Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

[Cubfan64]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Boy that's a beautiful and crystal clear photo T. Parker! Nice "backyard"

People constantly tell me my wife and I will be bored to death if we retire early, but it seems to me we have LOTS of things we want to do with our lives other than work 40 hours a week to make someone else rich. I can tick off a dozen things we want to do from volunteer work to my personal favorite - exploring the Superstitions (hehe).

Mind if I steal a copy of your photo?

Being free of a clock is the best thing ever, Set yourself up so you don't owe anyone any money is the first thing to do...Then the world is your playground Photo is all yours my friend...I could send you a much larger one if you like.

I like your new name Yah, I'd love a larger copy of that - it's hard to find really rich color photos with that much clarity to use for backgrounds and such. I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address. Thanks.

 

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[Furness]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

DE your complaining about others is rather like a kid saying i can hit you but don't hit me back,
you came on here talking about stones that can be used to talk to god, claiming you were a female, who from your posts seemed to spend most of your time running round the supers in the nude apart from wearing a couple of 45's,
then when people responded to your theory, you immediately started to attack them not what they posted,
yes Joe can be a bit prickly, but i take that as meaning he doesn't suffer fools gladly,
and yes he does and has backed up his friends on here, including me a couple of times, but only when he thinks they are right, he's a pretty straight guy,
and the person who has contacted you about Joe, i suggest you read their posts over the last couple of years and make your own mind about them before believing anything they have sent you in a pm or email,
and in answer to your pm to me, my post wasn't a try it was an opinion,

John

 

[Furness]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Tom,

I agree with cub fan, beautiful photo,

Hell that's not a backyard that's a bloody country !!!

Cub Fan, i retired some time ago and i don't know how i found time to work, so much and so many things to do, enjoy your retirement when it gets here,

John

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

John,

Nice to know there are people out there who will stick up for someone like me. I'm not always right, and I know that. On the other hand, I don't lie, and I believe what I say/write. On the other hand, I am getting pretty forgetful.......

I believe I am out of hands, so thanks.

Joe

 

[Furness]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Thanks Joe, i know you don't lie and you do believe what you write, I've read most of your posts over the last couple of years so have gained a pretty good idea of what your like as a person,

don't worry about running out of hands, just take off your socks and wave your feet !!!!!

John

 

[Felinepeachy]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

[mod] The eagle has landed..........permanently!![/mod]

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

John,

Nice to know there are people out there who will stick up for someone like me. I'm not always right, and I know that. On the other hand, I don't lie, and I believe what I say/write. On the other hand, I am getting pretty forgetful.......

I believe I am out of hands, so thanks.

Joe

i go away for the day and have a nice dinner out with some friends and i really dont go out much .. and when i get back i see all this on the site .. JOe whats all this about and why is DE band if DE is ...


and what did any of this have to do with you or CUB .. i am no longer going to reply to this post its fools ..

 

[coazon de oro]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

AJ TT, What a view! That picture makes me want to go and vacation in your backyard. Wonder if it's showing where the mine is? Shows that you as Don Jose, exist to live, not live to exist.

I thought about going with Coazon Estupido, or Coazon de Plomo like Don Jose put it, but maybe not! I tend to joke a lot in a good way, may have to cut it down some, to live up to my screen name.

This topic was all we LDM hunters had to read for a while. We got some good laughs, and D.E. did succeed in bringing people together. May we meet at some other topic!

Homar P. Olivarez

 

[Springfield]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

AJ TT, What a view! That picture makes me want to go and vacation in your backyard. Wonder if it's showing where the mine is? Shows that you as Don Jose, exist to live, not live to exist.

I thought about going with Coazon Estupido, or Coazon de Plomo like Don Jose put it, but maybe not! I tend to joke a lot in a good way, may have to cut it down some, to live up to my screen name.

This topic was all we LDM hunters had to read for a while. We got some good laughs, and D.E. did succeed in bringing people together. May we meet at some other topic!

Homar P. Olivarez

Right on target, heart of gold. This topic (LDM), like so many others on this forum and others, has seemingly run its course and degraded to yet another spit and whittle social club with all the requisite winks and jabs. The server failure a couple months ago, and the lack of posts when it came back on line, was the straw that broke the camel's back for this topic. If you go back to the TN archives from 10-15 years ago and compare the posts to what we have now, you'll note that this forum is beginning to strongly resemble facebook. Not good, not bad - it is what it is.

