Do you trust your neighbor to own a sword?

[Treasure_Hunter]

Duckshot:

I'll take expert solutions over amateur ones every day of the week.

When I was very ill, I went to an experienced medical specialist. i didn't ask my barber or a random taxi driver for advice.

As to what problem must be solved, I quoted the data above - no need to repeat it. People either correctly perceive there's a very serious issue with school children getting gunned down or they don't. More Americans have been killed by firearms since Bobby Kennedy was killed in a LA hotel than died in combat in every war our nation has fought - from the Revolution to this morning.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

The statement needs qualifiers as those deaths include people killed by police, killed by citizens defending homes other citizens and theirselves and suicides as well as gang warfare against each other..

"Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[4] In 2018, the most recent year for which data are available as of 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) National Center for Health Statistics reports 38,390 deaths by firearm, of which 24,432 were by suicide and 13,958 were homicides.[5][6]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

63.6 % were suicides, someone wants to commit suicide they will, gun or no gun. Instead of guns say they slit their wrists with steak knives are we going to blame steak knives and restrict their access and ownership?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[Duckshot]

Would you mind citing the statistics supporting the claim of more Americans killed by firearms than all who died in combat (collectively) since the Revolution?

I ask only because the claim seems suspect.

As for the serious issue with children getting gunned down - isn't that illegal?

If I recall correct, the lone city of Chicago has been giving our K.I.A. from the Middle East a run for their money for quite some time. But it's illegal to so much as fire a gun within city limits, and IL state residents are required to carry a card identifying them as a gun owner and allowing them to purchase ammunition. Chicago Illinois has the strictest gun laws in the nation, and they got as much chance of curbing violence with gun laws as they got of Beetle Juice turning into a star...

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

In the context of the era the amendment was drawn up , a military consisted of what?
A review of 1781-82 was fresh back then. Any volunteer that could shoot straight and had the means to do so would be most welcomed.
More , a military is limited in mobility and very importantly , timing. To be everywhere at once is logistically impossible..
Citizens were (and often still are) on thier own hook when under assault.
We've been sucker punched repeatedly since. Nothing new going on there.

Option one was a giant military. There were minds that didn't like the concept. Having soured on military might "enforcing" , and impressing upon civilian life.
Then there would be the costs and logistics again.
Armed capable citizens were a sound alternative to national and social security.

Very well said. I will add that to those who say "but the military then were carrying singe-shot muskets". True. But they also had cannon. And it was not uncommon, and perfectly acceptable, for private owners of commercial ships to mount big 'ol cannon on them. Keeping parity with similar sized "official" naval ships.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

When I first heard that statistic I found it very hard to believe. Sadly, it's quite true. The numbers are readily available.

United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia

PolitiFact | PBS commentator Mark Shields says more killed by guns since '68 than in all U.S. wars

[Keep in mind Mr. Shields made that statement in 2012 - almost a decade ago.]

To be clear - some 80 Americans are killed by a firearm every day. Many of them by suicide. Would a waiting period prevent some of those or otherwise change the numbers? I've seen Brian Copeland's powerful one-man play "Waiting Period." I believe it would.

Of course it's illegal to shoot children. No serious person is debating that, so why bring it up? And I would hope no serious person would debate that it's a very serious problem. "Mass shootings" are getting worse in our nation. Personally, I think that's wrong. And I firmly believe it would make a great deal of sense if we did our level best to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Treasure Hunter:

You offer the "alternative means" argument. Again - that cuts both ways. If "other means" are so efficient, why do people need firearms?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Duckshot:

There's such a thing as interstate commerce. Some localities do have strict laws about gun ownership. That doesn't prevent people from importing weapons from areas that don't. That's how so many firearms have found their way to Mexico.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[releventchair]

Duckshot:

There's such a thing as interstate commerce. Some localities do have strict laws about gun ownership. That doesn't prevent people from importing weapons from areas that don't. That's how so many firearms have found their way to Mexico.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

What percentage of small arms enter Mexico from the U.S.?
Where does Mexico (it's citizens/residents) acquire heavy arms and munitions?
Don't discount the area and countries South of Mexico should you be near convinced we could starve Mexico of guns...

