Flintlock pistol barrel?

[DownNDirty]

I just found this in a Lowcountry SC creek located on a plantation that dates back to the late 17th century. It's 12 inches long, hexagonal and tapered. I will do electrolysis when I get home & post better pictures later but I wanted to know what y'all think so far. Is this a pistol barrel? Thanks in advance.

Glenn

 

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[DownNDirty]

Thanks for the info. I know nothing about flintlocks so I am trying to decipher what you are saying.

It sounds like it is likely that what I have is a pistol barrel because it would hold a smaller charge?

Also are you saying that it may be an older gun because of the inferior design? The barrel was found on the site of a plantation that was started in the 1670's.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I never had an old flintlock pistol but isnt it kinda long for a pistol?

BTW my rifle doesnt have that brass thing. Just a threaded hole.

 

[releventchair]

I really don't know what you have.
It could be more modern than first guessed or one someone modified. As things wore folks kept using them.
A rifle barrel could be cut down to make a pistol.
Any parts available, surplus or old types were used by some gunmakers.
Having more parts with the barrel might help but that's not an option here.
Not suggesting an inferiority, a blacksmith or gunsmith could make modifications too.
Your barrel could have burst and been discarded. Bursting so far from the breech seems more likely to be caused from an obstruction towards the muzzle end than an over charge of powder or improperly seated load.
Barrel could have been used for a marker and rotted through where separated.
Wild guess has it be a rifle out of the late seventeen hundreds when patent hooked breech and modified breech plugs were being produced more commonly, but I'm no authority on it all.
English hooked breeches were around just past first quarter of the seventeen hundreds though so it's tricky from my limited knowledge.
A metallurgist could tell about it's construction, wrought iron or Damascus type construction vs modern steels but it looks like it is not near any modern production to me.
Have not seen a touch hole liner with no slot to install or remove it.
All have been threaded, so the only way to have it smooth on the outside would be to have it stand out proud from the barrel then file it level with barrel.
Unthreaded would not stand the pressure and pop out. But anything is possible without knowing who worked on it...

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

It's a small brass fitting that is round & has a pinhole in the middle of it. Isn't that what you are describing?

View attachment 1175430

I doubt it's brass. The vents were either steel replacememts or gold plated to resist corrosion. Later & fancier barrels used platinum inserts.

 

[releventchair]

A hooked breech makes barrel removal easier. As does using wedges/keys that would work with your staple shaped lugs. Fancy advances from after the mid sixteen hundreds at least.
Being flint the barrel is likely pre mid eighteen hundreds. With the two hundred year span of possible manufacture the hooked breech comes into play for when it became more common and allowed distribution.
With a rifle a hooked breech means being able to quickly pull the barrel and set it's breech in a container of water making for a quicker cleaning without staining or water soaking wood with fouled water. A pistol can be cleaned without pulling the barrel easier, though both rifle and pistol barrels can stay in their stocks really.
Not sure when hooked breeches were used on pistols before the mid eighteen hundreds and those were limited in use it seems, at least to me.
Varied conditions affect deterioration but mid eighteen hundreds Civil war barrels are found pretty much full length still and some identifiable.
That all leads to guesses about your piece.

Ahh good point Charlie.
Gold would fill in screwdriver slots. And along with hooked breech suggest a higher grade arm than strictly utilitarian too.

 

[DownNDirty]

I think the theory that it is a musket barrel that exploded is a good one. As you can see in this picture the last 4 inches or so have a warped, wrinkled appearance that could have been caused by extreme heat

 

[l.cutler]

It is not a cut down musket. A musket would not have the hooked breech, a tennon type underlug, or the touch hole liner. I still think pistol because of the closeness of the tennon to the breech, on a rifle or fowler the tennon would be much farther away from the breech.

 

[DownNDirty]

It is not a cut down musket. A musket would not have the hooked breech, a tennon type underlug, or the touch hole liner. I still think pistol because of the closeness of the tennon to the breech, on a rifle or fowler the tennon would be much farther away from the breech.

Thanks for the insight. Here is a close-up of what's left of the under lug along with a picture of a tenon lug.

 

[BosnMate]

The majority of antique flintlock pistols I'm familiar with don't have a hooked breech, lug for attachment to the stock, or a tapered octagon barrel. There is no such thing as a standard pistol, but here is a picture of an antique flintlock with a pinned barrel.

It's hard to see, but this gun has a tapered, octagon to round barrel, with a wedding band at the junction, and you can see the pin just in front of the wedding band, in the wood. The top picture has the best view of the pin because it's shinny in that picture. There are other hard to see pins, but there are pins holding the ramrod pipe and entry thimble to the stock. Like I said, nothing is standard, but this type is common, along with lots of all round barrels. So I did some research, and I found this picture of a French pistol circa 1800.

There is no way to tell if this gun has a hooked breech, but it has a tapered octagon barrel. Note the barrel has a slight flare at the muzzle. This was done on purpose on both the round and octagon barrels, not standard and not common, but done on more than you might think. Also note the barrel is attached by lugs, one halfway, and one near the muzzle. I have no idea if the barrel had burst, it's possible with an obstruction, but more probably it's just rusted away, but what you think might have been caused by a bursting barrel could have been built into the barrel when it was new. Can you get a measurement inside the bore, so we can try and get an idea of the caliber. Regarding the vent liner. Most likely the vents started out life as a drilled hole in the barre, which meant the fire in the pan had to flash through the thickness of the barrel. With a vent liner, it could be cupped on the inside and it's reasonable to suppose the gun would go off just a fraction of a second faster, which is important when you are trying to hit what you are shooting at. The reason there is no screwdriver slot in the liner is because it was screwed in to proper depth, then cut off and filed smooth with the barrel. Hope this helps.

 

[DownNDirty]

I'm at work so I don't have my caliper with me but I have attempted to measure the bore with a ruler-which is an inexact science at best. It measured 9/16, which translates to .56 inches. Keep in mind that the inside of the barrel was rusted also, so I would think that it was originally thicker, hence a smaller bore than what I measured.

Isn't that a bit small for a musket? I would think this would point more toward pistol than musket.

 

[DownNDirty]

Something else I noticed is that there is a groove on the underside that's 1.5 inches forward of the vent. It's rounded & is a quarter inch wide. It's an intentional groove, not a rusted or pitted area.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Clearance for the sideplate bolt (?)

 

[l.cutler]

A musket would not be smaller than .69 caliber, that still leaves pistol, fowler and rifle though. It is probably too far gone to ever be sure. I agree with Charlie about the notch being for lock bolt clearance.

 

[DownNDirty]

I measured the bore with a digital caliper-it's 58/100 inch.

Were flintlocks ever made with rifled barrels? I didn't think they were.

 

[l.cutler]

Sure they were, remember the famous "Kentucky Rifle"! There were flintlock muskets, trade guns, fowlers, smoothbore pistols, rifled pistols, rifles and smooth rifles.

 

[DownNDirty]

See-I told you I didn't know anything about flintlocks! lol

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe a little more electrolysis?

 

[DownNDirty]

It's cooking as we speak (or post)

 

[Smithbrown]

Website dedicate to the art of the Kentucky rifle if it is any help to you. Rifled pistols aren't very common.
http://americankentuckyrifleart.com/

 

[DownNDirty]

Website dedicate to the art of the Kentucky rifle if it is any help to you. Rifled pistols aren't very common.
http://americankentuckyrifleart.com/

Thanks-This is good information; I'm learning a whole lot from this thread (from all of the contributors).

I don't see any rifling inside the barrel so I don't think it was from a rifle, but it could have rusted away (possibly).