Dandy? Unidentified Item, button...1683 Property--Massachusetts

[btjbtj]

Good day, everyone!

I've attached photos of yesterday's findings. Perhaps a dandy flat button with a neat starburst design. Another button. A large piece of pewter. And a piece of something...brass? Around 1.5" long. I also posted this last item on the "What Is It" forum so we can hopefully learn more. Note the hole that was forged through it. Thanks for your thoughts! Happy digging, all. ~Lisa & John

 

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[CASPER-2]

...you should listen to me ...cause I'm from Ma. and their not ...

 

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[CRUSADER]

Even though everyone on TNet calls them "dandy" buttons, they are actually macaroni buttons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaroni_(fashion)

"Dandy" is a totally different thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy

I just threw that out there to confuse everyone with some truth.

Your fragment is probably from a shoe buckle.

Totally disagree. Dandy Button is a commonly held term for these. Not technically correct, but nor is macaroni. In fact, they are one of the same.

If you want an Archaeological term, you would just call them large 'copper-alloy flat buttons'. Mostly plated in some way, but the base metal (at least 99% of them) is copper-alloy.

I use 'Dandy Button' because they are published as dating from 1750-80, where as a 'large copper-alloy flat button' could date from any period. So Dandy Button narrows down the margin of error.

 

[CRUSADER]

Image of 'Steel Buttons, Coup de Bouton', 1777. Artist: Unknown from Heritage Images
The above is one of my favourite contemporary sources of the Dandy Fashion Buttons. I like this cartoon of the time because it reflects on the social aspect of these crazy big buttons. That the Men used them to attract the Ladies, but they were so shinny that they blinded them. Followers of fashion.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Hello John and Lisa,

Seem you have a very interesting site, take your time, go low and slow and dig everything.

Regards,

Doc

 

[btjbtj]

Abe--excellent deducing! That could well be right. Well, it's the most ornate buckle piece we've found yet, so we'll take it! Thanks for posting. -L&J

Lisa I believe your mystery piece is the broken frame of a small shoe buvkle from the 18th century. It has the correct shape and the hole would have held a pin that contained the chape, tongue and spike. These were what made the connection. Old shoelace of sorts

 

[btjbtj]

Thanks, Doc! Will do. -L&J
QUOTE=Professor of Engineering;5117683]Hello John and Lisa,

Seem you have a very interesting site, take your time, go low and slow and dig everything.

Regards,

Doc[/QUOTE]

 

[btjbtj]

Luv it, Casper, thanks! -L&D

View attachment 1357588...you should listen to me ...cause I'm from Ma. and their not ...

 

[btjbtj]

Scrappy, feel better soon. Try a teaspoon of honey to soothe your throat. Honey also has antibacterial properties. -L

While I love to disagree with Mr. French fries and gravy, but that's what I would have done. And by quiet I mean no iron... no nothing. I have a 5 acre spot I did that to but unfortunately National Historic landmarks are not keen on bulldozers. Lol

And don't mind me today. I'm home , stuck inside with two kids with strep. *grumpy*

 

[btjbtj]

Crusader, thanks for the detailed explanation and for the awesome link! Gonna go check it out now!

Totally disagree. Dandy Button is a commonly held term for these. Not technically correct, but nor is macaroni. In fact, they are one of the same.

If you want an Archaeological term, you would just call them large 'copper-alloy flat buttons'. Mostly plated in some way, but the base metal (at least 99% of them) is copper-alloy.

I use 'Dandy Button' because they are published as dating from 1750-80, where as a 'large copper-alloy flat button' could date from any period. So Dandy Button narrows down the margin of error.

 

[btjbtj]

Abe-yes! Could be a fancy piece of a buckle. Thanks for taking the time to share these photos. Very helpful! L&J
QUOTE=Ahab8;5117572]View attachment 1357580
View attachment 1357581
Here's a couple of examples. One without the guts that shows the shape. The other fully intact. I could be wrong but the shape and hole for the attachment look right[/QUOTE]

 

[CRUSADER]

Abe-yes! Could be a fancy piece of a buckle. Thanks for taking the time to share these photos. Very helpful! L&J
QUOTE=Ahab8;5117572]View attachment 1357580
View attachment 1357581
Here's a couple of examples. One without the guts that shows the shape. The other fully intact. I could be wrong but the shape and hole for the attachment look right

