Death Traps??

[Barton]

Hello miboje,

Just curious--do you, Honest Samuel, elh, or davin believe that a trap built 200--500 years ago will still function?

 

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[Barton]

Hello Blak bart,

I like your fishing boat--but seriously--who would believe you?
No one here would believe a fish story like that?

Without a picture--most people would believe it is simply a tall tail.

Personally I would believe a fish story--if you told me you caught a big fish --
--even with out the photo.

Possibly I am " A mental patients dream world of raiders of the lost arc"--as Jacon and Civil war say--
or I am simply a gullible person whom believes in fish stories, or some of the stories
I am told around a campfire.

( Blak bart--I used to work commercial fishing--before I left to make the big
bucks--taking a job making $ 200 a month--so I believe alot of fish stories having seen
the catches fishermen make ).

Everything else aside--I like the boat and that is a very nice looking fish.
When I was out in the Florida Keys I went fishing and had a great time.
It had the most clear water--I had ever seen--you could see a very long ways
while scuba diving under the water --and in addition I was not freezing like
in the colder waters of Long Island or off Ketchan, Alaska

 

[Blak bart]

Hey barton we have an incredible 80 feet of visabilty today. Thats underwater. Yes I have a lot of fish stories.i dont tell them to much unless I have the pics. for proof.otherwise they are like you say just " tall tails".any way check out "the florida keys a history of the pioneers " by john viele. Published by pineapple press. It tells the story of happy jack his gold and the spring gun traps. I really would like to find one of these old spring gun traps.of coarse they would no longer work so I dont worry about tripping one.sure would be cool to find an old musket set up in tree or somthing. My signature pic is of an 80 pound wahoo we caught this spring in elutherea bahamas. not a monster but respectable.

 

[MiddenMonster]

"How do you pop open a 40,000 pound stone door? VERY CAREFULLY

" I seriously doubt that a booby trap designed to trip when something is opened is going to also stay viable for 500+ years"---ARE YOU WILLING TO BET YOUR LIFE ON IT? ONCE YOU PLACE THE BET AND ATTEMPT TO ENTER A STONE DOOR---YOU ARE BETTING YOUR LIFE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!

Actually, I would bet my life on it. My concern would be a 10'x10'x2', 40,000lb. door falling on me, not a death trap going off. And as such, I would plan to be at least 20' away and off to the side as I USED A CHAIN TO SIMPLY PULL THE DOOR OVER. Let's be serious here. Even assuming a door like that is set up with a several hundred year old, still functioning death trap, the people who put it there would need a large group of people to a) open it, and b) at least one more to disarm the death trap. All with the materials and equipment available at the time. It's the same thing if I were exploring an old gold mine. I'd be less worried about the Wile E. Coyote trap set up by the crazy old prospector than I am of a mine collapse that could occur because the mine is so old.

As stated above--in the book TRACKING WITH ANGELS--the traps do in fact exist--and are fully functional--and I used several of them as illustrations in the book--I even
showed the "trigger" --or one of the two triggers--on one of the traps--unless gravity no longer works--every trap I illustrated is fully operational.

So post a picture of one here so we can see what you are talking about. It's the fact that gravity works that undermines the idea of death traps lasting 500 years and still working. Where in the United States is it geologically, biologically and climatologically stable enough for a primitive mechanical device to survive the elements and still remain functional? Florida--the land of endless sinkholes, swamps and tree roots? Colorado--the land of rock slides? Louisiana--the land of swamps, tree roots and flooding? Tree roots destroy rocks as they grow. Snow and ice destroy rocks as they freeze, melt and freeze again. Moisture rots all wood. Rain and wind cause erosion one day, and soil and debris to accumulate the next. People sometimes have to dig down several feet to find artifacts that are 150 years old. Extrapolate that out to 500 years and these death traps could easily be covered by 10'-15' of soil and rocks, and have trees with 24" trunks growing over them. So where in the United States is it stable enough for a death trap to stay intact for this long?

