put it to rest. So too do I wonder if that's not the genesis of a lot of such supposed laws (or ...at least, insane technicalities that never even occurred to any one) got started.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Tom

I am thinking of visiting you for the winter, and we can detect together and you can complain when I take coins out of trays. See you soon.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom

I am thinking of visiting you for the winter, and we can detect together and you can complain when I take coins out of trays. See you soon.

Hey there Samuel, if you find yourself on the central coast of CA (if you get tired of the snow there), you're welcome to visit. First we hit the beach and a few back-pocket sites here. Then we don all camouflage clothing and black masks, and go store to store that has coin-stores, secretly and stealthily raiding their change return slots !

 

[G.I.B.]

The folks over in the Gold panning and sluicing section are in desperate need of legal interpretation. They have quite the conversations concerning the laws and getting permission to use dredges, pans, high bankers, sluices and such.

I wonder where we could possibly find someone to help these poor folks in CA with some advice on their legal situation- and rangers- and BLM dudes who don't know the laws and make stuff up as they go along.

Hmm... where would one expect to find such help- - -

I wonder*