DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[whiskeyrat]

Our Jeep is Silver/White, with gray/charcoal top and fender flares.

Yes, we would look forward to meeting you. Lately we have been spending time around the Palomas Gap, Burbank Canyon, Granite Canyon, area, but want to get back to Bat Cave Canyon soon.

Do you know Dennis, who is usually on his claim up Apache Gap a bit?

Sorry in the very late reply.

hI, Yes I know Dennis very well. We have gone many places together. I helped pull him out of the ditch when he broke his arm last spring. Hes a great guy.

 

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[whiskeyrat]

So, the hunt got very real this month. I went to the Caballos on Sept 30.
The next day, was climbing up the nw side of angels landing with a long time climbing partner.
He was one of the few that can climb remote areas.
So just as we arrived at the vertical limestone at noon, he suffered a heart attack.
He would not admit he was in trouble, refused to call 911, and so we started back down by the easiest route possible.
About 2/3 of the way back down to my quad, he said he needed to sit down and rest.
As he was sitting down, he just laid back and tipped over.
I called 911 and started cpr.
What made this so real is that it took over 1 hour for a helicopter to locate us. The copter could not land because of the terrain.
He hovered to guide the ground rescue personel. It was another hour before the first help arrived.
Unfortunately it was too late, my partner was dead.
So, I guess what I want to stress is that if you venture into rugged high altitude terrain, dont plan on any quick help if a situation develops.
Be prepared to be your own survival plan. I doubt rescue personnel could have even gotten to us where he initially had the issue.
Luckily we were 2/3 of the way back down. Even at that lower location ground personnel were not really in physical shape to get to us quickly.

On a good note, he died where he loved to be, doing what he loved to do. Quick painless, gone. Not sitting in some rest home drooling on himself.
Its the way he always said he wanted to go.
RIP partner.

WR

 

[jonesy]

Very sorry to hear that sad time

 

[cyzak]

So sorry to hear about your partner whiskeyrat but glad to hear he was happy to be out there doing what he loved. I had almost the same incident happen a couple of years ago we had hiked in 6 miles when things went bad I had a sat phone and had a plan already to go. He got med vac out of there by chopper right were we were at and did survey but messed up for awhile.He came and saw me about 6 months later and thanked me he said I would take a bullet for you Cyzak but I will never hike into that god forsaken place again lol. That's why now I go solo so I do not have that worry and if something happens I was doing what I loved..

 

[markmar]

I'm sorry for your partner passing. I believe was a real shock for you but was so real and is what could happen at every step in those rugget mountains.
My condolences to you and to his family.

 

[mann]

That’s sad to hear, my condolences to the family. That’s a pretty spot there though, sounds like you were between Long Bottom and Wildhorse canyons. Great view this time of year. Keep going WR maybe we will catch you up there sometime soon.

 

[Kat65]

Just joined. My mother and father knew Ova Noss. My father who's now 88 was just talking about it this morning. We lived in Las Cruces in the early 70's. I'm enjoying these posts very much! I'll tell my Dad about it when he wakes up. If you have any questions you'd like to ask him let me know. My mother's been gone for 4 years. She was the true treasure hunter. As a child every Sunday we would go boondocking all over the Organ Mountains before it was closed off. She swore Padre La Rues lost gold mine was there.
She had several articles published on the subject.

 

[Bendsie22]

Just joined. My mother and father knew Ova Noss. My father who's now 88 was just talking about it this morning. We lived in Las Cruces in the early 70's. I'm enjoying these posts very much! I'll tell my Dad about it when he wakes up. If you have any questions you'd like to ask him let me know. My mother's been gone for 4 years. She was the true treasure hunter. As a child every Sunday we would go boondocking all over the Organ Mountains before it was closed off. She swore Padre La Rues lost gold mine was there.
She had several articles published on the subject.

Your Mom was absolutely correct in believing Padre La Rue's Gold Mine ( and Silver Mines ) are located in the Organ Mountains.

His Riches Gold Mine is up Dorcey Canyon on a small Peak at the Head of the Canyon.

His Hand Painted Maps on Boulders and Bluffs were located by My Father and myself , We worked out his Coding and found his Deposit sites.
Most have been recovered by the Government ( Just as was Victorio Peak )

You might ask your Dad if he ever met Harvey Snow from Tularosa, well known Treasure Hunter of New Mexico.
btw, Victorio Peak was not a Padre La Rue stash, it predated his time period, in fact, the deposit pre-dated the Spaniards arrival by many Centuries.

