Dalton

[spot]

Type: Dalton

Material: Unknown (very heavy patination)

Providence: North East Texas

Note: May be first stage based on size for the area and knapping pattern

Morning,

This Dalton was recovered from a select cut in North East Texas about twenty five years ago. It was published in some archaeological memoir or book of which I have never owned a copy and can't recall the title. It is large for the type and the area in which it was found measuring over 4 1/2 inches. Based on the flaking style and size, I believe this is a first stage form meaning tht it has not had a resharpening since its original fabrication.

Unfortunately, you will note in one photograph that the upper blade edge has a little piece of dark colored modeling clay that I stuck on there when I first had it to fill in a ding that's there. Otherwise, the piece is entirely intact. As you can see, I am no restorer of artifacts...lol. I probably should have sent it off for restoration but I only own maybe three points that are restored.....I just never got into the restoration thing.

Of course Sloan and Pike County varients are longer/larger and also look a little different. For a plain Dalton from this area, it would be considered pretty good sized. It has that good, old and "greasy" feel to it.


Thanks for looking,

spot

 

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[luckyinkentucky]

First, let me state that's a damn nice Dalton. The material reminds me of some Johns Valley variants I've seen. I have to disagree with it being first stage though, as it looks heavily beveled. Beveling is the bi-product of resharpening and actually is one of the most intelligent and thrifty methods of it. If it WASN'T beveled, I would think it was a Vian Creek. But alas, Vian Creek typically resharpen to the center of the blade. Again, nice knife.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Beveling can be a primary or secondary stage sharpening process.

How do you explain Pinetrees?

Pinetrees aren't beveled. I guess you're getting serrations confused with beveling. Seems like you'd know things like that, being a knapper and all.

Not ALL Pinetrees are serrated.

Beveling is the product of a platform created for primary or secondary sharpening. It all depends on how skilled the maker was as to whether or not it will be beveled in the primary or secondary stage.

Ask any flint knapper. It all rests on the skill level of the artist.

I can already tell you the knapper wasn't that skilled !!! If he was he wouldn't have left all of those loose hinges on the 2nd face!!!

Furthermore .... if it had been resharpened it would have 'popped' some of the hinges on Side B during the resharpening phase. So, I say again .... it has never been resharpened. If it had it would have thrown some of the hinges on Side B, AND some of the other hinges on Side B would be worse. It all depends on what face the hinge was facing at the time of completion. Those that would oppose the flake would become a deeper or worse hinge, and those that go with the flake would have been removed.



I rest my case.

 

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[Pinellas Man]

Holy Smoke Spot! You keep rolling them out. That's a fine point and I'm glad you shared it with us.

 

[Neanderthal]

First, let me state that's a damn nice Dalton. The material reminds me of some Johns Valley variants I've seen. I have to disagree with it being first stage though, as it looks heavily beveled. Beveling is the bi-product of resharpening and actually is one of the most intelligent and thrifty methods of it. If it WASN'T beveled, I would think it was a Vian Creek. But alas, Vian Creek typically resharpen to the center of the blade. Again, nice knife.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Beveling can be a primary or secondary stage sharpening process.

How do you explain Pinetrees?

Pinetrees aren't beveled. I guess you're getting serrations confused with beveling. Seems like you'd know things like that, being a knapper and all.

Not ALL Pinetrees are serrated.

Beveling is the product of a platform created for primary or secondary sharpening. It all depends on how skilled the maker was as to whether or not it will be beveled in the primary or secondary stage.

Ask any flint knapper. It all rests on the skill level of the artist.

I can already tell you the knapper wasn't that skilled !!! If he was he wouldn't have left all of those loose hinges on the 2nd face!!!

Why am I even bothering to respond to you.

"Not ALL Pinetrees are serrated. " - The vast majority are. Look up as to why they were named Pine tree.

A Harahey knife, Lost Lake, Dalton...NONE of these start out life with that steeply inclined beveled edge. Beveling is the result or bi-product of several resharpenings. When the knapper takes flakes from the immediate edge, without driving the pressure flakes very far into the face of the bi-face, it will cause this. The REASON it's done is to save flint. With 2 edge beveling, a bi-face will lose width or mass at a much lesser rate than if reduced on all four edges - and retain just as sharp of an edge. There are other methods of resharpening. If the flakes are taken to the center (as cody complex are commonly resharpened), you will create or retain a median ridge. If the flakes are driven from one side of each each, but deeper into the bi-face, it will create a torqued blade (as is common with many of the Calf Creek Complex pieces).

"Ask any flint knapper. It all rests on the skill level of the artist." - I've been knapping around 30 years, perhaps you should try it sometime (regardless of your claims). Skill doesn't have as much to do with beveling as does necessity. Beveling was much more efficient, and Pine trees didn't practice it.

"I can already tell you the knapper wasn't that skilled !!! If he was he wouldn't have left all of those loose hinges on the 2nd face" - Again, didn't you claim to be a flintknapper? Surely you know that those "fingernails" are more reliant on the material than the knappers prowess. Surely you realize that even the best and most skillfully made points of certain materials still retain the "fingernails"? I guess not. That knapper was extremely skilled.