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

AJ TT, What a view! That picture makes me want to go and vacation in your backyard. Wonder if it's showing where the mine is? Shows that you as Don Jose, exist to live, not live to exist.

I thought about going with Coazon Estupido, or Coazon de Plomo like Don Jose put it, but maybe not! I tend to joke a lot in a good way, may have to cut it down some, to live up to my screen name.

This topic was all we LDM hunters had to read for a while. We got some good laughs, and D.E. did succeed in bringing people together. May we meet at some other topic!

Homar P. Olivarez

Right on target, heart of gold. This topic (LDM), like so many others on this forum and others, has seemingly run its course and degraded to yet another spit and whittle social club with all the requisite winks and jabs. The server failure a couple months ago, and the lack of posts when it came back on line, was the straw that broke the camel's back for this topic. If you go back to the TN archives from 10-15 years ago and compare the posts to what we have now, you'll note that this forum is beginning to strongly resemble facebook. Not good, not bad - it is what it is.

good observation SF

so your saying i should open my what you think you knew post .. so i can get all those spam troll reply to get the site focused again on who to kill next right ...lol


maybe you should all get together and try to under stand what i have been telling you .. he herd joes dagger theory .. i cant trust anyone on the site enough to lay my cards on the table .. lets get some kind of under standing .. so i can get to redenous this year and end the legend the right way ...

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

AJ TT, What a view! That picture makes me want to go and vacation in your backyard. Wonder if it's showing where the mine is? Shows that you as Don Jose, exist to live, not live to exist.

I thought about going with Coazon Estupido, or Coazon de Plomo like Don Jose put it, but maybe not! I tend to joke a lot in a good way, may have to cut it down some, to live up to my screen name.

This topic was all we LDM hunters had to read for a while. We got some good laughs, and D.E. did succeed in bringing people together. May we meet at some other topic!

Homar P. Olivarez

Right on target, heart of gold. This topic (LDM), like so many others on this forum and others, has seemingly run its course and degraded to yet another spit and whittle social club with all the requisite winks and jabs. The server failure a couple months ago, and the lack of posts when it came back on line, was the straw that broke the camel's back for this topic. If you go back to the TN archives from 10-15 years ago and compare the posts to what we have now, you'll note that this forum is beginning to strongly resemble facebook. Not good, not bad - it is what it is.

Springfield - topics like the LDM just seem to have an ebb and flow to them and eventually if one is here long enough, one finds the same stories and discussions just being hashed and rehashed over and over again until or unless something new comes up. Fact is there is so few real facts to discuss that it mostly boils down to opinions and theories and eventually everyone develops their own and it's hard to see each other's viewpoints.

The thing that often keeps these topics going is "new blood" to come in and ask questions, share information, etc... but even that gets hard after awhile because as I mentioned before, most everything has already been said and said more than once.

As you said, it is what it is

 

[St. Jerome]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am deciding to post here with a question. I would of posted on a more proper topic but they are all taken up by some rambling type mega ego tripper types that have gone way off the mark and so this is as good as any. No offence to anyone but if the shoe fits someone is wearing it. Here is my question. Is there any real proof that the peralta stones lead to the ldm? Other than that they were found in the supperstitions? I believe they are a map to a place where there are many hidden mines and caches. Im not sure I believe it is the waltz mine though. Unless he left a pan on top of a hill by the mine. And then there is more than one site to locate from the stones.

 

[hoops]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Allow me to introduce my self. I’m Hoops. I want to correct a couple mistakes. There were 9 original members of HSI (Holy Stones Inc).
1. Rick Gwynne
2. James Whitehead
3. Marshall Haid
4. Gary Smith (sometimes rotating with other people, but his name was on the claim papers, so I recognize him as one of the original 9)
5. Emory Taylor
6. Beryl Nicholas
7. Alan Tree
8. Salvador
9. Anonymous individual known only to Mr. Taylor -- believed to be Mogens Kiehn; the former Nazi hunter

The next mistake I want to correct is the list of people hunting the deity stone.
1. Phil Reinhardt
2. Rick Gwynne
3. Ralph Henderson
4. Steve Kimball -- not Scott
5. Ron Eagle -- only by association with Ralph Henderson and Steve Kimbal, as he has another site somehow related (I believe he’s posting here)
6. Alan Tree -- but only as a side issue (as money could be made from the sale of the deity stone to German customers), his main object is something else
7. Paul Zellmer -- what Zellmer is looking for is a stone and/or medallion Crawford supposedly removed from a site called the spiral staircase; the stone/medallion may or may not be the deity stone
8 the Johnson brothers -- they are attempting to acquire the deity stone; they aren’t undertaking expeditions

The next mistake I want to correct has to do with the alchemy book Crawford gave to Mr. Taylor. While it may be true there is some formula of importance in it, for me the importance is that the author is Authur Edward Waite, a Grail historian; something in the book pertains to the grail, particularly the German grail. I believe this is what Crawford believed important and why he gave it to Mr. Taylor.

