DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[mdog]

Here's a possible link between this legend and your area.

The latitude of the sacred mound, Nanih Waiya is 32deg 55' 17". This place is in Mississippi.
Victorio Peak, far to the west, is at 32deg 55' 26".

Kinda strange.

There is a place along the coast in Israel named Acre (Akko). The middle of the old city is at 32deg 55' 18".

History & Overview of Acre | Jewish Virtual Library

 

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[Oroblanco]

Not to be a wet blanket on the 33 degree latitude thing, but the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, Greeks etc had a different equator, which was incorrect (too far north) so it would not have been the 33rd degree of latitude to them.

 

[Springfield]

Not to be a wet blanket on the 33 degree latitude thing, but the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, Greeks etc had a different equator, which was incorrect (too far north) so it would not have been the 33rd degree of latitude to them.

That 'old' equator line is quite intriguing, as its odd angle seems to intersect a number of ancient archaeological sites all over the earth. It seems that these ancient cartographers knew quite a lot about far flung locations all around the planet. Here's a website that discusses this interesting 'Great Circle': http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/2012-and-old-equator/

Keep in mind that latitude, including the 'present' equator, is not arbitrary, but is fixed by the rotation of the earth about its polar axis and the planet's sun orbit. 33° north latitude is a constant line until the axis of rotation changes. This may explain the 'old' equator.

The present pole positions may well have shifted in the past, in which case the 'old' equator may have been the 'true' equator at some time before the shift - and the reason for the placement of those ancient structures at that time. The timing of such a major shift is speculative and debatable. Some folks place it ~11,000 years ago - the time that many say was when Atlantis was suddenly destroyed.

I believe for purposes of navigation, the Egyptians, Greeks, Phoenicians, etc. used our present earth model for their cartography. Therefore, 33° north latitude was likely the same line for these people as for us, or very close to the same. Going back in time beyond these Mediterraneans? - things may have been different.

 

[Springfield]

I have seen some of the things that have come out of the caballo's , and I have seen many different types of gold and silver bars, the two gold bars that I saw had Spanish symbols, Im sure they were fake,even the symbols didn't make sense, but I can honestly say most of the gold and silver bars that I saw would predate the Spanish, and a lot of the other items ive seen were Aztec and early
jewish christion religious items, which at the time was very curious to me, any one else see this type of gold or silver bars from the caballo's, please let me know. np

I posted the following a few years ago. It's still my favorite Caballos story.

The Caballo Craftsman Wrench
First, some background. Back in the 1970's, there was much small-time mining activity occuring in the New Mexico mining districts. One type of activity was to take advantage of the legitimate mining companies that were busy staking out large claim blocks in mineralized areas. Small-time operators were able to make money by selling legal claims to the bigger companies by virtue of holding 'nuisance groups' in the midst of the companies' larger holdings. A little courthouse research and some nimble claim staking could place a clever 'prospector' a step ahead of the big boys. This was traditional straight forward opportunism, common practice in mining districts for generations.

An unusual twist in the 1970's US tax code offered a new type of opportunity for mining people. Rich investors of all types found themselves with heavy tax obligations that could be offset by spending money in legitimate 'tax shelters'. Bona fide investments in legal business ventures that lost money was an advantage to people who otherwise would be obliged to turn the money over to the government as income tax. A popular speculative business loss to offset taxes was mining exploration/operation. Many claim stakers, geologists, miners, equipment operators, etc. were hired to burn money in those days by engaging in above-board, legitimate speculative mining ventures which everyone assumed would never turn a profit. Indeed, nobody made a profit, but a lot of money was spent creating jobs for the locals and these expenses offset a lot of taxes for the money guys. They had fun, saved money and created real work. A win-win deal.

