El Naranjal

I may be drifting off topic a bit, but have you ever climbed to the spot, Don Jose, where the Jesuit fell to his death? What do you suppose he was seeking there? I doubt that it was to commune with the spirits, though it may well have ended up that way, rather it looks like he was seeking a vantage point to look from, to see........what? I wonder what you can see from that vantage point, perhaps it is important?

Oroblanco
 

G'morning Oro de Tayopa, The story by the Indians runs that he had spent quite a bit of time in the area in the late 1800's, always looking etc. He had climbed that area to ---??? and fell off. The spot is known as El Cerro del cura, "The hill of the priest."

From there, as well as a thousand other places, the complex can be seen. Side factor that is where they found the tunnel complex, for what ?? nothing discovered in them?? unless there is closed room in there somewhere? Right now we are concentrating else where. Of course the question is "Why did they dig those tunnels in the first place ."

No, I have never had a reason in the past to explore them, now? After they finished with me, I could no longer climb around in those hills. They left me with limited use of my left leg and right arm, not too conductive for cliff scrambling. But you will be there some day soon, I hope.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Hola mi compadre,
I wish I could be there! However I am pretty hesitant over the firearms restrictions, not that I would wish to try to shoot it out with a gang of drug lords, as you said they are so well armed it would not be a contest, but for personal security. Also I would not wish to get in the way of your current expeditions, ongoing, nor disturb anything that could have been an important clue. However I would still love to go see your Tayopa, just to be able to say I saw it in person. I hope that the current situation with the drug lords and other issues will soon be a thing of the past.

I wonder what that priest saw, that led him to his death? I don't expect you to clamber up the cliff to see (and perhaps join him!) but as you have an intimate knowledge of the terrain and most (or all) of the actual workings, perhaps you could make an educated guess? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco aka Oro de Tayopa (just trying it on for size, hardly would be fair to use it having never even been to Tayopa! :coffee:)
 

G'd morning Oro de Tayopa: A cuppa Tayopa sock coffee?

I can only speculate,, perhaps he was told by the Indians of the cave / tunnel system, but Tayopa is actually far from there.

If it is possible. you will be the first to enter Tayopa - death traps remember? snicker or is that Beth's job to spring them ?

Incidentally, you have the document / map / and photographs of where the room was expected to be. And where Tayopa is from there.

Side thingie, our man from Alaska also had dowsed and indicated that spot correctly, plus another nearby, how? That might have been a secondary goal of the Jesuit?

I don't even know his name and except for looking for Tayopa he might have never existed if we hadn't come along


May be some day I will see if I can find his grave and open it up for some identification. He deserves a bit of recognition.

who was he, ad specifically what was his official mission ?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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G'd afternoon Oro de Tayopa: interesting tid bit from Wikipedia -->



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The Naranjal mine (more commonly known as El Naranjal) is the name of a legendary lost gold mine in the Sierra Mountains of Mexico. Folklorist J. Frank Dobie devoted part of his book "Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver" to the story of this legendary lost mine.
The mine was supposedly located at the bottom of a canyon, beside a river and an abandoned hacienda. Surrounding the site were groves of oranges, hence the name El Naranjal, which means the orange grove in Spanish. Alternately, some legends point to orange-colored gold ore from the mine as a source of the name.
Unlike other lost or legendary mines in this area, there is little hard evidence it ever existed, and may be purely a legend, -->taken from garbled accounts of the far more popular legendary lost mines of Tayopa.

<-. So, it possibly could be just west of Tayopa after all, just about where I casually speculated that it might be. hmmmmmm


Naranjo complex distant view.jpgNoronja view close up.jpg
 

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Hey buddy have you not figured it out from the many, many posts of our amigos here on T-net, that El Naranjal, along with all tales of lost mines and treasures are all fictional? Lamar would likely be more than happy to point that out for us! :thumbsup:
 

Choix is not too far from Tubares. This is the basic location of the 'Gloria Pan' mine, also the Tubares Indian area.

Interesting, more.

Eduardo who's father was the Alcalde of the LLuvia de Oro during the revolution, told me of many other things in the vicinity. Also Augistin Becera, 1/2 way between La Gloria Pan and The Lluvia de Oro, in the 50's told me of many things around the open fire in his patio.

