Do You Believe In Magic?

[Nitric]

This is why I'm finding a hard time sorting things out that i'm just reading on the net. I have a hard enough time reading and remembering, dates, and names. I was all confused searching the net. Still interesting, I'm still very new to this.

I now understand what you are saying.

 

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[Nitric]

Maybe, this has been mentioned. Some of my first thoughts from reading so far. Maybe this was real. The person holding the box, found it and recovered it. Or someone along the way. Then changed the story or altered papers or items to keep it going and maybe to profit,(or a friend profit) from it. Maybe bringing people to a town to look for it, research it,spend money!

That was one of my first thoughts. I try to look at everything from all and any directions. I'm not very far into it, and have all kinds of what ifs. Or maybe completely true, and the treasure is still somewhere!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Maybe, this has been mentioned. Some of my first thoughts from reading so far. Maybe this was real. The person holding the box, found it and recovered it. Or someone along the way. Then changed the story or altered papers or items to keep it going and maybe to profit,(or a friend profit) from it. Maybe bringing people to a town to look for it, research it,spend money!

That was one of my first thoughts. I try to look at everything from all and any directions. I'm not very far into it, and have all kinds of what ifs. Or maybe completely true, and the treasure is still somewhere!

Keep looking... HH! Good Luck! REMEMBER: Beale PAPERS was released to the Lynchburg, Va. GENERAL Public, after copy-right was granted (1885). 1885, TWENTY years after the CONFEDERATE WAR (aka Civil War).
Info on the "Beale Expedition Story" (BES) was given to the "unknown author" by Robert Morriss in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR (1862/1863); C.W. was from 1861-1865. RM died in 1863... Coffee...?

 

[bigscoop]

Maybe, this has been mentioned. Some of my first thoughts from reading so far. Maybe this was real. The person holding the box, found it and recovered it. Or someone along the way. Then changed the story or altered papers or items to keep it going and maybe to profit,(or a friend profit) from it. Maybe bringing people to a town to look for it, research it,spend money!

That was one of my first thoughts. I try to look at everything from all and any directions. I'm not very far into it, and have all kinds of what ifs. Or maybe completely true, and the treasure is still somewhere!

"What if's"....unfortunately that's about all any of us have, some of these even being fairly strong what-ifs, but still just what-ifs all the same. Nothing wrong with conjecture and speculation as its all part of the investigative process, its even desirable and sometimes its even productive. Theories are good. Debates are good, even when they border on close conflict. But it isn't good when folks proceed to make claim of solution and fact when there is none. These claims only clutter the already cluttered field, they mislead people, and they are actually a deterrent to the continued search of truth. So run with those what-ifs and see what's out there. It's all just part of the process.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"What if's"....unfortunately that's about all any of us have, some of these even being fairly strong what-ifs, but still just what-ifs all the same. Nothing wrong with conjecture and speculation as its all part of the investigative process, its even desirable and sometimes its even productive. Theories are good. Debates are good, even when they border on close conflict. But it isn't good when folks proceed to make claim of solution and fact when there is none. These claims only clutter the already cluttered field, they mislead people, and they are actually a deterrent to the continued search of truth. So run with those what-ifs and see what's out there. It's all just part of the process.

A LEARNING Process!

 

[Eldo]

Keep looking... HH! Good Luck! REMEMBER: Beale PAPERS was released to the Lynchburg, Va. GENERAL Public, after copy-right was granted (1885). 1885, TWENTY years after the CONFEDERATE WAR (aka Civil War).
Info on the "Beale Expedition Story" (BES) was given to the "unknown author" by Robert Morriss in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR (1862/1863); C.W. was from 1861-1865. RM died in 1863... Coffee...?

I think that Robert Morriss has the same initials as the person the DOI was delivered to in PA. Every person so far listed has been vetted as not being from the right timeframe in the Beale Papers, even though the author knew about them from the history of the area. The info also looks at times in the Beale to confer that these men were actually speaking about them in the third person, and not from direct interaction, as if they imagined being there themselves at that time.

Maybe Ken Bauman has the similar name to match Robert Morris'? He has some interesting info, and maybe more about the receiver of the box in Philly.

I am guessing this last name is the key to finding the person responsible for the plot.

 

[Nitric]

Keep looking... HH! Good Luck! REMEMBER: Beale PAPERS was released to the Lynchburg, Va. GENERAL Public, after copy-right was granted (1885). 1885, TWENTY years after the CONFEDERATE WAR (aka Civil War).
Info on the "Beale Expedition Story" (BES) was given to the "unknown author" by Robert Morriss in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR (1862/1863); C.W. was from 1861-1865. RM died in 1863... Coffee...?

So, it's a possibility that these were war codes or messages, that were just released to the public 20 years later? when they had no meaning or use at that point. The war was already long over.

