Do you trust your neighbor to own a sword?

[Treasure_Hunter]

releventchair:

Thank you for your warm welcome and kind wishes. Both are appreciated!

There's no reason to "discount" suicides from any posted gun crime statistics. Those poor folks are dead, killed by a firearm. Such weapons are remarkably efficient - they just don't give people a second chance to consider what they have just done.

However, in my first post I did point out that with just about 4% of the world's population, and the preponderance of privately-owned firearms, we have one of the highest murder rates in the world. And the trend is heading in the wrong direction. It's time to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

What about the 300,000 people who die from obesity yearly, do we ban silverware, those are all needless deaths too.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Duckshot]

A man and an a woman are in the middle of a diviorce hearing when the woman pulls out a gun and shoots her husband dead. She then drops the gun on the ground, bends over, picks the gun up by the muzzle, hold it up and announces "I caught him! I caught the killer!"

The gun is imeadiately arrested. Airtight case.

 

[piegrande]

When Obama talked about gun control, an old man from China said do not let them have your guns. We were told ownership of guns had to be eliminated to make us safe. As soon as they had our guns, they started mass murder of citizens. And, no other reason exists for gun confiscation.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Treasure Hunter:

So your point is there's no point in trying to address a problem?

Just throw up our hands and say there's nothing we can do?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

piegrande:

"Mass murder" in China didn't start in the 1960's.

BTW - Who is advocating "gun confiscation?"

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[beekbuster]

We have SERIOUS societal problems far worse than weapons.

That’s the real problem....why so many crazy wack jobs out there these days?

I mean put a hammer in someone’s hand...they can either build a house or smash people. Who does that? Not me or anyone I know.

If we want to get into statistics...how many mass shootings were caused by people that were or had been taking “medication” who’s side effect is thoughts about harming themselves or others?!!! Mind altering drugs.

absolutely correct. And no 'news' outlet would ever dare bring up that subject. The real cause of the senseless violence.... and im willing to bet nobody is keeping that statistic, id like to see a university try to do that study, they will be denied and gaged, i guarantee it

 

[beekbuster]

When Obama talked about gun control, an old man from China said do not let them have your guns. We were told ownership of guns had to be eliminated to make us safe. As soon as they had our guns, they started mass murder of citizens. And, no other reason exists for gun confiscation.

only the naive and evil are in favor of denying our god given right to bear arms

the only good word I have for that man is he never attempted to constrict our 2nd A rights. but that water is under the bridge, and America is under siege

 

[beekbuster]

I always carry especially with my family and especially in gun free zones.

There was a shooting recently here in Colorado in a grocery store and not one of them was armed. No way will I be caught like that and with my family.

I am seriously looking at a 22lr target pistol for a carry gun. Insane accuracy and thats what counts, 230 grains doesnt mean anything if it doesnt connect. the people shooting the 22lr target pistols type smily faces dot the eyes, cross the t, cut off the neck and draw hair on their target, try doing that with a 9. If I had that kind of confidence with my pistol id be very pleased.

 

[beekbuster]

Duckshot:

I'll take expert solutions over amateur ones every day of the week.

When I was very ill, I went to an experienced medical specialist. i didn't ask my barber or a random taxi driver for advice.

As to what problem must be solved, I quoted the data above - no need to repeat it. People either correctly perceive there's a very serious issue with school children getting gunned down or they don't. More Americans have been killed by firearms since Bobby Kennedy was killed in a LA hotel than died in combat in every war our nation has fought - from the Revolution to this morning.

Good luck to all,


The Old Bookaroo

can you provide some statistical data to prove this audacious claim? from the data that is readily available on govt websites, and simple math shows you are wrong by a staggering amount. I politely dis agree with your false claim

"These figures refer to all gunfire-related deaths, not just homicides. In fact, homicides represent a minority of gun deaths, with suicides comprising the biggest share. In 2013, according to CDC data, 63 percent of gun-related deaths were from suicides, 33 percent were from homicides, and roughly 1 percent each were from accidents, legal interventions and undetermined causes." excerpt from the article in politifact referencing your claim. they lumped the 250k civil war soldiers that died from disease into the statistic to justify why they lumped the suicides into the statistic...... just my observation/inclination

There are many tools that can be used for good or evil, why people think the object is problem is pure ignorance.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure Hunter:

So your point is there's no point in trying to address a problem?

Just throw up our hands and say there's nothing we can do?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

I am saying the solution is defiantly not restricting my or anyone else's rights. When I went to school almost every truck had a gun in it, you could buy a gun through a magazine, you could walk into a hardware store and walk out with a pistol or rifle with no problems at all. I got a BB gun at 12, my first shotgun at 13, all my friends had guns and there were no school shooting till Charles Whitman in the Texas Bell tower. Guns are not the issue any more than silverware being the issue for obesity.

 

[Garscale]

I am saying the solution is defiantly not restricting my or anyone else's rights. When I went to school almost every truck had a gun in it, you could buy a gun through a magazine, you could walk into a hardware store and walk out with a pistol or rifle with no problems at all. I got a BB gun at 12, my first shotgun at 13, all my friends had guns and there were no school shooting till Charles Whitman in the Texas Bell tower. Guns are not the issue any more than silverware being the issue for obesity.

