CW Era US Box Plate

[steelheadwill]

Hi All,
I never expected to find one of these
Gotta say thanks to Mike at Woodland Detectors for recommending the
Coiltek 15 WOT,
It will pull new finds from your 'Hunted Out' sites.
This plate was really deep.
It will make a great centerpiece for my NH Militia Buttons
My best find in a Looong Time.
See where it stopped the slug
thanks for looking & HH to Everybody
Putting a comparison pic of what I believe is the die match "Tall & sloppy U" style 501
everything looks to match especially the thin serif on top of the S
thanks Mr Ridgeway

 

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[HISPAN]

Congrats Herbie !

Although I'm not U.S.A but I know this is a find Banner, these buckles that are the most coveted in the U.S.A and also is in very good condition ... has my vote Banner !
H

 

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[artyfacts]

Good looking box plate. On my wish list for sure... Arty

 

[steelheadwill]

Nice One Will! You can tell its been in the mud a Long time because it looks good. The mud can leave minute pitting but leave it leaves brass looking nice and golden. Alot of

the Buttons I find in the muddy areas around here are IDENTICAL in color to that plate. Very nice snag my friend and I started thinking about it and you're right, that would

be a terrific centerpiece for those New Hampshires. It'll look good in a nice size Riker with Red or Blue Backing and the buttons around it. Send my a photo when you're done

with the display, I'd love to see it.

Thanks All!
Sentinel,
brass can come out completely clean sometimes, other times it will develop a dark crust that flakes right off.
this one was half and half, the crust came off, but left staining in that pitting you describe.
Boy, Mr Ridgeway has some beauties, I think his po111 buckle is a die match for this plate. http://www.relicman.com/plates/ArchivePlateFederalUSOval501and502TallSloppy.htm Love diggin This stuff
best to All!

 

[Jlambert4081]

The S on the buckle looks strange

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Sweet! Herbie That is one beautiful plate buddy.....That will display nicely. Wow

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

This is just an amazing find Herbie! Sorry I missed it yesterday!

Here's one that looks similar to yours with some info.

"Smooth olive patina on the face, full lead, and both loops intact on the reverse.
A Fine Example at $275.00"

Dave

 

[steelheadwill]

This is just an amazing find Herbie! Sorry I missed it yesterday!

Here's one that looks similar to yours with some info.

"Smooth olive patina on the face, full lead, and both loops intact on the reverse.
A Fine Example at $275.00"

Dave

Thanks all!
Dave, that is a beautiful example, wish mine had the patina.
saltwater does a better job of 'Cleaning' brass than Noxon and steelwool
Went for months with no CW finds, then during it's 150th anniversary week, I get 2 good ones! MDing never ceases to amaze me

 

[Nutriasub]

Fantastic Plate, I vote banner!!

Congrats on a great find, and it great shape

 

[steelheadwill]

Fantastic Plate, I vote banner!!

Congrats on a great find, and it great shape

Thanks All, Great Digs to You

 

[KyFreeBird]

Congradulations Herbie on a great piece of history !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steelheadwill]

The S on the buckle looks strange

greetings Jlambert
Indeed it does, it has been labelled the 'Tall & sloppy"
It looks identical to the example link to me.
What are your thoughts
I put a comparison pic & note in the OP

 

[ridger12]

That plate is in great shape! I would love to find one of those but my chances here in central PA is pretty slim.

 

[Southern loyalist]

Not to stir things up. I've lurking here for a while and have been detecting for about 30 years and digging and collecting CW relics for about that long as well. This thread has peaked my curiosity because, as some of you have noted, this box plate looks "odd" to me as well.

I can't tell from the photo... Are the remnants of the loops on the back iron or brass? If iron, it's original. If they're brass it's probably a reproduction. Either way it's a cool find, but it's odd that the iron loops show no rust on the back or through the front face as often happens after 140+ years in the ground, especially really wet and muddy ground.

Again, not wanting to stir things up or cast stones with my first post. It's a cool find regardless and it's been a while since I've dug a plate of any kind...

 

[steelheadwill]

Not to stir things up. I've lurking here for a while and have been detecting for about 30 years and digging and collecting CW relics for about that long as well. This thread has peaked my curiosity because, as some of you have noted, this box plate looks "odd" to me as well.