As I remember there are three definite mines in the vicinity, One was the one in the arroyo Gloria Pan with the shaft covered with poles, the other was the Gloria Pan itself, and a third which a priest was working in the 30's - 40's. It has a shaft and down below were placed many objects ???

Fascinatimg Ed.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

G'd morning Ed, :coffee2::coffee2::coffee2: one for Beth, oro can bring his own sock coffee.

Cave, hmm, in front of Tubares to the north, and at the end of the mesa, is a huge cave with a large Sun engraved on the cliff face above it. That must have cost an Indian or two to do.

Inside 'is / was' buried a huge no of 'artifacts', and many bars of silver & Gold.

I found it, but when I attempted to enter it, I was stoped cold by the fleas. You can't imagine the feeling of fleas actualy jumping onto any exposed skin. we all had to get out of it and bathe n the river to get rid of them.

It seems that a Tubare Indian used it to corall his goats at night.

I have to go back there with repellent and fleacide hehhehe.

However do ya spose that is where your old Indian went for his samples??

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. maybe we could send in Oro, he is used to scratching the critter's bites..

p.p.s. "Y si dios quire" = "If God is willing"
 

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Don Jose, el Tropical Tramp wrote
G'd morning Ed, :coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:one for Beth, oro can bring his own sock coffee.
Click to expand...

Harumph! Have to bring my own coffee now? Sheesh what is next, have to bring my own campfire too? :tongue3:

Real de Tayopa, el stingy one also wrote
p.s. maybe we could send in Oro, he is used to scratching the critter's bites..
Click to expand...

Fleas won't stay on me amigo as they hate the scent of horses. There is a real advantage to sleeping under a horse blanket, which may not win new friends at any upper crust Tea Party occasions, but one is not left scratching either. As I am allergic to flea bites, I don't take chances with them. However since you found that cave amigo, the only right thing to do would be for the discoverer <ie - YOU :thumbsup:> to have the high honors of being the first to enter, and pinpoint any deathtraps for us too.

Side point but I have wondered if the Juana del Arco mine might not be a key to finding El Naranjal?

Ed - a carved crescent moon could be very ancient, a calling card of Mediterranean visitors. If you have any photo(s) of it, I would sure love to see it


Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

.
 

G'd morning Ladies & guys. Coffee?? Oro is specifically invited.

Fleas, fleas, that reminds me of another time that I was an unwiling host.

I left Urique early in the morning intending to return to Alamos. Now Urique is at the bottom of the southern extension of the Barranca de Cobre, so it was maybe 4,000 or more feet to the rim.

My mule and i climbed all day on what was a "Trail"??? - in climbing and descending, I always dismount to favor my mule, it pays off - and finally reached the summit about sun down, so I started looking for a suitable camp site for the night, when off in the distance I saw a lonely ranch, so with thoughts of spending a 'nice warm night' I headed for it.

As I approached it I noticed that the Apple blossoms on a few trees planted near the ranch were starting to become covered with frost, yep, it was cold, however, with a nice warm mule under you, it normally isn't too noticeable.

Anyway as I approached the farmhouse, as usual, I announced my presence and shortly a typical mt wife of indeterminate age came to the door.and greeted me. I explained what I wanted and asked if I could spend the night under a roof and buy some "pastura" for my mule.

She was very hesitant for awhile so I started to leave, intending to find a near by campsite before it became dark. She then agreed and then told me that her husband was way on business and would retrun in the Morning - mind you, I had been on the trail for a few months, had a scragly beard, wearing a .357 magnum pistol, Hat kinda dropping from the recent 4 days of rain,.clothes still muddy, etc., I hadn't had time o clean up at Urique. I must have been a pretty sight, especially for a woman alone in the sierras.

She then agreed that I could spend the night in the kitchen, Paradise, a nice warm room with hot coffee when I wished.
She then left, but shorly, I heard a padalock go "click" upon checking I found that she had locked me in the kitchen--oh well with a huge stack of uncured goat skins for a bed and plenty of fresh mt tortillas, i was looking forward to a memorable night ---It tunned to be more thn I had bsrgained for.