 

[Oddjob]

Watching Goonies again I see.

 

[nmth]

I just love the Indiana Jones type stories. Vertical jumps of Olympic type feats and large crocodiles, huge pythons, and the massive man eating turtles are a sure sign you're on the right spot. A mental patients dream world of raiders of the lost arc

Not sure about the rest, but I've had a "vertical jump" episode that saved me from serious injury.

Was banging out a bunch of fluorite, quartz, galena, barite, etc. beautiful stuff deep underground in the pitch black. Someone else had worked my hole in an unsafe way, so I was sitting on the rim instead of being laid flat working up inside the best part of the pocket. Solution cavity gypsum "snow" was all around the beautiful vugs, which was part of the weak structure.

I was sitting cross-legged, banging away on the gad, peering down and under into the vugs with my LED headlamp, when I heard what sounded like ice cracking (I will never forget the actual sound!) Without thought, I instantly sprang up and out of the hole below the column I was working around, probably about 4-5'. It was like my ears had direct command of my legs. I did not have time to think at all. As I cleared the hole, the column collapsed with a whoosh, a great whumph of dust, and filled not only the hole I was in, but also the area where someone else had previously been working all laid out flat. Had I been slower, I'd have been injured. Had I been the idiot who undercut the area by laying flat to get way back in there, then I might have been dead.

Not exactly a lifting the pickup truck off of someone thing, but definitely a "lizard brain" safety mechanism kicked in and kept me safe somehow.

Speaking of, snakes can make you move fast, too...

 

[Barton]

Hello Blak bart,

That is a very nice Wahoo--and 80 pounds is a fish you can be very proud of catching. I would love to go fishing with you if I ever go to the Florida keys again.
I'll even buy the gas. I remember my brother Rolland caught a fish --the head of the fish was about the size of your fish's head--but my brothers fish while the head was the size of your fishes head it did not have a body or tail! It would look almost identical to your fish if you cut your fishes head off--and removed the rest of the fish.

Now is that a tail only a fisherman can tell ? As my brother was reeling in his fish--another fish hit his fish leaving him only the head of the fish on his fishing line!

Barton

 

[Barton]

Some people speak like experts--about topics they have no knowledge or understanding of.

As I recall several years past--when Amazon used to post beside each book --the number of books sold--
Over ten thousand people had sufficient interest interest to learn how to enter a stone door--that they
purchased Charles Kenworthy's book Death Traps to Treasure--why are so many people so lazy if you want to
understand about the traps? Personally I enjoyed the book so much that I wrote the review on Amazon years ago.

Certainly it is easy enough to track the ancient trails--and if one does so--( it can be in Texas, NM, Colorado, Utah
Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Washington --just to mention some of the places I have seen and tracked the trails )
one can see the cache sites as well as the traps. So these mythical places I speak of--and these mythical stone
markers can be found here as well as in other countries.

Possibly when you track the old trails you may see giant Birds, turtles, hearts, knives, diamonds, rabbits and faces.
Once I say a woman carrying a water jug--wearing a diamond earing, over 50 feet tall. I even saw a mythical
"thunderbird" with a wing span of over 600 feet!

Yet if you do not believe me about the traps and the underground tunnels there is no reason anyone would believe me
about the giant hearts, giant snakes, giant hammers and knives, eagles, turtles and ancient trails.

