doctored cypher

[allenroyboy]

Since the Hart story says they were already numbered then this concern is moot. No one had to guess.

 

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[bigscoop]

Since the Hart story says they were already numbered then this concern is moot. No one had to guess.

They didn't get/see them until way after the whole affair.

 

[bigscoop]

The TJB from Botetourt County that Brad Meltzer's mentioned in his show DECODED. Also was mentioned by P. Viemeister in his book on the Beale Treasure. He would be the one that was found. Trouble is I have found 17 TJB's or at least TB only two with the "J" The one from Botetourt and another from Washington County, PA who had a brother that was a congressman from Ohio during the War of 1812.

The document Meltzer had on his show actually had/has a "Thomas Beale" signature on it that was not displayed, not initials, and no "J". Is this the same document you're talking about?

 

[allenroyboy]

Since the Hart story says they were already numbered then this concern is moot. No one had to guess.

They didn't get/see them until way after the whole affair.

Since we now know that the 1885 Ward cipher were deliberately doctored, then the entire story is suspect and quite likely an inaccurate novel. The story is probably not worth the paper its written on. The Hart ciphers are apparently pristine and this implies that the associated story is likely accurate, despite it's late publication date. I think the only safe course is to ignore the Ward story altogether.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

arb, your "thing" in Post # 10 is NOT correct... wouldn't get LETTERS. BOOK CIPHER; means you would number each word of VLON Chapt. 1, then decode like DOI was used for BC # 2. Why the VLON? Following the "It was in the second year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...", it was a REBEL (CSA) thang. Vattel's Law of Nation was the ONLY SECRET book of the REBEL (CSA) gov't NOT burned in Danville, Va., contrary to gov't ORDERS, and saved by Major E. S. Hutter, of Sandusky, here in Lynchburg, Va. AND! ONE theory is that F. C. Hutter (brother) was the author of the BEALE PAPERS... will find a web-site of interest, that I am PERSONALLY ok with. Even Peter Viemeister wrote of the CSA "involvement" in his book on "the cover-up"; written as a novel... BUT! FULL of FACTS... A FACTION, not fiction. Just "google" CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVERUP: DUTY, HONOR, & DECEIT Web-site MAY have been removed, as he died a year or so, ago. Another web-site of "interest... http://bealetreasurestory.com/id10.html

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Doing R & I on FC Hutter & N Hazlewood, now. Hazlewood was SGT. in our REBEL army, and MAY have had "connections" with F. C. Hutter. The HAZLEWOOD Ciphers MAY have been BEFORE the BP ciphers, and the HART Bros. on visiting Ward & son re. the BEALE PAPERS... which MAY have "altered" ciphers, done in 1885, you know... I would "go with" the HAZLEWOOD/HART CIPHERS.

 

[allenroyboy]

arb, your "thing" in Post # 10 is NOT correct... wouldn't get LETTERS. BOOK CIPHER; means you would number each word of VLON Chapt. 1, then decode like DOI was used for BC # 2.

That is exactly what I did. I numbered each word of chapter 1 of VLON (in one case using the section headings and in the other not) and put them in the numerical ordering of the cipher and then took the first letters of the words.--just like I did with DoI in BC #2 -- and ta da jibberish. unless there are different VLONs, it's not a key.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Far as I know... only ONE VLON; maybe a REBEL Code/Cipher was used. Share what ya got; SHOULD be a bunch of words (like the DOI); then, maybe a sequence of letters will "spell out" the locality.

 

[allenroyboy]

I tell you what. How about I offer to anyone who wants a copy of my Excel spreadsheet. that way you can check out what I've done and experiment on your own.. Just send me an email...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sounds good... how about a PM?

 

[allenroyboy]

PM doesn't allow attachments other that photos

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ok... Coffee?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

THIS is what I think happened; it is ALL REBEL assets; $$$$$$$$ & "weapons". A "cipher" was created by REBEL spies, gov't officials, etc. as the yanks came west, after the downfall of Richmond, Va. (why TJB's companions SUDDENLY had to go to Richmond, Va.). Lynchburg, Va. was the state capital of VIRGINIA for FOUR days; PLENTY of time for SECRET "WORKINGS" (ie CIPHER(S) as numbers on sheets of paper). By 1885, a "cover story" was "built" around the cipher(s), based on REAL events ("BE") and "linked" with cipher(s)/"treasure". LATER, Newton Hazlewood (REBEL SGT in the Confederate WAR, and POSSIBLE "spy") asked CLAYTON HART to "copy" sheets of papers (in duplicate); WHO were the EXTRA copies gonna "go to"? NOW! THIS is the "tricky" part; I don't think BC # 1 or BC # 3 were meant to be deciphered; just gibberish "non-sense"; ONLY BC # 2 was "deciphered"... HA! REBS just used it as a "shotgun" RANT/broadside against Abe Lincoln and yanks. The ONLY ppl who "KNOW", are the members of the INNER CIRCLE;
The REST of us are "stuck" with MEANINGLESS BC # 1 & BC # 3... just MHO. Coffee?

 

[bigscoop]

Here's something to maul over in regards to the two remaining ciphers;

When we compare the differences in the two remaining ciphers the differences between the Hart copies and the Pamphlet copies are very small, so once the proper language was generated and constructed that correct language would eventually dictate the required letters in these few locations. However, C3 is actually a different kind of beast that probably required no additional/extra coding practices because it is dealing with names and locations. Surnames and names of locations come from a wide variety of heritages in this country, i.e., Dutch, German, French, Irish, Spanish, Swedish, and so on, and as such many names don't follow the rules of the written American language and when tossed into the same cipher they would be nearly impossible to sort out without a key. This could be why C3 appears to have been very simply arranged, because there was no need to further protect what was already protected enough. Seems like a fairly reasonable possibility to me.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

(SMIRKING) What IS "the proper language"? FRENCH? There ARE French words in the Beale Papers... AND! France DID loan $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the Rebel government (Richmond) during the CONFEDERATE WAR. Are we looking for some kind of FRENCH Cipher/Code? PROBABLY, a FRENCH ROSICRUCIAN CODE/CIPHERS! TJ DID know some FRENCH Rosicrucians during TJ's years in France; I have seen TJ's "doodlings", and it WAS an old FRENCH ROSICRUCIAN CODE... BUT! It is NOT in NUMBERS... LETTERS! (WINK)

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So have you decoded page #1 yet?

Fishing...?