The next mistake I want to correct is the location of the mining claim owned by HSI as it relates to the German holy stones, and Crawford. The place Burns originally hid the holy stones was on a claim owned by him and his wife. Crawford’s Thank You claims covered a small part of the old Burns claims. When Crawford found the stockpile of holy stones, they were on his mining claims. When Crawford hid the holy stones in the small cans he made sure they were on his mining claims. Later a group of people who Crawford claimed where headed up by David Hinchliffe filed claim over the top of part of Crawford’s claim; it’s commonly called claim jumping. Some of the holy stones in the cans where at that time on disputed area; Hinchilffe and his group having claim jumped the area. In 2005 when Crawford was in a wheelchair and knew he had only a short time to live he confided in Taylor and sent him to retrieve the cans of holy stones that were in the disputed area.

The next mistake I want to clear up is who came into possession of the holy stones and when. From what I just said it should be obvious Taylor came into possession of some (not all) of the holy stones long before forming HSI with Gwynne and the others; HSI was incorporated in 2009; the claim owned by HSI was filed in 2009; Taylor came into possession of some of the holy stones in 2005 or 2006 at the latest; that’s nearly 3 years before. The expedition by Gwynne, Taylor, Whitehead and Tree was not until after the claims were filed in 2009.

The next … shall we say possible mistake I want to correct also has to do with possession of the holy stones. There is a rumor … I repeat a rumor that Crawford hid some of the holy stones inside the wall separating his office and lab. The rumor is that during Crawford’s dispute with pinal county planning and zoning, which included Phil Reinhardt, info was given to Taylor by Darlene Rushton (Crawford’s wife at the time) that something was hidden in the wall between the office and lab. Just prior to an inspection arranged by Reinhardt by planning and zoning, Taylor removed a section of the wall and discovered the majority of the holy stones. He repaired the wall with supplies that were there in the adjoining garage from when Crawford hired two local handy men to build the separating between the office and lab. If this rumor is true … I repeat if true (the rumor hasn’t been proven) then Taylor did in fact have the majority of the holy stones in 2006.

By this time Taylor had already spoken to Burt Morrison, so he knew about Crawford putting the holy stones in cans before hiding some at the claims. It’s not certain Taylor had at this time already retrieve the cans of holy stones from the disputed area at the claim; but he had definitely spoken to Morrison, so he knew about holy stones having been put in cans. Continuing with the rumor, Reinhardt was with Taylor when the holy stones from inside the wall were hidden at Crawford’s claims. Taylor had placed these holy stones in cans before hiding them. Reinhardt didn’t know there were already other cans of holy stones put out there by Crawford, and he didn’t know the holy stones Taylor was hiding were from a wall at Crawford’s house, and didn’t even know the stones were German holy stones; all of this was know only to Taylor.

Continuing the rumor … repeating it’s a rumor supposedly Taylor then got Sharyn Berchok (author of the Crawford Memorial and Black Bart Betrayed) to move in Crawford’s place while Crawford was gone to his daughter’s place in North Carolina. Rushton, Taylor and Charlynne Crawford (the daughter) had hatched a plot of getting Crawford locked up in a psycho ward. While that was going on Taylor spread around the rumor Berchok was the one taking down walls at Crawford’s place in search of treasure. Mind you … all of this is rumor. It is not fact. At least it hasn’t yet been proven as fact.

In case any of you are wondering, Phil Reinhardt is the same Phil Reinhardt who is a director for the Superstition Mountain Museum. I personally find it terribly difficult to believe Reinhardt had no knowledge of what was going on. Reinhardt seems to have been directly involved in the plot against Crawford, or at the least in the plot instigated by Taylor to gain possession of the Crawford deity stone; it’s the one believed to be the only true German holy stone; all the others are the secondary holy stones. It’s proven fact (Berchok published the document generated by the hospital) that Reinhardt impersonate Michael Morrison (Crawford’s son) in order to gain access to Crawford against Morrison’s orders. Then having illegally gained access to Crawford Reinhardt got Crawford to change his will. The new benefactors being Gregory Davis (Historical Society), the Superstition Mountain Museum, and Phil Reinhardt.