I have some advice for you. You will get alot further in life by being honest.

This is my last post to you.

 

[luckyinkentucky]

"The vast majority are. Look up as to why they were named Pine tree."

Gee ... is that a contradiction or what? Not ALL of them are. That's my point.

On a more serious note .... if you have been knapping for 30 yrs. I'd love to see some of your stuff. As a flint knapper you would also know that modern archaeologists don't know squat about flint knapping, and they bring to the table whatever they were taught. No offense, and I'm serious ... none intended, but it seems like you've taken an archy's point of view on this instead of hands on experience.

On a lighter note. Share some of your work. I'd love to see it.


As for your last comment .... " I have some advice for you. You will get alot further in life by being honest."

I have been honest. I have plenty of people locally that can vouch for my honesty. I wouldn't have been elected President of an archaeological society if I weren't of good character .... would I?

 

[pickaway]

Killer artifact congrats...

 

[spot]

Thanks everyone for your interest in this thread and your subsequent posts.

I have not had this point in my sight for a long time so I got it out last night to take a look at it.

It was also easy enough to see what I found in the photographs I supplied, I need to take a little closer look at what I'm posting!

Regardless of "stage", this point does incorporate a distinct bevel on both faces. The bevel is not terribly steep so that it would make a cross section of the point appear as a rhomboid. It is certainly there though.

I realize that this does not answer to the friendly debate on this thread nor do I intend it to. I'm no knapper and am not qualified to speak on the subject except in the principals of fabrication. I mean, I'm up to speed on 110 degree conchoidial fractures, platforms, etc. I know what these things mean and comprehend them but I don't physically perform the work. I tried a couple of times on my own and it didn't work out to say the least....LOL!

Thanks to all for looking,

spot

 

[Hawbuck]

glfkadbhkldfjabhkl;

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Western Kentucky Archaeological Society. We don't have a website, but I can send you the contact number if you are interested. It's free for now, and we meet at a local University once a month.

 

[Hawbuck]

e=lkfjgkl;afdjg

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Western Kentucky Archaeological Society. We don't have a website, but I can send you the contact number if you are interested. It's free for now, and we meet at a local University once a month.

Well i'd need the days you meet, location, contact person and number. Also is this like a casual meeting? Or do you need to dress nice since it's at a University? Does a pair of jeans and my Slayer tshirt work or do I need a pair of dress slacks and a dress shirt? Are the members expected to bring food like a covered dish? 8)

It's obvious by your tone that you aren't serious about anything you've said. If I were under the impression that you were genuinely interested in joining us I might be inclined to respond, but given your sarcasm ... I will not.

Don't forget the forum guidelines RJ ....... "If you disagree with another member's post, make your comments in a polite and respectful manner."

Your sole purpose on this forum for the past few days has been to respond to posts that I have made. Please give it a rest !!! The moderators have been notified.

 

[Hill Billy]

The moderators have been notified.




I don't see a brown spot on the smiley's nose

 

[Hawbuck]

lkajglkfajglk;aj

 

[capgun]

nice dalton

 

[gilmerman]

This is a keeper no matter what defects.

 

[Dc1013]

Very sweet dalton you have there thanks for the awesome look
Showme Mo.flint

 

[archaeon]

here are some examples of Dr.Gomers work... please don't try to Pm me, I can't receive messages

 

[spot]

Archaeon,

Thanks for the restoration information.........interesting.

Thanks for looking,

spot

 

[archaeon]

no problem! always glad to help...Gomer does excellent work, i was very happy with the results.

 

[Neanderthal]

I used to restore points, but quit due to boredom and time constraints. I will second Gomer, he's the best there is. He not only does a superb job, he's also a fantastic person.

However, let me also note that I don't think that tiny ding on the point warrants restoration. That's a wonderful piece and that only add character to it. I believe restoration should only be resorted to when it makes a drastic difference. For instance, if it makes a bucket heart-breaker into a "framer", then by all means do it. If it was mine, I'd leave it.

 

[ink-a-alot]

Type: Dalton

Material: Unknown (very heavy patination)

Providence: North East Texas

Note: May be first stage based on size for the area and knapping pattern

Morning,

This Dalton was recovered from a select cut in North East Texas about twenty five years ago. It was published in some archaeological memoir or book of which I have never owned a copy and can't recall the title. It is large for the type and the area in which it was found measuring over 4 1/2 inches. Based on the flaking style and size, I believe this is a first stage form meaning tht it has not had a resharpening since its original fabrication.

Unfortunately, you will note in one photograph that the upper blade edge has a little piece of dark colored modeling clay that I stuck on there when I first had it to fill in a ding that's there. Otherwise, the piece is entirely intact. As you can see, I am no restorer of artifacts...lol. I probably should have sent it off for restoration but I only own maybe three points that are restored.....I just never got into the restoration thing.

Of course Sloan and Pike County varients are longer/larger and also look a little different. For a plain Dalton from this area, it would be considered pretty good sized. It has that good, old and "greasy" feel to it.


Thanks for looking,

spot

nice point , have some like it.. probally 10,000 yeasr old.. i know some spots if u would like to hunt some let me know..