Good to see a Local drop in, welcome to the Forum
Here's a recent recovery of Gold Bars from very close to Las Cruces ( Organ Mountains ) or close enough.
Enjoy the Show, there's a lot new info to be released, I've some work to do before I can flood the Forum with a Data Dump of new Facts.

 

[Doc4261]

Hi NP

If all these maps which you have posted were in Doc Noss possession , I don't understand how he " saw " the Victorio Peak on them . The lil map shows the eastern down landmark the Caballos and after the trail go far NE . Another shows a hill ( mountain ) with many peaks . Another shows a mountain range ( like from a west to east image ) with a gap between and the Elephant Butte to the left , etc. . None of these maps show a clue to describe VP region .
What led Doc Noss to VP ? His intuition or his imagination ? Had Noss the unique map which shows the VP and destroyed it ?
Why Noss didn't told the story what led him to VP ? Nobody from his family or friends knew ? If exist such document , i would like to see or to read it .

Cuz , most people are reading the map wrong.

 

[dougachim]

Where did Noss get the gold bars he had I grew up in the area and have heard these stories forever.

 

[dougachim]

Where did Noss get the gold bars he had I grew up in the area and have heard these stories forever.

If I went down the hole and found gold like the story goes I would have started removing it about 10 seconds after I found it and wouldn't have stopped till it was all far away from any state or military land in the land of entrapment.

 

[dougachim]

If I went down the hole and found gold like the story goes I would have started removing it about 10 seconds after I found it and wouldn't have stopped till it was all far away from any state or military land in the land of entrapment.

Another question, why would there be Spanish gold in New Mexico in large quantities Where was it mined was it the lost gold of the Aztecs I have never heard of the Spanish finding really large quantities of gold in New Mexico.

 

[BennyV]

Another question, why would there be Spanish gold in New Mexico in large quantities Where was it mined was it the lost gold of the Aztecs I have never heard of the Spanish finding really large quantities of gold in New Mexico.

Not sure but I’d have loved to seen some of the papers that were allegedly down there. I’m sure it would have shown some light on what was going on or went on.

 

[sdcfia]

Where did Noss get the gold bars he had I grew up in the area and have heard these stories forever.

IMO, the Noss bars were recovered from the Caballos. He used the bars to establish his Victorio Peak story so that he could divert attention away from the Caballos, and later used the Victorio Peak "cave in" scam as a ruse to bilk investors. Later, IMO, your government used Victorio Peak and the Noss story to launder WWII stolen gold from Europe. Nice and tidy.

The only documented proof (other than circumstantial evidence surrounding Willie Doughtit's activities) re the existence of the Noss bars are his 1939 assays from Hawley & Hawley, Douglas AZ, that were provided on pages 131-132 in the Gold House, The Discovery - a book that also includes testimony from his associates that firmly establishes his Victorio Peak ventures were a scam. Noss was a lifelong grifter, you know. Charlie Ryan finally ended his Victorio Peak shenanigans in 1948.

These assays established that the Noss bars were primarily copper, about 70% (+/-), which accounted for their dark patina. The bars also contained 140 ounces/ton (+/-) of gold and 90 ounces/ton silver (+/-). Interestingly, it's a fact that those values are strikingly similar to the reported gold-rich near surface copper ores recovered by the 18th Century Spanish from the Santa Rita del Cobre mine 50 miles west of the Caballos. How this bullion might have been moved from Santa Rita to the Caballos is unknown, but I for one do not believe in coincidences.

 

[dougachim]

IMO, the Noss bars were recovered from the Caballos. He used the bars to establish his Victorio Peak story so that he could divert attention away from the Caballos, and later used the Victorio Peak "cave in" scam as a ruse to bilk investors. Later, IMO, your government used Victorio Peak and the Noss story to launder WWII stolen gold from Europe. Nice and tidy.

The only documented proof (other than circumstantial evidence surrounding Willie Doughtit's activities) re the existence of the Noss bars are his 1939 assays from Hawley & Hawley, Douglas AZ, that were provided on pages 131-132 in the Gold House, The Discovery - a book that also includes testimony from his associates that firmly establishes his Victorio Peak ventures were a scam. Noss was a lifelong grifter, you know. Charlie Ryan finally ended his Victorio Peak shenanigans in 1948.

These assays established that the Noss bars were primarily copper, about 70% (+/-), which accounted for their dark patina. The bars also contained 140 ounces/ton (+/-) of gold and 90 ounces/ton silver (+/-). Interestingly, it's a fact that those values are strikingly similar to the reported gold-rich near surface copper ores recovered by the 18th Century Spanish from the Santa Rita del Cobre mine 50 miles west of the Caballos. How this bullion might have been moved from Santa Rita to the Caballos is unknown, but I for one do not believe in coincidences.