Later I’ll give you more about Phil Reinhardt, Gregory Davis, the Superstition Mountain Museum, and Taylor’s plot to gain possession of Crawford’s deity stone (the true German holy stone). Right now I correct another mistake. Some of Reinhardt’s and Gwynne’s buddies who are posting to this forum have been trying to get other people to believe this has nothing to do with the Lost Dutchman and his mine(s). It is true HSI generated a report called the Gassler report and it has to do with the LDM and Walter Gassler. But that is not the only connection this story has to the Lost Dutchman and his mine(s). Reinhardt and Gwynne used an aerial photo belonging to Crawford for their solution to the Peralta Stone maps and a possible solution to the location of the LDM. Regardless of what Reinhardt and Gwynne believe, other people believe … absolutely believe the stone maps and the LDM are the same location. Later I’ll give you yet a third connection of this story with the Lost Dutchman and his mine(s).

There is another mistake I want to correct. The buddies of Reinhardt and Gwynne also want others to believe a scam is behind all of this. I can assure that at no time will I ask you or anyone else for money, or to purchase anything, or to invest in anything. There is another misconception stated here by one of Gwynne’s buddies. Never at anytime did HSI or anyone representing HSI find or discover the mentioned trunk full of goodies. If you feel HSI is involved in a scam then please attempt to buy from them or to invest in them. You will find it impossible.

I will not be posting messages here every single day of my life. I do have other things to do. It’s extremely unlikely that I will respond to anything you or others post. I intend to ignore the posts and just continue on telling a story. If you dislike my one sided nature there is an ignore button. No one is twisting your arm or forcing you to read my message. If someone is twisting your arm or forcing you to read this, then you need to immediately report it to the police.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

S.J.,

If you start the Stone Map trail at the bottom of Hieroglyphic Canyon, follow it to the top of the ridge and follow the ravine down into W. Boulder Canyon, there is an X part way down and on the right side (south) of the ravine. There is an empty cave at that location. That cave could very well be Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars. It is empty now.

The second X, is just before you reach W. Boulder, and is also on the right side of the ravine. Not sure what is at that spot.

Another interesting X is the third one on the Stone Maps. It is high up on the east side of W. Boulder. If you follow the directions of the Bicknell article, the ones Ruth was carrying, you would end up very close to that third X. By one of those strange coincidences that seem to fill the LDM legend, their is a sealed mine at that location. However, it is not a pit mine.

The maps are of a specific location(s) in the range, and you now have that map pinpointed. At the exact end of the Stone Map trail, you will find this outcropping:

Good Luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Well then, Thats much better, Laying all your cards out on the table like that and just getting on with the story. Real or Not it will make for an interesting read.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Springfield - topics like the LDM just seem to have an ebb and flow to them and eventually if one is here long enough, one finds the same stories and discussions just being hashed and rehashed over and over again until or unless something new comes up. Fact is there is so few real facts to discuss that it mostly boils down to opinions and theories and eventually everyone develops their own and it's hard to see each other's viewpoints.

The thing that often keeps these topics going is "new blood" to come in and ask questions, share information, etc... but even that gets hard after awhile because as I mentioned before, most everything has already been said and said more than once.

As you said, it is what it is

Aside from people sharing more of their opinions and results of their hard-earned research, the biggest and possibly most significant, new developments have been the people who have disappeared there recently.

It seems strange that, in the past, skeletons, clothing, and other items have been found which belonged to people who had disappeared there many years earlier, but nothing of these recent people has been found, besides a couple articles of clothing, even though several organized search parties began looking almost immediately after their disappearance, and searched for many days.

And, they even had the missing people's map to centralize their searches.

This was followed, on this forum anyway, by the reports that there has been a group of people secretly searching for certain "stones," which are related to that same area, and which they consider highly valuable for various reasons.

Could these two stories be somehow connected?

Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am deciding to post here with a question. I would of posted on a more proper topic but they are all taken up by some rambling type mega ego tripper types that have gone way off the mark and so this is as good as any. No offence to anyone but if the shoe fits someone is wearing it. Here is my question. Is there any real proof that the peralta stones lead to the ldm? Other than that they were found in the supperstitions? I believe they are a map to a place where there are many hidden mines and caches. Im not sure I believe it is the waltz mine though. Unless he left a pan on top of a hill by the mine. And then there is more than one site to locate from the stones.

now lets set aside the personal debate .. and i will answer your questions from what i know my self to be true ..

