El Malpais

Oroblanco:

I am honored to hear from you Mr. O. No, sir I didn't mean to imply that
gold travels around like a hot air baloon. I should have added that the raw
ore would have been moved, not of it's own accord. Of course the campfire
cache might still remain but no human tribe would have simply abandoned it.

I know legend tells us the nomadic peoples had no use for it. But I suggest
they actually did and would kill to keep it. It may have had no practical use
that we know of but they traded with the unscrupulous comancheros and
others and were not so stupid to just leave it lay.

I also think the legend is highly inflated as to the amount the Adams party
dug before being attacked. The geology around the most likely site is just
not that riddled with placer deposits. The only place in western N. Mexico
that I know of that had numerous placers is west of Elephant Butte Lake.
I had a second hand report of a miner who supported himself back in the
60's in the gulches that fed into EB.

I know a lot of shoe leather has been ground away by persistent searchers.
not me but another I am aware of. I have reason to believe no one yet has
located that canyon but who can say?

I am looking forward to hearing of your sucess or otherwise in the Black
Hills area.

sincerely,
lastleg
 

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HOLA amigo Lastleg, thank you for the kind words! I clearly mis-understood what you meant, and yes I agree that the already-mined gold likely has been moved. I also agree that not all Indios were so utterly unaware that gold had trading value either - in fact the Black Hills gold rush all started because Indios brought in gold nuggets to trade at Fort Robinson, and told the traders they got it from the hills - (then Custer was sent in to verify or disprove the story and he gets the blame/credit for the gold rush) and this is documented. Even in the Adams story, it is apparent that Nana knew the yellow metal was valuable to the whites and made the agreement.

There are a few placer gold deposits in western NM, don't have the refs handy but I don't think any of them were too impressive. In Adams story, the amount of gold MAY have been what he said, as it was a group of men working over time and pooling their gold, plus a "coffee pot" may not have been a huge coffee pot either, maybe a fairly small size of a few cups. The large nugget shown by Adams to various people lends credence to his story (for me) and I do not believe anyone has ever found it since.

I have to sign off for the night here shortly, having internet problems. (Drat - just when it gets interesting)
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Roy ~ Oroblanco
 

Oroblanco said:
... There are a few placer gold deposits in western NM, don't have the refs handy but I don't think any of them were too impressive. ...
Click to expand...

The most significent placers were primarily in and around Pinos Altos, NM, where it's still not uncommon to find color if you look in the right places. However, these Bear Creek placers, rediscovered in 1860 when the town was founded (with much evidence of Mexican work done in the 1700's), predated the usual LAD timeframe by about four years, although at least one version of the legend (W.W. Williams') sets the date as the late 1850's. As most LAD researchers know, Jacob Snively was reported to have ridden into Pinos Altos with 500 ounces of placer he recovered '125 miles due north of Pinos Altos' (at least that's the story that's been told). Many speculate that Snively was the 'Dutchman' in the Adams party, and that he made off with his share before the Apaches killed the remaining prospectors.

This LAD legend is a huge can of worms and I suggest that the new researchers develop a strong frustration tolerance, because with all the conflicting material out there, they're going to need plenty of patience trying to sort it out.
 

Check out Moggollon and the catwalk. You can still pan mercury from the creek that was washed out from the smelter in the big flood. Still plenty of gold.
 

I read your post with interest. As Emery's daughter, I have much to disagree with but I understand that stories can get spun out of control. Yes, Dad was interested in the gold and took me to visit Gus several years before. I remember sitting in their simple cabin with a dirt floor and visiting with Gus and Sugarfoot. He was never threatening to us and I remember him as odd but never dangerous. My father adored my twin, Erik, and would never intentionally put him in danger. They both went to New Mexico to deliver bibles to the area families. As I am sure Dad was still interested in talking to Gus about the gold (since Gus was getting very old) he was also concerned about his spiritual life. He wanted to see if Gus had made peace with God. Of course, I had never heard about his previous run ins with the law. Yes, my father had poor business acumen as he trusted too many people and extended credit to those unworthy of that grace. He wanted to believe in and help others, especially during this period of his life. He was not a greedy man and would never put people in danger for such a motive.
 