We have certainly experimented with arming Mexico.
By violating existing law through coercion of those F.F.L. holders by the A.T.F. /our own government.
What did we prove? What was the result? The point?
And who was held responsible for violating our existing law?

Yet we question a neighbors right to be armed?

https://nypost.com/2016/05/21/the-scandal-in-washington-no-one-is-talking-about/

 

[Duckshot]

Duckshot:

There's such a thing as interstate commerce. Some localities do have strict laws about gun ownership. That doesn't prevent people from importing weapons from areas that don't. That's how so many firearms have found their way to Mexico.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Im glad you recognize that the cat is out of the bag so to speak.

How do you intend to curb gun ownership? Are you going to send men with guns to take guns from other men?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Duckshot:

You read into my post(s) something that simply isn't there.

Where did I suggest gun ownership be "curbed?"

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

You find the New York Post to be a reliable source?

Fortune Magazine published a series of articles with a great deal more information.

However, either (or any) way one looks at it, it proves my point.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Duckshot]

Story time.

You all know about time right? Time is always there, has been since the beginning of time, but most of us really don't give much thought to it. The thing about time is that it has the particularly interesting property of only traveling in one direction. The curious thing about this charicteristic of time is that it provides for the natural law of cause and effect. The natural law of cause and effect states that every effect has a cause, and that the effect always occurs after the cause of that effect.

Therefore, you cannot control the past but you can control the future, to some extent, though the future can only be controlled from the present.

Blaming the tool used for the effect instead of the user of that tool is like blaming a clock for the sun setting.

 

[releventchair]

What was the Supreme Courts response to the Federal Government violating it's own policies?
Did it affect opinions? Did it change law?
It did influence the court.

[By JOSH GERSTEIN 01/22/2014 04:31 PM EST
The Supreme Court heard arguments Wednesday in a case that could weaken federal gun-buying laws whose perceived limits are said to have played a role in the intensely controversial 'gun-walking' tactics used by federal officials in Operation Fast and Furious.

The case before the justices involves the scope of federal statutes used to prosecute so-called straw purchases of weapons from gun dealers. A Virginia man, Bruce Abramski, challenged his conviction under two federal laws for purchasing a gun destined for his uncle in Pennsylvania. Abramski said he purchased the gun because, as a former police officer, he was able to get a discount from a Virginia dealer.

Prosecutors involved with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives Operation Fast & Furious were reportedly reluctant to bring criminal cases against so-called straw purchasers because of the difficultly in proving that someone purchased weapons with the intent of selling them to another person.That reluctance contributed to decisions to delay arrests and seizures of weapons, allowing more weapons to flow to suspicious buyers — many of whom sold them on to drug gangs in Mexico.]

https://www.politico.com/blogs/unde...tle-with-law-key-to-fast-furious-storm-181699

[As a result of a dispute over the release of Justice Department documents related to the scandal, Attorney General Eric Holder became the first sitting member of the Cabinet of the United States to be held in contempt of Congress on June 28, 2012, in a vote largely along party lines in a Republican-controlled House. At Holder's request, President Barack Obama had invoked executive privilege for the first time in his presidency in order to withhold documents that "were not generated in the course of the conduct of Fast and Furious." In 2016, a federal court ruled that the records in question were not covered by privilege. A House lawsuit to try to recover the records was settled and the matter dropped in April 2019, after control of the House had shifted to Democrats.]