1 ST: " Is there any real proof that the peralta stones lead to the ldm? "

BB:in fact yes there is .. you know my opioion on the true name of the stones .. most know them as the Peralta stones .. most likely they get this name because of Waltz's accounts of the Peralta minners at their camp .. now is this the truth from Waltz or is it a off shoot from the dick holmes account .. in my opioion it real no longer matters to me .. why because i can in fact prove Waltz account is true of the mine and the peralta camp site .. but with one under standing that goes beyond just the prove at hand .. it could be very well true that the account Waltz told dick holmes was dirrectly from waltz frist hand past ..with one reason that stands out .. the mines that the peralta were working were not Peralta mines at all ..

they had been past to the chruch , how the peralta got the location of these mines is still unknown..

but if these mines are in fact the Ma and Pa mines they were under the control of the Jesuits at the time they were frist named as the Ma and Pa mines .

in the described plot i out line ,, i stated the jesuit had been the creaters of the stones out lineing the details of the plot to send the stones to the pope Urban the 8th .. . the plot went south with someone finding out that the vicroy was talking to the portugese rebels .indirrectly . and he was sent to peru and shortly after the pope Urban the 8th died makeing holding on to the stones very dangerous to anyone . so the stones were hidden away and the Tayopa treasure trove list and letter became a closeing for the jesuit to some time in the future reclam the treasures .. but the codes were so complex and the main group that had wisdom of the stones was masscerd at tayopa .. so in fact the only real truth we can prove is the jesuits and Spainish had been working the mine or were at these sites when the masscerd took place .. we can judge the masscerd did in fact happen as did many threw the years .. but the fact i am trying to point out is the mines were under the control of the spainish and the jesuits when it was named Tayopa . and the mines were named the Ma and Pa . after Marry and Jesus

now to answer your question with a more clear under standing of the Peralta relationship to the mine and the histroy of the mines them selfs ..

it is a matter of what you beleive is posable vs what is the most logical ..

IMHO the mines , speaking dirrectly about the 4 main sites .. the Ma and Pa ,the paramo placer and the hoya are part of the Tayopa minis ,now with the under standing that Tayopa was and still is in two diffrent locations and was spelled in more then 2 or 3 diffrent ways to confuse where these mines were located ..

i beleive the Ma and Pa mines were in fact native American secert sites before they became the mines known as the Ma and Pa ..


IMHO the answer to your question is YES ! and yes i can in fact used the stones translations and pinpiont all 4 of the mines ..
and at lest 3 if not 4 treasures cache and troves ..

now one mans treasure is a nother mans junk .. in this case ,a native american secert place is a treasure as well as any gold mine could ever be ..and is something beyond full respect & honer ...

it is clear to me with out any dout what so ever that Watlz did in fact have a mine and did in fact get it the way this account stated he did and that the mine was in fact real and is in fact the true Ma mine of Tayopa .and yes when it is time i will be more then willing to not only point the mine out i will prove everything i have outlined is true in this statement to you ...

"Unless he left a pan on top of a hill by the mine." these is a interesting clue .. and i do know what it means

the point i was trying to make is you need to under stand what the stones are and who made them and why ..before the truth becomes clear . the translation is a pain in the A** . if you ask me .. but one word or one letter can send you in a totally diffrent dirrection ..


it will be well worth the time effect and money to find out just what is at these sites and if i can work even for a few hours with out danger or distractions ,, what will i uncover ..i know i coverd over 15 miles and i found dozens of interesting objects and evidence but i isolated what i know is man made .. i still beieve one of the rocks i recoverd is a peice of rare osedain ... its gem level and it did not come from the area where it was found .. i dont beleive i showed a photo of it here at the site .. it looks to be one of two things .. arrow head raw stock or some kind of tool ..it was found a few yards away from the wall of dreams ... maybe i can take a few clear pictures and someone here at the site would know what it is ..if it is a tool ..

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I had to undo the ignore just to see what sort of brilliance would come across the screen since i haven't bothered to do so in a few years.
Same o Same o........back to ignore

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I had to undo the ignore just to see what sort of brilliance would come across the screen since i haven't bothered to do so in a few years.
Same o Same o........back to ignore

your name says it all ..good luck see ya ..