They refined the copper from Santa Rita at Hacienda Corralitos near Janos Chihuahua. Seems like they would hide it somewhere mear there than the Caballos. There is good gold near Hillsborough but as far as I know there are no Spanish mines around there.

 

[sdcfia]

They refined the copper from Santa Rita at Hacienda Corralitos near Janos Chihuahua. Seems like they would hide it somewhere mear there than the Caballos. There is good gold near Hillsborough but as far as I know there are no Spanish mines around there.

Yes, the Santa Rita ore was mined for Mexican coinage. The gold in the crude ingots historically paid for the shippage to Chihuahua. Was there something else occurring that has been unreported and resulted in a cache in the Caballos? We don't know.

There was definitely more going on at early Santa Rita that to this day has been covered up. I know for certain that Phelps Dodge discovered and disposed of certain things when they owned the mine in the 1980s, but that's another story I won't post here.

Point is that the Noss bars very clearly matched the early Santa Rita ore. Make what you will with it.

 

[sdcfia]

Another question, why would there be Spanish gold in New Mexico in large quantities Where was it mined was it the lost gold of the Aztecs I have never heard of the Spanish finding really large quantities of gold in New Mexico.

An unproven allegation is that an exceedingly large and rich deposit of native gold and native silver exists in caverns somewhere in the Pinos Altos Range in Grant County. Of course, there were numerous underground gold mines worked in that area 1860-1920, including those owned by George Hearst, but nothing has been found that validate the cavern rumors. Rich placer deposits, primarily in Bear Creek near Pinos Altos, were also worked in the same vicinity until about 1980. IMO, the Lost Adams Diggings event was in Bear Creek in 1863, but that's another matter.

So the story goes, it wasn't the Spanish, but a group of European professionals, soldiers and a Royal Engineer that exploited the cavern site 1540-1545 after it was shown to Marcos de Niza by Natives in 1539. These miners were all killed by Apaches along Whitewater Creek in North Hurley NM in 1545 as they attempted to escape the area in a southerly direction from the Pinos Altos Range. Further allegations contend that there are numerous caches of the native metals still secreted in an area that centers in the Map Cave area, located at the foot of the long escarpment SE of Santa Rita.

Did any of this metal also find its way east to the Caballos, which is on the Rio Grande and could have been on an easy route to the Gulf of Mexico and beyond? That's another theory that hasn't been proven.

 

[Riverbum]

I've read SOMEWHERE (?) that the gold bars,etc., coming out of Caballo & Victorio Peak was of the same make, as the Gold that came out of Santa Rita mines/possibly the Cooke Peak area/Mimbres, that the SPANISH mined. I believe there was a LOT of Spanish acitivity around the Gila's & Silver City, mostly to the West of the Rio Grande.(not all) The History around Mogollon Area is filled with Spanish Mining lore & Beyond

 

[sdcfia]

I've read SOMEWHERE (?) that the gold bars,etc., coming out of Caballo & Victorio Peak was of the same make, as the Gold that came out of Santa Rita mines/possibly the Cooke Peak area/Mimbres, that the SPANISH mined. I believe there was a LOT of Spanish acitivity around the Gila's & Silver City, mostly to the West of the Rio Grande.(not all) The History around Mogollon Area is filled with Spanish Mining lore & Beyond

It's a large mineralized zone with a productive history. A lot of the history is known, and I imagine a fair amount isn't. The hills north of Las Cruces towards Hatch, both sides of the river, have many petroglyphs of North African and Bronze Age Mediterranean symbols. Are they genuine or modern copies?

 

[Riverbum]

It's a large mineralized zone with a productive history. A lot of the history is known, and I imagine a fair amount isn't. The hills north of Las Cruces towards Hatch, both sides of the river, have many petroglyphs of North African and Bronze Age Mediterranean symbols. Are they genuine or modern copies?

Sdcfia:
In fact, I have explored those area's and found a supposedly rare sight for the desert, A large Petroglyph Fish right above a spring , you wouldn't know there was a spring directly under your feet until you start scraping the SAND away and water starts welling up. Native Americans as I understand it, didn't carve to many fish symbols ( in the Western USA except Pacific Northwest ) now I wonder about the European influences you just posted.......... I have found OLD mining equipment in the caves/mines just to the east of the river there. Also I was followed around by yet another Border Patrol Guard , I was unaware that he was following me for hours until I met him at my truck, just to the WEST of I-25 border check station