DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[dog the treasure hunter]

Wiskeyrat; If you haven't already, you may want to look to Jesus Christ before entering, no matter they be one or the same cave. I had my ride with satan back in 1971 while following the Yaqui path. Tread careful or you may fall into a "Separate Reality". I smelled the devils breath at 140 MPH.

Id like to hear more of that story Scar.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Scar, ya mean "a yaqui medicin man" yt Carlos Castenada ?

 

[markmar]

Many t-hunters live in a " separate reality " . Maybe they feel better because avoid disappointments .
None Devil Spirit on this Earth can affects a strong character and a healthy brain . Take your destiny in your hands and think enough if you want or if you are ready to do this step .

 

[whiskeyrat]

Scar,
Tell us more.
your post is rather vague.
wr

 

[Not Peralta]

So, with tongue in cheek I am planning which cave I will find first
With that in mind, I am unsure of two? or is it one? of the caves found by Doc.
My question is:
Is the "dead padre" cave in which Doc found the dead padre sitting at a table (the counting padre) with the leather pouch with maps, the same cave as the Doc and Tony Carriga (the Yaqui Indian) cave?
Is it one and the same cave or were these two different caves?
wr

Amigo,I think you would be safe in saying that what ever Doc claimed to have found, was found by Willie D. first. the cave that the dead padre sitting at a rock table was found in was not a cave,but a crack between two rabbit ears rock formation that went down 60 feet to a room that contained the padre with some papers in some kind of leather pouch,also there was supposedly another room with a door which contained Items. NP

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo,I think you would be safe in saying that what ever Doc claimed to have found, was found by Willie D. first. the cave that the dead padre sitting at a rock table was found in was not a cave,but a crack between two rabbit ears rock formation that went down 60 feet to a room that contained the padre with some papers in some kind of leather pouch,also there was supposedly another room with a door which contained Items. NP

PS. I forgot to mention it was considered a counting room, and both silver and gold bars were stacked in both rooms.

 

[whiskeyrat]

PS. I forgot to mention it was considered a counting room, and both silver and gold bars were stacked in both rooms.

I believe this is the vault that Cheatham was looking for with the GPR up near Longbottom canyon on his claims.
Apparently thought he found the rabbit ears.
Seems to me, this does not match Willies cave.
Willies cave was apparently easy enough to enter that the lourius and herberer couples could just walk in.
I dont think these older couples would climb down 60 feet in a crack?
And Reece Palmer as a hunch back cripple could also enter willies cave. I dont think he could climb down into a 60 foot deep crack in his condition.

So, I guess in my mind I have this vault (counting room) is not Willys cave and also different from the Doc/Carriaga cave.
When I find the maps from the dead Padre I will know for sure.
wr

 

[Not Peralta]

I believe this is the vault that Cheatham was looking for with the GPR up near Longbottom canyon on his claims.
Apparently thought he found the rabbit ears.
Seems to me, this does not match Willies cave.
Willies cave was apparently easy enough to enter that the lourius and herberer couples could just walk in.
I dont think these older couples would climb down 60 feet in a crack?
And Reece Palmer as a hunch back cripple could also enter willies cave. I dont think he could climb down into a 60 foot deep crack in his condition.

So, I guess in my mind I have this vault (counting room) is not Willys cave and also different from the Doc/Carriaga cave.
When I find the maps from the dead Padre I will know for sure.
wr

Amigo,you may have the right clues, it was jerry c, that had the wrong location.and the wrong set of rabbit ears, go back and read about the train station again.np

 

[gollum]

I believe this is the vault that Cheatham was looking for with the GPR up near Longbottom canyon on his claims.
Apparently thought he found the rabbit ears.
Seems to me, this does not match Willies cave.
Willies cave was apparently easy enough to enter that the lourius and herberer couples could just walk in.
I dont think these older couples would climb down 60 feet in a crack?
And Reece Palmer as a hunch back cripple could also enter willies cave. I dont think he could climb down into a 60 foot deep crack in his condition.

So, I guess in my mind I have this vault (counting room) is not Willys cave and also different from the Doc/Carriaga cave.
When I find the maps from the dead Padre I will know for sure.
wr

You can't forget one thing;

There were two caves. A treasure cave up the mountain and the stash cave in Hackberry Draw. The Loriuses and Heberers (and Willie Stromm) were likely killed at the stash cave (smoke hole).

Mike

 

[whiskeyrat]

Amigo,you may have the right clues, it was jerry c, that had the wrong location.and the wrong set of rabbit ears, go back and read about the train station again.np

I have not forgot "the rabbit ears above the train station". I have already been at all the old 1930's train stations and am searching certain areas from that side. But, the train stations are a long way from the mountains. Hard to see any "rabbit ear" formations from that distance.
I wonder if Doc meant something other than a true train station. Like perhaps something he and Ova called a "train station"?
You mentioned maybe the "train station" was a rock formation perhaps?