 

[drustydog]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am deciding to post here with a question. I would of posted on a more proper topic but they are all taken up by some rambling type mega ego tripper types that have gone way off the mark and so this is as good as any. No offence to anyone but if the shoe fits someone is wearing it. Here is my question. Is there any real proof that the peralta stones lead to the ldm? Other than that they were found in the supperstitions? I believe they are a map to a place where there are many hidden mines and caches. Im not sure I believe it is the waltz mine though. Unless he left a pan on top of a hill by the mine. And then there is more than one site to locate from the stones.

now lets set aside the personal debate .. and i will answer your questions from what i know my self to be true ..

1 ST: " Is there any real proof that the peralta stones lead to the ldm? "

BB:in fact yes there is .. you know my opioion on the true name of the stones .. most know them as the Peralta stones .. most likely they get this name because of Waltz's accounts of the Peralta minners at their camp .. now is this the truth from Waltz or is it a off shoot from the dick holmes account .. in my opioion it real no longer matters to me .. why because i can in fact prove Waltz account is true of the mine and the peralta camp site .. but with one under standing that goes beyond just the prove at hand .. it could be very well true that the account Waltz told dick holmes was dirrectly from waltz frist hand past ..with one reason that stands out .. the mines that the peralta were working were not Peralta mines at all ..

they had been past to the chruch , how the peralta got the location of these mines is still unknown..

but if these mines are in fact the Ma and Pa mines they were under the control of the Jesuits at the time they were frist named as the Ma and Pa mines .

in the described plot i out line ,, i stated the jesuit had been the creaters of the stones out lineing the details of the plot to send the stones to the pope Urban the 8th .. . the plot went south with someone finding out that the vicroy was talking to the portugese rebels .indirrectly . and he was sent to peru and shortly after the pope Urban the 8th died makeing holding on to the stones very dangerous to anyone . so the stones were hidden away and the Tayopa treasure trove list and letter became a closeing for the jesuit to some time in the future reclam the treasures .. but the codes were so complex and the main group that had wisdom of the stones was masscerd at tayopa .. so in fact the only real truth we can prove is the jesuits and Spainish had been working the mine or were at these sites when the masscerd took place .. we can judge the masscerd did in fact happen as did many threw the years .. but the fact i am trying to point out is the mines were under the control of the spainish and the jesuits when it was named Tayopa . and the mines were named the Ma and Pa . after Marry and Jesus

now to answer your question with a more clear under standing of the Peralta relationship to the mine and the history of the mines them selfs ..

it is a matter of what you beleive is posable vs what is the most logical ..

IMHO the mines , speaking dirrectly about the 4 main sites .. the Ma and Pa ,the paramo placer and the hoya are part of the Tayopa minis ,now with the under standing that Tayopa was and still is in two diffrent locations and was spelled in more then 2 or 3 diffrent ways to confuse where these mines were located ..

i beleive the Ma and Pa mines were in fact native American secert sites before they became the mines known as the Ma and Pa ..


IMHO the answer to your question is YES ! and yes i can in fact used the stones translations and pinpiont all 4 of the mines ..
and at lest 3 if not 4 treasures cache and troves ..

now one mans treasure is a nother mans junk .. in this case ,a native american secert place is a treasure as well as any gold mine could ever be ..and is something beyond full respect & honer ...

it is clear to me with out any dout what so ever that Watlz did in fact have a mine and did in fact get it the way this account stated he did and that the mine was in fact real and is in fact the true Ma mine of Tayopa .and yes when it is time i will be more then willing to not only point the mine out i will prove everything i have outlined is true in this statement to you ...

"Unless he left a pan on top of a hill by the mine." these is a interesting clue .. and i do know what it means

the point i was trying to make is you need to under stand what the stones are and who made them and why ..before the truth becomes clear . the translation is a pain in the A** . if you ask me .. but one word or one letter can send you in a totally diffrent dirrection ..


it will be well worth the time effect and money to find out just what is at these sites and if i can work even for a few hours with out danger or distractions ,, what will i uncover ..i know i coverd over 15 miles and i found dozens of interesting objects and evidence but i isolated what i know is man made .. i still beieve one of the rocks i recoverd is a peice of rare osedain ... its gem level and it did not come from the area where it was found .. i dont beleive i showed a photo of it here at the site .. it looks to be one of two things .. arrow head raw stock or some kind of tool ..it was found a few yards away from the wall of dreams ... maybe i can take a few clear pictures and someone here at the site would know what it is ..if it is a tool ..

Didn't Amy Mosier settle this before?

Treasure Maps of the Superstitions: The Peralta Stone Maps Show a
Route to a New and Different Treasure Than the Lost Dutchman's
Mine.
Amy Michelle Mosier (2006)