As soon as I laid down on the pile of goat skins I could feel lil things landing on my face. Shortly I found mysef scratching everywhere, the lil thinges were fleas frm the goat skins. soo I got no sleep that night from scratcihing, it was almost indescribable

The next morning she unlocked the door and I saw why she had locked me in the kitchen, behind her were two very good looking teen aged daughters

She had taken a serious chance on a stranger, because Trail courtesy in those days had demanded it.

Such was the life on the trail in those days, today ?????

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Don Ed,drink yer Oro coffee. Tubares when I was there was abandoned The poor church was empty with the doors swinging in the wind. Now Tubares is the local center of the regions Narcos, and one can drive there. so where do you go form there?

Don Jose de La Mancha.
 

You will ,you will my friend, Remember the old saying that once the dust of Mexico settles on you , you can never remove it and must return.

The Mexioc that you knew, and the one that I originally found in the 50's, is gone forever, but the memories of an unspoiled and gracias people will never leave.

My experiences with the primitive Indians, unspoiled compesinos, and open range country have spoiled me. But my loss, at times was their gain.

Perhaps you now know why I have such a possessive / protective attitude on La Tayopa. In my small way I wish to keep it's Barranca / canyon as I originally found it,

However Times change, and like most others, I have a family to support with dwindling resources, sooo I must bend to the times and probably contribute to it's destruction myself. sniffff.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Hello Mr Ed T one thing I can assure you that you or anybody else on this site is NOT a loser and i will tell you why?

Here is a few facts of life of the big blue orb call we call earth that we live on....

For those who are feeling a bit down and sorry for themselves.

Our planet about 7 billion people consists of 48% men and 52% women.

6% of the people would own 59% of the whole world's wealth and nearly all of them will be from the United States of America.

80% of the 7 billion would be considered to have poor living conditions

70% of the 7 billion is uneducated.

50% of the 7 billion suffer malnutrition.

This morning, if you woke up healthy, then you are happier than the 2 million people that will not survive next week.

If you never suffered a war, the loneliness of the jail cell, the agony of torture,or hunger, you are happier than 1 billion people in the world.

If you can enter into a church or (mosque) without fear of jail or death, you are happier then 3 million people in the world.

If there is a food in your fridge, you have shoes and clothes, you have bed and a roof,you are richer then 75% of the people in the world.

If you have a bank account, money in your wallet and some coins in the money-box, you belong to the 8% of the people of the world who are considered well-to-do.

If you read this, you are three times blessed because:

1. somebody just thought of you.

2 . you don't belong to the 2 billion people
who cannot read.

3. and... you have a computer!


So start living & stop worrying, You don't know how lucky you are! And definitely not a loser my friend.

Crow
 

G'd morning Crow, mi buddy, coffee>> Oirish naturally . That term "loser" is a fascinating one. One man with a $1,000,000 can be considered as a loser in many respects, while some one like Ed, who has a memory book of life's experiences, or you, in no way is a loser despite his presumed present Bank account.

Ed, like you , has seen and done things that many will pay good money to experience vicariously by reading of them since they can never experience them directly for many reasons..

You for example regardless of your fantastic adventures in the past, are living an epochal adventure right now, sailing on an extended cruise on one of the last of the old "wind jammers", especially with such a fascinating crew.

No, I personally envy Ed for some of his adventures in Durango, A beautiful state, especially in the high country. I merely touched it a bit, but never had the reason or chance to immerse myself in it.The nearest that I came was with the Tubares / Gloria Pan thingie..

Ed talks of the mule trips with a pack animal - I, in turn, traveled alone and only with my riding mule, so of necessity I didn't travel as comfortably as he did, but then I always was a bit atavistic, nuts. Today I respect Ed' method of travel as vastly superior to my rough it type. I probably could have done more effective exploration work with a pack animal,
so, the next time I will take Oro. :coffee2::coffee2::laughing7:

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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This post has little to do with El Naranjal, just want to add a bit - I agree with Crow and Don Jose, this kind of a life has benefits which are different from money. For one thing, memories of rather wild adventures, which may seem crazy and/or stupid to the mass of people whom will never take a risk in their life, are something which can never be taken away from you by the tax man, nor stolen by thieves, not even by death itself. There was a quote in an old movie, "You can take glory with you, when its your time to go" which covers this well. It may not count as "glory" but is an intangible of great value.