One of the edgier 'investments' of the day was in treasure hunting scams. The Caballo Mountains were crawling with shady characters looking for investors to finance treasure recovery expeditions. After all, the Caballos were full of sealed caves full of Spanish gold bars, and those in the know were willing to sell shares in expensive recovery operations, as long as somebody else was willing to foot the bill. Some of the investors looked at the treasure hunts as a fun lark and an easy way to burn money. Some were gullible and believed they would soon be fabulously wealthy - very soon.

One particular recovery operation was led by two of T or C's most notorious scammers, both now deceased, who (well-known to locals) shall remain unnamed. The investment group was shown an old caved-in tunnel in the mountains, old maps, historical legends, scientific geotechnical reports, etc. and presented with a recovery plan that would cost lots of money. The two in charge would be due very steep salaries and operating expenses, and the gold bars would be divided amoung all involved when recovered. The contracts were signed, money was put up and the work began.

There was good progress at first clearing part of the tunnel and all were excited. Then there were many lengthy delays, all the time the two scammers drawing their generous paychecks. The investors were brought in routinely for progress meetings. Things dragged on. Lawyers were needed to burn red tape. Equipment broke down and needed expensive repairs. New geotech scans (expensive!) were ordered and the results were very encouraging. Finally, after a couple years, there was a breakthrough. A solid timbered plug was encountered in the tunnel - Spanish! Behind the door may lie the riches of the world. The investors were summoned to the site to be present for the big moment when the plug would be removed and all concerned could gaze, hopefully, on the stacks of gold bars.

The timbers came down and the scammers and their flock reverently entered the treasure chamber behind the big wooden door. They cautiously advanced further down the tunnel with high expectations, but no gold bars were found - only another cave-in! Damn! Well, only one thing to do - spend more money to remove the newest cave-in and keep progressing. As the disappointed investors turned to retrace their steps back towards the big wooden door and back out to the sunlight, one of them happened to shine his light off to the side near the cave-in and saw a metallic reflection! Gold?!? No, it was a big bright shiny Sears Craftsman adjustable wrench that must have slipped out of one of the scammers' tool belts after they faked the cave-in and before they built the big Spanish wooden door. The wrench was inadvertently left on the wrong side of the big door! Ooops!

This particular treasure hunt ended that day, but there have been plenty more since in the Caballos - it's a tradition.

 

[Not Peralta]

Springfield, Great story , while I was sitting here reading it made me start choking on my donut, ha ha, heres one of my favorites, I wont mention any names, but about thirty or so years ago,a regular in apache junction said he found some signs on the face of the mountains at the massacre grounds at gold field, and claimed to have them deciphered to show a kings name, after a month or two there was a big camp set up at goldfield,pretty soon there was a movie production company filming these people digging a deep hole under a rock at the massacre grounds,this went on for several months, one day I drove past there and every thing was gone except for some old army tents,i saw one of the guys in town and I asked him what had happened, did they find a treasure, the guy said no, he said they was down about 30feet and one of the workers started finding trash and smashed old beer cans, he said they got the guy in charge to come up there and when he saw what they were finding he said the guy almost started crying,the next couple of days the guy in charge told every one the movie deal was off, the project was over, and his wife wanted a divorce,and he was broke and wanted to sell every thing at the camp,and he found out his wife was pregnant, o well such is the life of a treasure hunter. np

 

[gollum]

Springfield, Great story , while I was sitting here reading it made me start choking on my donut, ha ha, heres one of my favorites, I wont mention any names, but about thirty or so years ago,a regular in apache junction said he found some signs on the face of the mountains at the massacre grounds at gold field, and claimed to have them deciphered to show a kings name, after a month or two there was a big camp set up at goldfield,pretty soon there was a movie production company filming these people digging a deep hole under a rock at the massacre grounds,this went on for several months, one day I drove past there and every thing was gone except for some old army tents,i saw one of the guys in town and I asked him what had happened, did they find a treasure, the guy said no, he said they was down about 30feet and one of the workers started finding trash and smashed old beer cans, he said they got the guy in charge to come up there and when he saw what they were finding he said the guy almost started crying,the next couple of days the guy in charge told every one the movie deal was off, the project was over, and his wife wanted a divorce,and he was broke and wanted to sell every thing at the camp,and he found out his wife was pregnant, o well such is the life of a treasure hunter. np

Depending on how old the trash and cans were, they might have dug up the old Silverlocke and Malm Workings.

