Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powells reply

[MKnTenn]

Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

I just got this buckle today in the mail. I've seen one before but I can't seem to remember where. Please let me know if you can date it, it was dug at a site had pre Civil War, Civil War, and WW1 relics in it. It's solid cast brass. Thanks and HH - UPDATE - I got a reply from Mr. Powell --

All I can tell you is that it is a Spanish naval officer's dirk or
ceremonial waist belt buckle of the Napoleonic period (ca. 1800-1815). I
have seen a few variations of this, but they are all very similar and yours
is about the best one I've seen. The wreath or collar surrounding your
anchored tongue is normally plain on the ones I've seen; yours has four
raised bars on it, which differentiates it from the others I've encountered.
Unfortunately, the Spanish haven't done the kinds of in-depth material
culture related research that we Americans and other nations have done over
the years, and so information about these items is very difficult to obtain.

I appreciate all the help but in the end it's a "date unknown".
I bought this buckle to resale, it sold on Ebay for 126.00.
That's for anyone that wants to know what one sold for, to put in their records.
Thanks again and HH

 

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[kuger]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

...very well said as usual CC!!!

 

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[CRUSADER]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

The complete tongue and matching wreath for this small cast anchor Tongue & Wreath buckle is a rare item indeed. Over the years I have seen photos of several of those buckle tongues, yet never the wreaths. I'm not quite certain where the provenance for attributing these to Spanish origin nor early nineteenth century is well founded, nor even as a buckle from a naval dirk belt. In the mid-nineteenth century, Tongue & Wreath buckles of every size, shape, and description, were all the rage. Several years ago I began collecting Daguerreotype and Ambrotype images of women and children wearing belts with two-piece Tongue & Wreath buckles. The variety is almost endless for this fashion fad.

From my recollection, there was a tongue found in Pensacola Florida, one in San Francisco, another in the central USA, and a few more in random areas. The one from San Francisco was I believe in a photo of mostly Turn-of-the Century items (the 1899-1900 turn, rather than the century before....... ). In fact, not one single buckle tongue I have seen, was shown to be in context with early 1800's artifacts. Through our network, Kuger and myself have had the opportunity to see literally thousands of military and civilian two-piece buckles, dating from the 1840's on through the post-Civil War era. That small cast anchor has been absent from even some of the most extensive collections.

This particular style of small cast brass anchor buckle, appears to be very well made, unlike many of the earlier styles of cast buckles we see. My impression of this buckle is likely later Victorian era, based on recovered examples as well as construction details. 1880's could be a probable era. However, we could in fact toss a couple decades either way at this point, and possibly not be far off mark either. Since the style and design is not a very close match to any known American made two-piece buckles of the era, a foreign heritage is certainly a valid option. Considering that ships of nearly every nation on Earth, both military and civilian, have frequently docked at our ports since the founding of our country, lends a broader scope of potential heritage for this little mystery buckle. 8)

CC Hunter

Even with my little buckle knowledge I would have placed it as late 19th C fashion/civilian, so all makes sense to me

 

[dsinsc]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

I have to add my 2 cents on this one and agree with the late 1800's early 1900's date for these buckles. I dug the wreath (life preserver) half to one and this nickle plated stamped brass buckle from the same site in CT. The place they came from was a summer resort that was in use from 1910-1950 so even 1880 seems early to me since it would have been at least 30 years old when lost.

 

[kuger]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

Is this you

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dug-2-Piece...149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfcaea3e5

 

[CC Hunter]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

Your "2 cents is greatly appreciated DSinSC. That right there is exactly the substantiating site context information that adds precedence to dating finds!

CC Hunter

 

[hogge]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

Here are the close ups of the 1 my uncle found. He found it in Mass. Dates to 1800-1820. (John Powell). At the time, it was the only known COMPLETE example. Yours is obviously, the second. Although, it could have been dug before and not recorded. I think you got an excellent price. Would be nice if you knew where it was found, as only the tongues were known to exist, and they were found in the southern states mentioned. Spanish Navy, CEREMONIAL or DRESS, dirk or dagger buckle.

 

[lost hunter]

Re: Date this 2 piece Navy buckle - UPDATE- John Powell's reply

 

[firemedic]

Yesterday while hunting beside a small lake where a small "country club" building once stood, I found this exact same piece (the side with the life preserver). I ran across this post while doing a google image search. It seems odd that this would be a Spanish naval belt buckle due to the location of my find. The town was founded in 1888 and the lake and club house were built in the 1890s. I thought maybe it was part of a belt for swimwear such as was worn around the 1900s. I'm interested to know if any further research has been done.

I should add that this was in Northcentral Missouri and the item was dug about 50 feet from the waters edge on the site of an old clubhouse built by the railroad for employees next to a manmade lake as a water source for steam engines. The buckle was about 8" deep and was found with a Garrett ACE 350.

 

[firemedic]

Here is a pic