 

[bigscoop]

Nitric, there is a lot of good information and trails of possible discovery in these forums, but unfortunately there is also a great deal of magical potions. Just remember, whenever you read something that is claimed to be fact always ask yourself where is that required defining source material to make it so? Nine times out of ten these claimants will not be able to produce those required materials. So just be careful what you choose to believe and what you choose to buy into.

Having said this, it is still possible that the Beale Pamphlet story holds some measure of truth but to date nobody has been able to find it. Perhaps, someday, you will?

 

[Nitric]

Nitric, there is a lot of good information and trails of possible discovery in these forums, but unfortunately there is also a great deal of magical potions. Just remember, whenever you read something that is claimed to be fact always ask yourself where is that required defining source material to make it so? Nine times out of ten these claimants will not be able to produce those required materials. So just be careful what you choose to believe and what you choose to buy into.

Having said this, it is still possible that the Beale Pamphlet story holds some measure of truth but to date nobody has been able to find it. Perhaps, someday, you will?

I question everything, it just gives me ideas of what directions have been gone with this. I started reading threads. So, far I'm confused. lol I don't know enough to even have a real opinion. Just questions, and seeing where everyone's coming from in their ideas. Just find it really interesting, of the possibilities of their link to history maybe! Or? Could just be fiction? I personally don't have an opinion either way yet.

Off work and home for a few days, had my wisdom teeth pulled. I don't know if it's the meds or because they took the teeth. But my wisdom is gone. So, my posts through the whole site are out there at times!

 

[Eldo]

So, it's a possibility that these were war codes or messages, that were just released to the public 20 years later? when they had no meaning or use at that point. The war was already long over.

They were post Civil War KGC troves.....they were dedicated to storing and stashing masses of weapons and gold and coins and plate to make a push to take over the US.

What they were doing was so clandestine, they killed off their labor after mining the areas in AZ

The Papers and letters were given to R Morriss with a ten year delay so no evidence COULD have been derived before they got away with the gold and mines.

 

[bigscoop]

I question everything, it just gives me ideas of what directions have been gone with this. I started reading threads. So, far I'm confused. lol I don't know enough to even have a real opinion. Just questions, and seeing where everyone's coming from in their ideas. Just find it really interesting, of the possibilities of their link to history maybe! Or? Could just be fiction? I personally don't have an opinion either way yet.

The neatest asset in all of this are those things we discover along the way, regardless of weather they are directly connected to the mystery at hand or not. It is, in fact, a never ending adventure within itself.

 

[bigscoop]

They were post Civil War KGC troves.....they were dedicated to storing and stashing masses of weapons and gold and coins and plate to make a push to take over the US.

What they were doing was so clandestine, they killed off their labor after mining the areas in AZ

The Papers and letters were given to R Morriss with a ten year delay so no evidence COULD have been derived before they got away with the gold and mines.

I remember reading about all of this in the "entirely authentic" and "entirely true" Beale Pamphlet story. I just can't find those exact same entries/details again. Hmmmm.. Perhaps you can point me to them?

 

[Eldo]

I remember reading about all of this in the "entirely authentic" and "entirely true" Beale Pamphlet story. I just can't find those exact same entries/details again. Hmmmm.. Perhaps you can point me to them?

Sure just stop berating me with denials, as well as denials made to anyone elses leads.

Once Again.......a 2 year contract leaving in the 3rd month to find the mine and dig for 18 months......

Even if someone throws a hint of a single clue, even if its fitting, you still take the attitude that "There is no evidence"

Nothing but your denials.....

Having trouble compiling it all....?....it is more complex than just claiming that nothing fits to your degree of thinking, and denying the facts here.

You have really good evidence everywhere, and different people who are NOT GOING TO SHOW YOU THEIR FULL DISCOURSE until they are finished, and some may be on the right track

But when you post the same denials ALL THE TIME as if you are holding the solve yourself, and when you act like the person elected to judge the solves here, you come off as an amateur stalwart naysayer,

I have referenced your own theories posted online, and to be honest, your train of thinking is extremely basic, and has not even rationalized the possibility that there is more than just one type of clue left behind?

Where's the rest of your analysis of the wording mistakes?.....you think this one find is something to warrant further thinking?

But perhaps the most damning evidence comes from the author himself in what can only be called, “a literary conflict in detail.” According to our author the three alleged ciphers held no order until he laid them out according to their length and then assigned the numerical numbers 1,2,3 to them in that order. This is how they have come to be identified as cipher 1, cipher 2, and cipher 3, prior to the author’s numbering of the ciphers he claims they had no order at all. Again, this all sounds very reasonable at first glance, however, in reality the author has actually presented his own downfall by offering these details

sometimes when there is only a few pieces of the puzzle missing, you HAVE TO LOOK AROUND FOR MORE CLUES...

..and learn from previous research to take their ideas with a grain of deductive salt

 

[bigscoop]

Eldo, at the rate you're rewriting the story there isn't going to be a single authentic or true statement remaining in this otherwise original and entirely authentic and true text, as you claim.