Mike

 

[Not Peralta]

Gollum,
Yes, that is a possibility. But I don't think so. Years ago I researched the massacre grounds and surrounding area for the possible source of their gold.
It's a shame they knew where the gold came from and spent all of it searching for more. I spent a lot of time completely going over every piece of ground in that area.
Also had a lot of surveys done for nothing.

There are several things I had mentioned about the massacre grounds and surrounding area that I posted on my other thread.
Above the massacre grounds, on the right hand side, next to the face are several washes. In one of the washes I found the remains of an old stage coach that was
completely dismantled. Also some of the leather riggings that were so deteriorated and brittle that when you picked them up, they fell to pieces.
My suspicion is, is this is where Sliverlock and Malm found their gold.
And if you go above the massacre grounds, and follow the face around to the left, you will find an old shaft that goes down at a pretty good angle.
About three feet inside the shaft, is an old wood burning kitchen stove that must weigh at least 300 or 350 lbs.
There are two things in this area that are very interesting and I've never seen a reference to them.
There are two old mines that are about 50 yards apart. They run from about 60 yards from Goldfield Road all the way up to about 40 yards from the face of the mountain to the left of the massacre grounds. I'm sure no one has ever found them since they were covered. I accidently found them when camping in this area. When I found them I opened each one just enough to get into them. Then covered the parts I'd opened for another time. It's a job for several people, not one.
This was just another thing I never got back to. np

 

[Not Peralta]

Springfield and Gollum,
In the 70's, while camped next to Blacktop Mesa in the Superstitions, about an hour after dark I was just laying in my hammock enjoying the fire.
It was nice and quiet and all of the sudden, I started hearing all this clanging, metal against metal. This guy stowed up at my fire. I was about 10 feet away and the guy never saw me.
I watched him for a few minutes. He had extremely long hair, no shirt and was bare foot. He was talking to himself. He was carrying a canteen, a frying pan and something else in a bag.
He looked like he was starting to get comfortable. Then he saw me. He never said hello, how are you, or anything else to be friendly. All he had to say was "God was sending him through the mountains to find the water". And since he saw my fire, he had something he wanted to cook. While I was being friendly, and trying to explain to him where there was water, he pulled a dead skunk out of his bag.
He started to put it in his frying pan. Just like it was, fur and all. I thought nothing in the world would ever surprise me. But this beat it all.
I took and run this guy as far out of my camp as possible. That beat just about anything I had ever seen.
Just another mountain story. np

 

[Black Cloud]

Spring - the cable (west end) is still attached to a rock up in BC, but covered with gravel, cactus, etc. I know a couple of stories that seem to possibly fit, but have not found the cave yet.

 

[Springfield]

Spring - the cable (west end) is still attached to a rock up in BC, but covered with gravel, cactus, etc. I know a couple of stories that seem to possibly fit, but have not found the cave yet.

Lots of people have focused there since the days of Willy and Doc - and still are.

 

[Black Cloud]

Im just curious, has anyone had a chance to use the info I posted on here about what doc had hidden next to the spring at Rincon? this is first hand knowledge of something hidden by doc that has never had the location given out to my knowledge. I hope someone takes the time to go look. because, as far as I know the family never did, good luck. np

NP - I am making another trip to the Cabs in a couple of weeks, and will be close to Rincon. I have never been there, have you any explicit directions to the spring? If not, I will ask around. I have a new toy I want to play with, should be a good target. Thanx for the info.MB

 

[Black Cloud]

I found it interesting that you mentioned the two cowboys. They were in my story also. Was an old geologist involved?