Barton

 

[Barton]

nmth, post 46

Once I was walking in the Southwest--not paying any attention as I walked--I was walking forward but looking to the left through binoculars--across the canyon
( It is very foolish and it can be dangerous--not looking where you are walking )
As I was looking left--suddenly I jumped--straight up in the air 3 feet and came down.
I was frozen in place as I landed--dropping the binoculars--I was wondering what happened
and started looking around---directly in front of me--four feet away was a coiled rattlesnake
ready to strike had I taken one more step I would have been in easy striking distance of him!
Barton

 

[smokeythecat]

Death traps set up the last few years.....possible. Death traps set up hundreds of years ago have probably have lost their "zing". Earthquakes move things, flash floods too, Ropes rot. Steel rusts. Leather and cloth mold and fall apart. Poisons lose their zip. Radiation goes on and on and on. All that good stuff.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Certainly it is easy enough to track the ancient trails--and if one does so--( it can be in Texas, NM, Colorado, Utah
Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Washington --just to mention some of the places I have seen and tracked the trails )
one can see the cache sites as well as the traps. So these mythical places I speak of--and these mythical stone
markers can be found here as well as in other countries.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...no one is disputing that the Spanish and countless others set death traps to protect things believed to be valuable. That's just a red herring. Where people are skeptical is the part about these traps still being functional. Post a few pictures and diagram the hammers, anvils and trip mechanisms. Let's see exactly what you are talking about. @Smokeythecat is echoing exactly what I am saying--that traps of any kind are not likely to survive several centuries of time and the natural phenomenon that are working against them from the moment they are set. My guess is that if you do post pictures we are going to see piles of rocks, precariously perched that will either be natural formations, man made structures built to shore up existing hazards, man made structures that may or may not have been intended as death traps and are almost completely buried in dirt and other debris and no longer functional, or death traps that were created fairly recently. I've looked at Google image searches for "death traps" (some posted to Treasurenet), and while some may have at one time been death traps, none are functional and the majority of them don't appear to be anything more than a pile of rocks that have become hazardous due to the passage of time. And none of them looked like they were hiding anything. It would be like me seeing a large pile of dirt and declaring it to be an "Indian mound", simply because it is a pile of dirt and Indians lived in what is now the United States.

 

[Barton]

smokeythe cat,

The King of Spain, Don Carlos for example, required all his trail markers to be permanent--that is one reason why it is so easy to track the ancient trails,
lets just say "The Spanish Trail" , for example. The traps are permanent too--some of the more dangerous traps will even reset them selves--after killing
the intruders whom enter a place they are not supposed to be, or take / pick up the decoys.

Let me give you a symplistic example of one trap I was told about--the people whom set these traps really understand human nature / responses.
This very simple trap--was down there in Silver City , NM Inside this mine tunnel was an alter, on the alter by a wooden cross in a leather poke
was about a dozen very old spanish coins.

The man left the wooden cross--he dumped the gold coins into his hands--then put the coins and the leather poke in his pocket. All week he handled the coins--handling them
pulling them out of his pocked and looking at them--when he changed paints--he transferred the treasure to his new pants--to keep his treasure
under his watchful care.

He was in his doctors office--sick as a dog--several days later--arsenic poisoning--the poke and his coins were covered in arsenic!
Then the traps hit you--they are meant to come out of no where and take you totally by surprise!

In the example--I spoke of--the man covered in blood--what I call a fast moving surface slider--attacked him from 200--300 feet away!
( I show a picture of a surface slider in my book for example--but most are much more difficult to see )
Never did he think a surface slider --even existed, much less he would come under attack, from a distant rock--traveling 30 MPH--with
five tons of 100-200 pound boulders right behind it! When you start / he started-- this race--for your life--he was down in a hole 6 feet deep--
when he heard the roar of the rocks slide coming!

Barton

 

[MiddenMonster]

The man left the wooden cross--he dumped the gold coins into his hands--then put the coins and the leather poke in his pocket. All week he handled the coins--handling them
pulling them out of his pocked and looking at them--when he changed paints--he transferred the treasure to his new pants--to keep his treasure
under his watchful care.

He was in his doctors office--sick as a dog--several days later--arsenic poisoning--the poke and his coins were covered in arsenic!

Oh, for crying out loud! Are you serious That wasn't a death trap. Arsenic is produced when gold is smelted, and it's also common to find it in gold mines and where gold is present! And because it is a naturally occurring element it is also found in trace amounts in metal water lines. Let's see...altar, wooden cross, gold coins. Gee...is this a death trap or is it an offering left by a Christian from days gone by? Hmmm...how can we solve this enigma?