The only place a train station is even close to the mountains is down at Rincon.
The stations are nothing but a lot of junk now. Sad to see. Also, all fenced off now by the RR. Only one crossing over the RR tracks that I have found so far, about a mile north of Gramma.
That entire area east of the Caballos has really changed since 1929.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

You can't forget one thing;

There were two caves. A treasure cave up the mountain and the stash cave in Hackberry Draw. The Loriuses and Heberers (and Willie Stromm) were likely killed at the stash cave (smoke hole).

Mike

Yes, on the surface that seems a good explanation: For 2 older tourist couples to park at Hackberry Grove and walk to any cave in that area, it would seem that it must have been the smoke hole cave.
Its easy to find and anyone could walk to it from the Hackberry Grove.
But then, Doc said he had found willies cave and saw bodies in the cave and Ova was mad at him for "leaving those people in that hole".
That was circa 1935, the bodies were still in the cave.
It seems if it was the smoke hole, the authorities would have found the bodies since they did search all the suspect areas after the disappearance and even dug with equipment where tipters has said it might be, and did not find anything.
Since the bodies were there later for Doc to see, I just cant get my head around it that it was the smoke hole which was and is very easy to find.
wr

Its almost like Willies actual treasure cave has to be almost as easy to find as the smoke hole but has never been found??

 

[sdcfia]

I have not forgot "the rabbit ears above the train station". I have already been at all the old 1930's train stations and am searching certain areas from that side. But, the train stations are a long way from the mountains. Hard to see any "rabbit ear" formations from that distance.
I wonder if Doc meant something other than a true train station. Like perhaps something he and Ova called a "train station"?
You mentioned maybe the "train station" was a rock formation perhaps?

The only place a train station is even close to the mountains is down at Rincon.
The stations are nothing but a lot of junk now. Sad to see. Also, all fenced off now by the RR. Only one crossing over the RR tracks that I have found so far, about a mile north of Gramma.
That entire area east of the Caballos has really changed since 1929.
wr

How about Engle? Here's an old photo of its station, which I believe no longer exists. Doesn't matter - just go to the crossroads and look back toward the Caballos' east slope. Maybe you're searching on the wrong side of the mountains.






.

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo'sThe rabbit ear rock formation is suppose to be above the train station, could it be the same station ,or place were Doc and Ward got on the train with a gold bar, the same were ward got hurt ,I dont know.just a thought. np

 

[whiskeyrat]

How about Engle? Here's an old photo of its station, which I believe no longer exists. Doesn't matter - just go to the crossroads and look back toward the Caballos' east slope. Maybe you're searching on the wrong side of the mountains.

View attachment 1259594

I have been to, from south to north: Rincon, Grama, Upham, Aleman, Cutter and Engle. These are the trains stations, east of the Caballos, from the 1930's that I know of.
Grama is 4.5 miles east of the mountains and by the time you get up to Upham, you are 8 miles east of the mountains.
So hard to distinguish any details on the mountain peaks.

At Upham there is still an old building. Been pretty much vandalized and looted.
wr

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

I have not forgot "the rabbit ears above the train station". I have already been at all the old 1930's train stations and am searching certain areas from that side. But, the train stations are a long way from the mountains. Hard to see any "rabbit ear" formations from that distance.
I wonder if Doc meant something other than a true train station. Like perhaps something he and Ova called a "train station"?
You mentioned maybe the "train station" was a rock formation perhaps?

The only place a train station is even close to the mountains is down at Rincon.
The stations are nothing but a lot of junk now. Sad to see. Also, all fenced off now by the RR. Only one crossing over the RR tracks that I have found so far, about a mile north of Gramma.
That entire area east of the Caballos has really changed since 1929.
wr

Here's a set of Rabbit Ears for you Whiskey rat, on the east side of the Caballos looking west, iam sure easily seen from 50 miles away.
View attachment 1259904

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Whiskey rat, I removed that photo, ill send it to you thru a P.M. with the GPS heading. Just in case its the spot, so you can hopefully have it to yourself in 2016. Good luck.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Darn Whiskey Rat, I couldnt figure out how to send it by a P.M. It was asking for a URL.? Let me know if you want me to post it here,with out the GPS.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You can't upload pictures for pm, you have to use a hosting site which is why it was asking for a URL.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Thank you, Treasure Hunter.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

It looks like this Whiskey Rat, but the ears are closer together and more rounded on top,instead of pointed.And it looks like that dotted trail goes to where the Ears are at.View attachment 1259931