I covered this several pages back. Icecream scoop violence is rampant.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

beekbuster:

I already did.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Duckshot:

Is the solution to alcoholism more alcohol? Should we eliminate the drinking age? Put saloons in junior and high schools? Open a bar on every corner - available 24/7?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Treasure Hunting:

The first shooting at a school in the US of A was well over 100 years ago. It's hardly a new problem.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[beekbuster]

Do you actually believe if no one had firearms there would be no suicide? My owning a firearm is my right as an American, as a citizen, as a man, my right to defend my family, my home and myself is a God given right, it is not a right granted to me by a government, it is a right I was born with. The 2nd amendment does not give us a right to own a firearm it guarantees that our right can not be infringed on by the government, the 2nd does not restrict us, it restricts the government.

i believe the point he is making is that if someone wants to harm themself in that way there is endless ways to do it, so you say why sort out the suicides from the gun deaths and the obvious answer im sure you know is because the misconception of the statistic, what misconception you say? well im sure you know that answer too. the misconception that you hear 1.5 million gun deaths in the us since 1968 and a person would ass-u-me that means murders, when in fact it is less than a third of that number, which makes the vague claim misleading at best

 

[Duckshot]

Duckshot:

Is the solution to alcoholism more alcohol? Should we eliminate the drinking age? Put saloons in junior and high schools? Open a bar on every corner - available 24/7?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

of course the solution to alcoholism is more alcohol! You know d@mn well it is, what do you live in a Baptist Church?

But, if it is the number of guns that is the problem why not be more diverse and inclusive? Government has lots of guns. All you gotta do is convince government to give up their guns and the war is half over.

 

[Garscale]

Duckshot:

Is the solution to alcoholism more alcohol? Should we eliminate the drinking age? Put saloons in junior and high schools? Open a bar on every corner - available 24/7?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

No but the solution to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

 

[newnan man]

The best way to prevent drunk driving is not allowing anyone to drive. Sound familiar?

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

When I first heard that statistic I found it very hard to believe. Sadly, it's quite true. The numbers are readily available.

United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia

PolitiFact | PBS commentator Mark Shields says more killed by guns since '68 than in all U.S. wars

[Keep in mind Mr. Shields made that statement in 2012 - almost a decade ago.]

So I had good reason to suspect the statement was misleading, and designed to promote a concept that is faulty from the start.

To be clear - some 80 Americans are killed by a firearm every day. Many of them by suicide. Would a waiting period prevent some of those or otherwise change the numbers? I've seen Brian Copeland's powerful one-man play "Waiting Period." I believe it would.

Do you likewise believe waiting periods should be implemented with regards to other rights?

What evidence do you have that demonstrates a good reason for such a belief?

While we're at it can we stop pretending that it is death that is the driving force behind movements to infringe upon the 2nd Amendment?

Offering up the roughly 80 people (daily) who have a desire (for whatever reason) to end their own lives, as an excuse to infringe upon the rights of every law abiding citizen, isn't a legitimate reason. Especially not in a nation that routinely kills some 2,400 - 3,000 completely helpless individuals each day - all while pretending it is a right to do so.

I can't be the only person who finds it ironic that a supposed right is untouchable, but a right specifically spelled out by our supreme law is open to whatever limits some people wish to implement. That irony is driven home by the latter group's use of death as one of their many excuses for infringement.

Seemingly the right to kill the defenseless is absolute, while the right to defend one's self/family is open to governmental approval [or not].

If we're going to operate on the pretense that tools are at fault for the undesirable things that people do with them; then at the very least we should also be extremely lenient in assigning credit to those tools for all the desirable actions that involve them. Think of the lives saved - the mere knowledge that an armed law enforcement officer is on the beat has surely saved many lives. How many families have been spared untold harm, simply because the would-be criminal felt the risk of an armed confrontation was too great to take? How many lives have been saved by armed members of our military, and how many people enjoy a better quality of life simply because armed military members took action that held a positive outcome for those people?

The truth of the matter is that firearms have been used to do good in numbers that make the bad pale in comparison. We mostly hear only about the latter because that serves the purpose of those who wish to have control.

Of course it's illegal to shoot children. No serious person is debating that, so why bring it up? And I would hope no serious person would debate that it's a very serious problem. "Mass shootings" are getting worse in our nation. Personally, I think that's wrong. And I firmly believe it would make a great deal of sense if we did our level best to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Just so I fully understand your position...

In discussing an undesirable act, you believe the legality [or lack thereof] of that act has no role in the discussion?

The act of intentionally killing someone (without cause) is illegal. There are serious legal consequences to such actions, yet those laws are violated each and every time someone shoots another person [without just cause]. The fact that said "shootings" take place is absolute proof that some people simply ignore the law and take action as they so choose. It is incredulous to believe that a waiting period (prior to having the ability to enjoy a right specifically spelled out in our Constitution) will somehow stop the individual who willingly ignores those laws that make killing/harming someone (without just cause) illegal. It isn't just those laws that make killing/harming someone (without just cause) that are violated: oftentimes dozens (or more) of other laws are violated each time someone illegally shoots another.

Nobody thinks mass shootings are acceptable.

Our supreme law (the Constitution) makes it clear that infringing upon the rights of law-abiding citizens isn't acceptable either.

Finding fault with criminal actions is one thing. Promoting policies that infringe upon natural born rights, as a means of dealing with criminal actions, is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The difference being: if the whims of those promoting infringements are realized, the baby will be gone forever but the bathwater won't be going anywhere.

 

[Tpmetal]

releventchair:

Thank you for your warm welcome and kind wishes. Both are appreciated!

There's no reason to "discount" suicides from any posted gun crime statistics. Those poor folks are dead, killed by a firearm. Such weapons are remarkably efficient - they just don't give people a second chance to consider what they have just done.

However, in my first post I did point out that with just about 4% of the world's population, and the preponderance of privately-owned firearms, we have one of the highest murder rates in the world. And the trend is heading in the wrong direction. It's time to do something about it.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

SO what do we do about it then? What do we do about your perceived problem of gun deaths? The places with the most extreme gun control laws have the highest amount of gun crimes and the highest murder rates in the us. Shouldn't those rates be dropping with all these laws, not increasing as they have been?