Re: discussion on the various possible theories that may be applicable to LrL's
EE THr said:
J__P said:
aarthrj3811 said:
Sorry JP…I hope you can come up with a theory that makes sense. They work for thousands of the owner /operators so that part is right. ..Art
Hi aarthrj3811,
So far you haven't replied to the questions I asked.
Shall I take this to mean you have no theory to offer, and you have no interest in contributing data that Mr. Don requested?
Or am I wrong about that?
Best wishes,
J_P
JP---
Good point about not insulting people.
Let's see what artie suggests....
Hi EE THr,
Thank you for your patience to see what Artie had to suggest.
At the moment it appears aarthrj3811 has decided to leave the discussion without describing results from stroking a book cover that Mr. Don requested.
In the mean time, I havent seen any new information from Mr. Don recently about his mysterious sticky finger force that may be applicable to LRLs.
So I could take a side trip while we wait for an update from Mr. Don, to revisit something we looked at previously, but didn't cover completely.
Feel free to skip past this if you are not in the mood for reading a long technical post.
I was reading a previous post by Rudy which I never fully answered, and could have some interesting implications in our quest for a theory that could be applicable to LRLs.
If you recall, Rudy made a post about Mineoro locators which included this passage:
Rudy(CA) said:
...I think we can agree that the device could not directly detect a gold ion as the ions would not be floating in air and certainly not at a distance
that would qualify the device as an LRL. Therefore, if anything, what it would have to detect (with some kind of directionality) is some kind
of electromagnetic wave that is characteristic of the desired metal (e.g. gold).
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An aside on your allusion to a carbon arc lamp:
Unless the machine is supposed to work only during a thunderstorm, where does the energy needed to create the plasma come from?
Carbon arc lamp like energies are not common events outside of such storms. Besides, the ions created by such an event would have
relatively short life times before becoming neutral again. So, if you wait for the thunderstorm to pass by, by the time you get there all
the ions would be gone.
_________________________________
Now, if we go micro scale, the shedding or replacing of an electron in a gold atom. The energy required or given up in the process is the Work function and for gold it is 5 eV or about 8X10^-19 Joules of energy.
Using the well known formula E= hc/λ and solving for λ we get λ=hc/E which gives us a photon wavelength of 0.248 µm. The frequency
is, of course, the reciprocal of the wavelength and it is around 4 MHz. This is nowhere in the pico/femto/atto range claimed. Of course, it is not necessarily a steady stream of photons since only one photon is emitted (or absorbed) for each atom's transition. A transition in one direction emits a photon while a transition in the other direction absorbs it.
Ok, so to use a Mineoro type long range locator, we need to detect photons which are absorbed or emitted by gold ions.
As Rudy detailed, these ions do not exist in the air.
But we know they can exist in the ground above where gold metal has been buried for a long time.
How long?
It depends on how long it takes for bacteria which secrete cyanide that can dissolve gold to arrive and to grow to a colony around the gold nugget. Then it would take more time to corrode some gold atoms on the surface which become dissolved into the soil and move out away from the nugget. Then moving forward in time, the traces of dissolved gold move upward from the nugget, and gradually toward the surface of the soil, due to capillary action of the rain cycles. After many thousands of years, a trail of gold ions in the soil has reached an equilibrium where a fairly well defined column of these ions are concentrated. Scientists have measured the concentration of ions in typical columns like this one, which are measured to be in a range from 0.1 to 3 parts per trillion gold ions. Let's say that this particular gold nugget has an ion concentration in the soil above it of 1 ppt of gold ions. For younger buried gold, the concentration can be less. But by chance, it could be as strong or stronger, depending on the bacteria present and other chemicals in the soil.
While this is a hypothetical nugget, it is a very common condition that exists all over the world where there is buried gold. We are looking at a common condition that does not seem to make sense to people who believe gold is inert. But then, what people believe is not always the same as what is real. So we can use the data that was provided by scientists who measure these dissolved gold ions in the ground to help determine how they may be applicable to LRLs.
Now, let us suppose this gold nugget I described is buried a couple of feet under the surface, and has sent gold ions drifting up above it in the dirt. If we figure where these ions are, they could be concentrated in a cylindrical chunk of dirt above the nugget that measures 40 cm tall by maybe 10 cm diameter. This may not be exact, but it is close enough to give us something to count. We can calculate how many gold ions are in this column if we know they are concentrated at 1 ppt. Of course, this column and the amount of gold ions are an average expected, because the cylinder boundaries and concentrations are not exact. But we will be within the reasonable order of magnitude to figure out how it applies to long range detection.
Ok, for the math... 40 cm x 10 cm diameter dirt = 3.142 liters.
If the dirt weighed about 1.6 kg/liter, the cylinder of dirt with the ions would weigh about 5 kg, or 11 pounds.