 

[Springfield]

I found it interesting that you mentioned the two cowboys. They were in my story also. Was an old geologist involved?

Ha ha ha - MB. I know you/you know me - SC. Ha ha - he was a young geologist at the time, remember?

 

[Black Cloud]

Ha ha ha - MB. I know you/you know me - SC. Ha ha - he was a young geologist at the time, remember?

Louie --- I was beginning to wonder whom that was, I thought I may had found the missing link. haha I haven't posted in years, just accidently was reading about the Cabs....I will be out that way in a couple of weeks, the engineer across the pond has another toy working, hopefully it will perform here as well as over there.... Hope you and the family are ok. MB

 

[Springfield]

Louie --- I was beginning to wonder whom that was, I thought I may had found the missing link. haha I haven't posted in years, just accidently was reading about the Cabs....I will be out that way in a couple of weeks, the engineer across the pond has another toy working, hopefully it will perform here as well as over there.... Hope you and the family are ok. MB

All's well here. Good luck with the new gizmo.

 

[Springfield]

... Concerning the Jesuit La Rue discussion ...

You've provided some very interesting French connections to Colorado treasure legends on other threads. Now you've realized that the Organs/Caballos/San Andres legends may have strong French/Jesuit/Templar associations. Who the hell was 'Padre LaRue' and what was he doing there?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I have mentioned that the Jesuits had established a leap frog system of moving the Tayopa.and surrounding mines. production to a Bay just below Matamorros, for loading aboard Jesuit ships for transhipment to Rome.The one thing that bothered me was the time to load the ships. by mule trains would that too long unless they had an intermediate deposist.close by which could be loaded relatively quickly.

This has bothered me for some time, then someone posted a serpent map and it became quite clear The map shows various places in western Mexico in their correct location, not actual location but proper sequence.

The trails all converged then headed for the Victoria Peak area. Why? because it was a natural depository and 'most importantly', it was on the head waters of the Rio Grande / Rio del Norte.

It quickly became logical and feasible. It was used as the collection for the transshipments. When a Jesuit ship was due, they could quickly construct large rafts, then float down the Rio - the longest distance of the trip - to the vicinity of Matamoros where ti would be transferred to the waiting ship, putting the time in anchorage to a minimum, thus lowering exposure time.

At first I resisted the idea, since Victorio Peak is not in a direct line, then I realized that the Rio was nearby and the major part of the journey could be made by water, , the river flow was much greater in that period and was the longest distance of the trip, it could be made by water, which was far faster than a loaded Mule train.

Further Victorio Peak was a natural landmark easily found

So everything points to Victorio Peak, and explains the presence of so many bars.
u
I have no doubt that many others, have used it since, from the Apaches to ? La Rue could have been 'mining' the massive
deposit which was waiting for the never to arrive Jesuit ship.

Tear into this theory my friends show me where I am at fault.

 

[Not Peralta]

Real De Tayopa, I posted this map on the right a while back, every thing had always pointed to the caballo's ,but that didn't work either , this map also has stone tablet signs on it , this map was never made public except by me.. your theory works good, but do you think stuff that was at victorio peak could have been transported even farther west maybe victorio peak was just a warehouse distribution
center.as the map shows.np ps what if part of this map is reversed.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

N Peralta. thanks for that map. In effect it is quite accurate, for that period, As I mentioned, all of those indicated sites from ChinapaS North are in Sonora and Chihuahua,and as I have mentioned, are correct.

No my esteemed friend, I would not reverse your map it is correct as it stands.and again thanks. I normally post where and by whom that sort of data comes from. Hint, where did You find it?
t
.Chinapas, where it starts, was so named 'prior' to the Spanish Occupation of Mexico

Today it is a prosperous mining town, home to the Palmerjo Mine.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

NP, your map is oriented correctly as is, since it shows the Gila river draining to the west.