[/QUOTE]

They are right, its part of an 18th C shoe buckle. A pretty small one.(for these types)

 

[Iron Patch]

While I love to disagree with Mr. French fries and gravy, but that's what I would have done. And by quiet I mean no iron... no nothing. I have a 5 acre spot I did that to but unfortunately National Historic landmarks are not keen on bulldozers. Lol

And don't mind me today. I'm home , stuck inside with two kids with strep. *grumpy*

That works fine if there was never any type of structure there, but a massive waste of time at any typical Colonial site. Digging the place down would also be time consuming, but still more efficient and effective. As I said the cellar holes and trash pits you dig out completely, and the rest of the area take off a few inches at a time if you can. And also again if it was my place I would rip it apart and put it back together... I'd have to get it all!

 

[btjbtj]

Excellent work, guys! Thanks so much. Now I need to figure out how to do the Solved" thingy over on the What Is It forum! 😄 Spoke to John late last night. Apparently he found six more flat buttons. Will post later. -Lisa
doQUOTE=CRUSADER;5118033][/QUOTE]

They are right, its part of an 18th C shoe buckle. A pretty small one.(for these types)[/QUOTE]

 

[btjbtj]

Ok...no laughing... But can you explain to me what a trash pit and a seller who are? Common sense tells me it is a place where trash was put because there weren't landfills back then. And I guess a seller whole is a place where a foundation is or something? On the property there is an underground type of structure. It seems to be some sort of root cellar or hideout or who knows what. I'll have to ask John if he has detected inside there. His paved driveway isn't in good condition, so he will eventually have to replace it. I have a feeling that underneath that driveway is a Goldmine. All in good time. It is rumored that a couple of soldiers are buried on the property. If this is true, I hope they buried bodies 6 feet under back then! -Lisa

That works fine if there was never any type of structure there, but a massive waste of time at any typical Colonial site. Digging the place down would also be time consuming, but still more efficient and effective. As I said the celler holes and trash pits you dig out completely, and the rest of the area take off a few inches at a time if you can. And also again if it was my place I would rip it apart and put it back together... I'd have to get it all!

 

[Iron Patch]

Ok...no laughing... But can you explain to me what a trash pit and a seller who are? Common sense tells me it is a place where trash was put because there weren't landfills back then. And I guess a seller whole is a place where a foundation is or something? On the property there is an underground type of structure. It seems to be some sort of root cellar or hideout or who knows what. I'll have to ask John if he has detected inside there. His paved driveway isn't in good condition, so he will eventually have to replace it. I have a feeling that underneath that driveway is a Goldmine. All in good time. It is rumored that a couple of soldiers are buried on the property. If this is true, I hope they buried bodies 6 feet under back then! -Lisa

Yes, they buried the trash in a pit, and it does not give up a lot of great finds usually, but can surprise you. You also have the cellar hole right, just here most were filled in by surrounding dirt so are worth digging out. Most iron and finds tend to be close to the hole because that's where the house was.

 

[btjbtj]

Understood, Iron. Thanks! -L&J

QUOTE=Iron Patch;5118099]Yes, they buried the trash in a pit, and it does not give up a lot of great finds usually, but can surprise you. You also have the cellar hole right, just here most were filled in by surrounding dirt so are worth digging out. Most iron and finds tend to be close to the hole because that's where the house was.[/QUOTE]

 

[trapperart]

Congrats on your finds

 

[btjbtj]

Thanx, Trapper! -L&J

Congrats on your finds

 

[Patriot Relics]

Keep up the great work you guys, as others have mentioned fragment is part of a shoe buckle. Regarding the soil scraping, you have the luxury of an indefinite permission. Clearing is necessary, but try and methodically grid the area from both directions. Crusader is an expect on this so look to him for advice. Also try an hit the dirt after a long rain, wet soil does wonders to amplify the hallow effect of deep targets.

 

[btjbtj]

Thanks, VMI. Definitely good to know about detecting after a rain! ~L&J

Keep up the great work you guys, as others have mentioned fragment is part of a shoe buckle. Regarding the soil scraping, you have the luxury of an indefinite permission. Clearing is necessary, but try and methodically grid the area from both directions. Crusader is an expect on this so look to him for advice. Also try an hit the dirt after a long rain, wet soil does wonders to amplify the hallow effect of deep targets.