Since we figured these gold ions at 1 ppt, we expect there are 0.005 mg of gold ions in this cylinder area of dirt.
Converting to how many gold ions it takes to weigh 0.005 mg,
(0.005 mg) x 1/1000 x (1 mole/196.9665 gm) x (6.022 x 1023 ions/mole) = 1.53 x 1016 ions
This is about 15 billion trillions of gold ions in that cylinder of dirt above the buried gold nugget.
Amazing... that many ions could be found in a shovel full of dirt above a nugget. This is at a trace concentration of only 1 part per trillion, but this is what has been typically found above buried gold.
So here we have a gold nugget buried a couple of feet deep that has billions of trillions of gold ions suspended in a column of soil above it.
Let's take a look at what scientists have told us about these ions.
They migrate upward in the soil very slowly during the rain cycles which draw them up due to capillary action of the soil drying in between cycles. But by the time they reach the last 10-30 cm of the surface, the ions neutralize. This means they combine with constituents of the soil to become neutral molecules. In the case of gold, it nearly always combines with itself to become a gold particle. This particle can easily attach to a larger gold particle which has the traditional metal lattice structure found in gold. The gold lattice may be in a tiny gold particle that we call micro gold, or it could be a larger chunk of gold we can see as another nugget near the surface. Or it could even attach to another piece of metal in some cases.
Now, let's take another look at the zone where these gold ions are becoming neutralized. Scientists have measured them neutralizing at a depth between 10 and 30 cm (4-12 inches) below the surface of the ground. Let us suppose only one in a million of the gold ions from this nugget have arrived at this zone where they can neutralize for a final time. We expect more than one in a million of the ions to be in this zone -- more like one in 20 or so. But let us take a conservative estimate to allow a possibility that the zone of neutralizing might be a very thin slice of dirt where only a tiny amount of ions are actually able to neutralize. Of these one in a million ions in the zone where they are found to neutralize, let's suppose only 1% of these are actually ready to neutralize soon, and are only waiting for a good reason to do so, such as an electrical shock could push them to finally break loose from a cyanide and combine with another gold ion. This 1% of one in a million ions comes to a total of 150 trillion ions ready to neutralize. And this does not count any of the other ions that are freely moving about below these ones.
Here we have a small chunk of soil above a buried nugget with 150 trillion gold ions theoretically ready to neutralize by a conservative estimate of what has been measured in typical soil above buried gold.
Now, suppose some geophysical event occurs, such as a minor seismic tremor which sends out short piezoelectric jolts of voltage through the ground. Is it possible this same electrical event could cause a good number of these 150 trillion of gold ions to make their final neutralization?
If this could happen, then we are no longer talking about a random occurance of gold ions becoming microgold at an infinitessimal rate that nobody can measure. We are now talking about a more sizeable event where a lot of ions are converting to molecules all at the same time. Are we coming closer to enough current flowing over a short duration to cause a measurable electric signal?
Let's take the concept a little farther...
There are other events that could also concievably cause a large number of ions to neutralize all at the same time. For example, thunderstorms, even when in the distance will send electrical currents through the ground which could influence chemical actions in the soil. And what about solar events? Don't they come in waves that drive the telluric currents under the ground, and even magnetic storms which are strong enough to upset radio reception? Could these natural forces be influencing this small chunk of dirt with trillions of gold ions to send a signal of some sort? At the moment, I am thinking of some sudden geophysical events that would cause a short duration increase in slow-moving, but sizable geophysical energy flows, such as telluric currents. If a telluric current was helping some gold ions to neutralize at a steady rate, could a seismic event cause a sudden jolt in the conversion of ions to neutral molecules?
Somehow, it seems to me there is some room for some unusual chemical anomalies and electrical anomalies in places where gold is buried for a long time.
If what I am wondering turns out to be true, how does this connect to Mineoro's theory that may be applicable to LRLs?
From what I have read of the Mineoro propaganda, I don't see any way it can explain a mass ion neutralization by the principles they claim. We see they already removed their theory information that I retrieved from an archive of their old pages. If we suppose they published erroneous theory information, then some possibilities may open. If we abandon the old Mineoro theory of detecting femto-second signals from single gold ions floating in the air, we can look at what we know is true about gold ions... that they do move upward in the soil and they neutralize before they reach the surface. If it is possible a large amount of these ions could be neutralizing over a very short time interval, we may be able to see a detectable pulse of energy. There also appears to be some room for a theory of a frequency interaction, although it doesn't seem likely to be the kind that has been suggested so far.
I offer this line of thought in answer to Rudy's comments, and for anyone else who might be interested while we wait to see what develops with Mr. Don's sticky finger theory, and any people who have data to report from book-stroking experiments.
Best wishes,
J_P