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure Hunter:

You offer the "alternative means" argument. Again - that cuts both ways. If "other means" are so efficient, why do people need firearms?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Do you actually believe if no one had firearms there would be no suicide? My owning a firearm is my right as an American, as a citizen, as a man, my right to defend my family, my home and myself is a God given right, it is not a right granted to me by a government, it is a right I was born with. The 2nd amendment does not give us a right to own a firearm it guarantees that our right can not be infringed on by the government, the 2nd does not restrict us, it restricts the government.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

"Do you actually believe if no one had firearms there would be no suicide?"

An inquiry untethered from anything I posted.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[releventchair]

"Do you actually believe if no one had firearms there would be no suicide?"

An inquiry untethered from anything I posted.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

we'll rest assured that you will judiciously discount suicides from any posted gun crime statistics then.

[In 2019, the 417 mass shootings tallied by the Gun Violence Archive resulted in 465 deaths.

14,414 people were killed by someone else with a gun in 2019. And 23,941 people intentionally killed themselves with a gun in 2019, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

(Oh , a belated welcome back Book. And continued better heath to you!)

 

[Honest Samuel]

I'm against murdering 600,000+ innocent babies.

I too, including the babies born alive and left to died on the table which is cause murder. Birth Control when babies are not wanted or desired.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Many killings of friends and family members when one is upset or outrage with each other.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

releventchair:

Thank you for your warm welcome and kind wishes. Both are appreciated!

There's no reason to "discount" suicides from any posted gun crime statistics. Those poor folks are dead, killed by a firearm. Such weapons are remarkably efficient - they just don't give people a second chance to consider what they have just done.

However, in my first post I did point out that with just about 4% of the world's population, and the preponderance of privately-owned firearms, we have one of the highest murder rates in the world. And the trend is heading in the wrong direction. It's time to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[releventchair]

releventchair:

Thank you for your warm welcome and kind wishes. Both are appreciated!

There's no reason to "discount" suicides from any posted gun crime statistics. Those poor folks are dead, killed by a firearm. Such weapons are remarkably efficient - they just don't give people a second chance to consider what they have just done.

However, in my first post I did point out that with just about 4% of the world's population, and the preponderance of privately-owned firearms, we have one of the highest murder rates in the world. And the trend is heading in the wrong direction. It's time to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

A gun can add convenience to suicide. It does not cause suicide by exclusivity of the mindset of suicidal thought.
No , I wouldn't have folks committing suicide by gun/thier own hands. Nor by any method.
Yet the mindset is what is beyond carried out suicides.

Blaming the gun does not null the mental aspect desiring suicide.

Here's an opinion.
[Over the last couple of years, there’s been a concerted push by anti-gunners to argue that suicides really should be included in firearm fatalities because gun control would prevent those from happening. It’s an insane argument, of course, because if you made firearms disappear tomorrow, you’d still have a ton of suicides.]

When combined with firearm sales last year , (and prior years of course) and the stress and handwringing of Covid mania....Shouldn't suicides have escalated?
Yet suicides (perhaps more of a mental health issue than crime against others involving a firearm) decreased from the prior year.
No , that does not prove more guns equate to less suicides , anymore than less guns equate to less suicides.
And neither statement touches on the actual mindset behind suicide.

Just has a discussion with a offspring who was raised with and using guns, about suicide among known folks where a gun was used.
What was behind the suicides was the focus. The method was more moot.
I did add mention another party that kept trying.(Encountered him on a Dr. visit where he filled me in.) Far as I know he succeeded eventually. I didn't dig when an obit caught my eye and seemed his.

Are drug overdoses suicides? Are they added to crime statistics?

 

[Duckshot]

There's no reason to "discount" suicides from any posted gun crime statistics. Those poor folks are dead, killed by a firearm. Such weapons are remarkably efficient - they just don't give people a second chance to consider what they have just done.

I had a friend that got killed by a rope, and another that died from gravity . It wasn't by their own hand. It wasn't their fault. The immutable laws of physics murdered them.

I suppose you can blame beer for alcoholism too..

Oh wait, we already tried that, didn't work that time either.

Maybe forks cause obesity. I ain't fat, I am just a victim of the fork.