 

[goldenrecoveries]

Somebody is tryin to sell his book? Right Barton? I mean it looks like EVERY post you make includes, "In my book"

ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Tom_in_CA]

How was that helpful? If you don't actually know anything about what a person is asking for help with, then why reply?

It was very helpful. Because it sought to shed light on the mistaken notion (perhaps born out of watching too many raiders of the lost Ark re-runs?) that "death traps await anyone seeking treasure".

When someone way-back-when went to bury a cache, why can't they just have buried it, period ? History is FILLED with guys who found caches (whether on accident, or purposefully md'ing or TH'ing), and ..... there was no "death trap". So barring a few hollywood movies, can anyone point to "death traps" in the first place ?

I'm sure perhaps there was maybe some fluke someone can point to historically, but ... I highly doubt it's something to fret about as "imminent". Hence his comment was highly helpful.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You never read the newspapers?

elh, can you please link us with any "newspaper story" about someone being hurt or killed by a "death trap" set up to protect a treasure ? I have a hunch you can't. Hence what's the point of your question ?

And to draw in booby-traps set out during war (the post about caves , during WWII, by the Japanese, etc...), have absolutely nothing to do with this post. Those were NOT set there to "protect a treasure". They were akin to land mines, to simply hurt the enemy in a war. So what the heck does that have to do with md'ing and caches ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Your reply would be correct if the OP asked if death traps were legitimate or fictional, but is that what the OP asked?

Ah true. But the NATURE of the question PRE-SUPPOSES that "death traps" exist. So it was a very appropriate answer.

An example: If this were an auto-buff forum, and someone asked "what do you all think of the live camels that Ford is installing in the trunks of their cars nowadays?". If someone else came on and said "what camels? There is no camels". Then you could object and say that the person never asked "is there camels in trunks?".

Yet for the question to EVEN BE ASKED, it pre-supposes a fact that isn't true.

Hence yes: to question the implied/implicit premise of question is very much a part of communication on forums.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That entire show was scripted un-reality TV garbage. Nothing about it was real.....

What ? SAY IT ISN'T SO! haha. You're right: it's sensationalism that sells. And a lot of the "lost history" hollywood type treasure hunter stuff has silly conjectures thrown in that, sure make a good sale and are fun to watch. But the minute we go to put full-proof stick into every Hollywood reality show documentary thing, is the moment we are going to have to also believe in bigfoot, UFO's, various conspiracies, etc.... Those shows always have some fancied factoid they can point to, that ..... when/if worded in a certain way, w/o a skeptical viewing, can seem to made to point anywhere the TV show wishes to lead the viewer.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....

Typically a Spanish Treasure site will never have less than 12 Spanish Death Traps.

I have talked to two men who have been on the receiving end of the Spanish Death Traps--
.....

Another time I was told of a man who left a Spanish Treasure site-.....

Barton, certainly if these "traps" are as imminent and numerous as you say, then you have links? Like to showing one in-situ. Or a news link to "someone killed by a Spanish death trap " etc....?

Because when it comes time to back up your assertions, it's things like "I talked to 2 men who said..... ", and "I was told of a man who....".

Well, gee, not to be a killjoy, but so too is that sort of proof rendered when someone wishes to bolster the reality of UFO's and Bigfoot, etc.... It's along the same lines of "I talked to a witness, who's uncle john saw a flying saucer 10 yrs. ago", etc..... Or "so & so disappeared w/o a trace, and his widow suspects a flying saucer took him", etc... As titillating as such "he said she said" things are, yet they do not constitute "proof".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... They had seen the campfire and came over and joined me.

As trackers and prospectors do--they told stories about prospecting and tracking. That night around the campfire I heard stories
about three stone doors. ....

How can anyone doubt "campfire stories" afterall ?