Springfield said:
For decades, from the 1930's when he was run out of Grant County and settled at the edge of the Grants lava flow on Hwy 117, until his death in the early 1980's, Gus Raney was widely rumored to be the guardian of some sort of golden treasure located within the lava flow. Descriptions of the treasure vary greatly, but Gus allegedly killed more than a few TH-ers snooping around in the malpais.

By the way, when Gus died at age 104, he was sitting in a jail cell awaiting trial for double murder of a retired trasury agent and his son who were allegedly looking for gold in the malpais.
Click to expand...

do you know what treasure Gus was linked too?
 

dlogua1756 said:
Springfield said:
For decades, from the 1930's when he was run out of Grant County and settled at the edge of the Grants lava flow on Hwy 117, until his death in the early 1980's, Gus Raney was widely rumored to be the guardian of some sort of golden treasure located within the lava flow. Descriptions of the treasure vary greatly, but Gus allegedly killed more than a few TH-ers snooping around in the malpais.

By the way, when Gus died at age 104, he was sitting in a jail cell awaiting trial for double murder of a retired trasury agent and his son who were allegedly looking for gold in the malpais.
Click to expand...

do you know what treasure Gus was linked too?
Click to expand...

No. Speculation ranges widely: Lost Adams site; 'Church treasure'; gold from Spanish packtrain massacre at The Narrows; and Lordsburg bank robbery loot are the ones I've heard. If I had to guess, based on Raney's past and some information passed down from the Hidalgo County's sheriff's family, I'd go for the bank robbery stash - gold coins for the railroad payroll. Just my opinion, no evidence.
 

chezsarge said:
I read your post with interest. As Emery's daughter, I have much to disagree with but I understand that stories can get spun out of control. Yes, Dad was interested in the gold and took me to visit Gus several years before. I remember sitting in their simple cabin with a dirt floor and visiting with Gus and Sugarfoot. He was never threatening to us and I remember him as odd but never dangerous. My father adored my twin, Erik, and would never intentionally put him in danger. They both went to New Mexico to deliver bibles to the area families. As I am sure Dad was still interested in talking to Gus about the gold (since Gus was getting very old) he was also concerned about his spiritual life. He wanted to see if Gus had made peace with God. Of course, I had never heard about his previous run ins with the law. Yes, my father had poor business acumen as he trusted too many people and extended credit to those unworthy of that grace. He wanted to believe in and help others, especially during this period of his life. He was not a greedy man and would never put people in danger for such a motive.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your memories of everything...but who is "Sugarfoot"?
 

In my younger years, I knew of Gus and a friend of his named Paul. The treasure Gus he was keeping was in the lava field about 3 miles from his cabin. There is a small volcano there and was used by the Air Force during WW2 as a bombing target. Gus and Paul referred to the cache as the church because it had a bunch of gold from the Spanish. Gus and Paul found this treasure after learning of it from an old Indian that lived in San Raffel. Gus told Paul never to go back to the cache because he claimed it and he would kill him if he did. Paul snuck back in and loaded up according to the story. There was a treasure hunter named Apache Jim Wilson that also knew of this and I think he may have found it. It all sounded like BS but I did go in looking for it and found everything Paul described. I have spent years looking into this story and feel there is something to it. I could write a book on this. .. At any rate, if interested contact me and I'll share what I know and maybe, just maybe.
 

I am curious if anyone has a GPS coordinate for Gus Raney's place on the east side of the malpais? If you do, please post it.
 

Lat. 34°42'38.73"N Long. 108° 0'5.96"W If you want to drive out sometime let me know.
 

Ecominer, I would love to drive around in that area with you. Please let me know if your offer is still open.
 

I haven't posted here in awhile, but want to ask if anyone knows where the El Encierro Trail is in the malpais that enters the lava from the north? If you can point me to where the trail starts at the edge of the lava, I would appreciate it.
 

Last edited:
UncleMatt said:
I haven't posted here in awhile, but want to ask if anyone knows where the El Encierro Trail is in the malpais that enters the lava from the north? If you can point me to where the trail starts at the edge of the lava, I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Hey Unclematt. All I see on a BLM map of El Malpais is Cerro Encierro ( sp confined hill) and looks like access is on a trail Mesita Blanca. Most trails are not named at least on this map.
Location is aprox 34deg 52' 30" x 108deg 02' 15" there about.
The trail is more NW than N. off the road from the ice cave and goes thru the lava flow.
 

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any you fellas have dragoon relics?

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