Perhaps you can reference another entirely authentic and true text that contains a host of errors, countless intended deceptions, a bundle of hidden clues, an assortment of lies, and an otherwise vast majority of false and incorrect and intentionally misleading statements? This is, in fact, what you continue to propose as you continue to spew out all of your proclaimed theories to be facts. Do you really not understand this fact even as you continue to produce it?


You have, in effect, managed to entirely shred that only source material that offers any hope of holding any measure of truth or “authenticity” in the entire mystery. You have, in effect, completely obliterated that very source material you claim to be genuine, authentic, and narrating a truth. It is the very source material to the mystery at hand and you have proceeded to completely destroy just about every “genuine” and “authentic” and “true” statement in it. But most of all, you have managed to completely annihilate the very theory you propose as you continue to cut out the very heart and soul that offered your theory it's first breath of life. Do you really not understand this fact even as you continue to manufacture it?


At some extremely close moment, my friend, that heart is going to cease to beat at all. And then what? Where does that leave your rapidly dying theory? You can't prove the original source to hold a measure of truth by continuing to shred all of its “genuine” and “authentic” and “true” statements. Do you get it yet?

"Theories and suspected clues do not make fact" as you continue to claim and insist that they do. I have no problem with theories, proposals, etc., all of this just being a typical part of the process, but I do have a problem when these common theories and proposals are proclaimed to be fact without any means whatsoever of establishing those claimed facts. So again, can you or can you not produce a single piece of directly implicating documentation that directly references the Beale papers or as being a part of your grand conspiracy? Surely you must have this required source in order to make all your claims as fact?

 

[Eldo]

Eldo, at the rate you're rewriting the story there isn't going to be a single authentic or true statement remaining in this otherwise original and entirely authentic and true text, as you claim.

When did I ever claim the story to be authentic......get real....you cant put words in another's mouth....

Go ahead and quote me......you have been asked to prove where I have said that I believe this to be authentic

I have clearly said otherwise numerous times that it was written by a master confederate forger....

You are not my friend, and your attempt to friend me is to make me look like a pawn to your theory...stop addressing me as if we know eachother

THE END


Later

 

[bigscoop]

When did I ever claim the story to be authentic......get real....you cant put words in another's mouth....

Go ahead and quote me......you have been asked to prove where I have said that I believe this to be authentic

I have clearly said otherwise numerous times that it was written by a master confederate forger....

So, what you're saying now about the very heart and soul that gives your theory life and you have built your conspiracy theory around is, "the Beale story isn't authentic or true as presented, except for those many deceptive details I alone insist to be intentionally misleading but otherwise true once you know all of the grand secrets? And, no, I don't have any directly implicating facts to present you other then the fact that I say this is all fact." You can't have it both ways at your purely selective convenience while still at a complete absence to be able to establish your "theory" to be fact, Mr. Eldo. You're selling your theory to be fact, so yes, it is incumbent upon you to produce the materials that establish this proclaimed fact. Or, is it just another theory? You just don't get it at all, do you, the difference between fact and theory?

 

[bigscoop]

Eldo, let me tell what I do find so exciting about your theory, this perhaps, even surprising you. I find it extremely exciting that you have discovered documentation that will finally end the long standing debate over the authenticity of the Peralta Stones. I find it exciting to know that in the close future you will reveal that conclusive and defining documentation that directly authenticates these stones as being genuine and not the mere creation of a hoaxter, as many of today's leading scholars believe, as do many of the holders, historians, and curators of the present museum where the stones are being kept. Finally someone, you, is going to present them with that undeniable fact of authenticity to once and for all establish, without doubt, that those stones are, in fact, the real deal. And we know you have this defining piece of required documentation or you wouldn't otherwise be able to claim your theory to be fact. So see, I do find some excitement in your theory. Now the question is simply this, when do we get to see it? Is it in the form of an old confession written the by the priest who actually carved those stones? That would be exciting, for sure. Or, was this same type of old documentation discovered in an old collection of Peralta family papers? The discovery of that resource would be exciting as well. Or, have you, on your own, financed a complete chemical and carbon dating investigation on those stones, and all of the other required test that could, perhaps, validate that stone's authenticity? Doesn't matter as any one of them will be just as exciting as the other. Can't wait to see whatever it is that must have. You do have such a confirming piece of directly implicating, conclusive, and documented evidence, yes?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The RM in Phil. had nothing to do with the Beale Treasure.

AGREE!

 

[Eldo]

AGREE!

Oh?

there must be someone with those initials if "he had nothing to do with it"

 

[Eldo]

Eldo, let me tell what I do find so exciting about your theory, this perhaps, even surprising you. I find it extremely exciting that you have discovered documentation that will finally end the long standing debate over the authenticity of the Peralta Stones..............................................

You do have such a confirming piece of directly implicating, conclusive, and documented evidence, yes?

You're debating it right now......