Then there are thieving folks in the prospecting game -and treasure hunting as well. While the majority are as honest as anyone, there are some very bad apples in these fields too. I won't bore you all with another re-telling of my having discovered, claimed and owned a gold mine worth millions, only to have it stolen by legal means, but in this case if it had not been for a dishonest surveyor, the whole lawsuit and loss would never have happened. More on this in a moment. Then there are the sneaks and claim jumpers in treasure hunting. A year or so ago Mrs O posted a few photos of an interesting old mine that we found by accident while out looking for a lost man in the Superstitions, only to see one member here suddenly post that he was taking his team up there to grab it. They failed to even find it, and I don't think it was the Lost Dutchman mine anyway (still to be determined) but it shows you that we have some here that would run to steal your mine if they thought they could. Even in the assaying biz there are cheats, we got cheated out of some silver a couple of years ago, and had another one try to buy eight pounds of silver for under half of the going price. There are gold "buyers" that advertise widely, whom are paying $3 a gram which you are not supposed to figure out is less than $100 per ounce troy.

On the mining claim deal - the fact that we had filed claims in an area where there had NEVER been any claims of any kind, probably helped attract the wrong kind of attention. If you are working in an area that has other active claims, and you file a new one, it will hardly raise an eyebrow; or if there were historically lots of old claims which were let go, it is not so interesting to the legal thieves to see a claim pop up there, but it might. However if you make a discovery where no one has ever found anything before, as in no mining claims in the area ever, it is questionable whether it is even wise to file a claim on it, or just risk working it illegally and hope to get away with it. Not telling anyone to go out and break the law, just that this situation does arise.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS to Ed - it would help us if we knew your Ebay ID so as to make it possible to find your ebay listings, if you would not mind posting it? Thank you in advance.
 

Dang Oro. Maybe a man is lucky sometimes to only find a pebble in his shoe and a beautiful day.
Heres hoping your arms tire from great weight anyway.
 

G'd evening ED, a small suggestion, go to a 'pt qualified' assayer. It takes special equipment and training hence 99
% of the Assay labs simply cannot do a competent assay on Pt.

This brings me to another point. I mentioned that Tubares was the closest that I had come to Durango, I forgot an interesting part of my life up on the crest of the sierras at the Colorados mine. Between Sinaloa & Durango.

I was the assayer. That is where we had the standoff with the Revolting Indian workers & bandits and were under siege for three days. Neither Sinaloa nor Durango would come to our aid, nor would they accept responsibility. This is where I assembled several double stringed home made grenades with Torvex and let the Indians see me testing them.

Also this is where you can see the deep barrancas that stretch for miles to the East in which is supposedly is El Naranjal. In fact one of the Indians told me that he had followed up floating oranges and entered by a small entry to a side barranca on the northern side where there was a large orange orchard and ruins??

Nah couldn't be Naranjal, since that is up in the Tayopa claim hehehhedhe.


Incidentally the main drainage of the Barranca system is via the Rio San Lorenzo which basically flows E -> W, .and exits in Sinaloa.

Loved that country. When it rained every little arroyo, falls etc ran with different colors because of the mineralization.

side useless data they have the Royal Pines up there , a very fast growing Large pine, it has candles perhaps 6 " long, but, while beautful, it is assured of safety since it is of a very soft wood.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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stinking.jpgORO, finally found the picture of yourself that you sent. I couldn't find the 'like' mark for your last post so I am saying keep up yer wailing and knashing of teeth, I enjoy hearing of 'your' trials and tribulations hehe Tell yer doggie to give you a slurp every so often until we meet and you offer me a huge cuppa coffee -----,

The last time I had to bring my own from Mexico.. --> OXXO <-- pretty good, ya cheap skate. as bad as Cactus and my lost steak..

So you woulda, shoulda, have been a millionare, but if so, I would never have been able to meet BETH, the man eating HOUNDS of Baskervill and you.So ya see you traded a mine worth millions just to meet ME, sigh gracias.

Incidentally that particular maneater that sniffed me out, can have a slurp the next time. but no flesh samples.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. what a long winded, disconnected way just to say I liked your last post.



'
 

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