I can't tell from the photo... Are the remnants of the loops on the back iron or brass? If iron, it's original. If they're brass it's probably a reproduction. Either way it's a cool find, but it's odd that the iron loops show no rust on the back or through the front face as often happens after 140+ years in the ground, especially really wet and muddy ground.

Again, not wanting to stir things up or cast stones with my first post. It's a cool find regardless and it's been a while since I've dug a plate of any kind...

Greetings SouthernLoyalist
I'm thinking that the saltwater rusted out that steel so fast it had no time to stain.
Can you describe anything more specific than odd?
as stated, looks exactly like the po111 in link.
Plenty of relics found here going back to early 17th Century.
First plate I've found and I'm certain it's not a repro.
Best digs

 

[CrazySlasher]

Fantastic find!!

 

[JW15]

The hell with it...BANNER! That buckle is SWEET!!!

 

[steelheadwill]

That plate is in great shape! I would love to find one of those but my chances here in central PA is pretty slim.

Thanks ridger12, you never know, I didn't think I'd dig one of these, and bang!
I swept my coil over it during the 150th anniversary week
I have sent an inquiry to a Civil War expert regarding this item.
Will update this post when I hear back.
Best digs to you all

 

[steelheadwill]

Well I got a speedy answer from The CW expert,
in so many words no more free help.
He was kind enough to help me with a previous inquiry.
If anyone cares to elaborate more on the 'odd' look of the plate, I'm listening
best digs all

 

[Southern loyalist]

It's a great looking plate. Perhaps that's why I keep coming back to it. Since you have found buttons and other brass in the same area with the same condition/patina it's obvious that the ground there is kind to brass for whatever reason. The iron loops, if iron, are one piece with the two strands of connecting wire under the solder/lead between the loops. Often times the rusting wire between the loops bleeds through the lead back and even through the brass front as the rust doesn't stop once the visible loops are gone. It's like when you see rust coming through concrete from the rebar reinforcements inside.

I've dug about 20 of these plates over the years and have never seen one come out of the ground like this. Granted, I've never hunted where you found it, or anywhere remotely close and it's original condition is fascinating. All of mine, and I only have 4-5 remaining in my collection, show rust coming through in some fashion. This applies to eagle breast plates that I still have as well.

I'm not saying it's a repro, but I asked about the wire vs brass loops so that we could quickly
determine it's origin.

Again, I think it's a great find regardless and would love to hear a scientific explanation of how the soil, mud and water combination allows that brass stays so yellow. It's remarkable!

Also, all the CW experts that I know would look at pics and help you for free. Give Steve Sylvia at North South Traders Civil War a call and inquire with him. He's a great guy and may even be able to help explain the soil situation, or know someone that can.

Finally, and this is also just an opinion, but I wouldn't clean it at all. Leave the blemishes, at least until you know what you're working with. You'd hate to use something on that brass that may react with the unique properties of the soil. It looks great the way it is!

 

[steelheadwill]

It's a great looking plate. Perhaps that's why I keep coming back to it. Since you have found buttons and other brass in the same area with the same condition/patina it's obvious that the ground there is kind to brass for whatever reason. The iron loops, if iron, are one piece with the two strands of connecting wire under the solder/lead between the loops. Often times the rusting wire between the loops bleeds through the lead back and even through the brass front as the rust doesn't stop once the visible loops are gone. It's like when you see rust coming through concrete from the rebar reinforcements inside.

I've dug about 20 of these plates over the years and have never seen one come out of the ground like this. Granted, I've never hunted where you found it, or anywhere remotely close and it's original condition is fascinating. All of mine, and I only have 4-5 remaining in my collection, show rust coming through in some fashion. This applies to eagle breast plates that I still have as well.

I'm not saying it's a repro, but I asked about the wire vs brass loops so that we could quickly
determine it's origin.

Again, I think it's a great find regardless and would love to hear a scientific explanation of how the soil, mud and water combination allows that brass stays so yellow. It's remarkable!

Also, all the CW experts that I know would look at pics and help you for free. Give Steve Sylvia at North South Traders Civil War a call and inquire with him. He's a great guy and may even be able to help explain the soil situation, or know someone that can.

Finally, and this is also just an opinion, but I wouldn't clean it at all. Leave the blemishes, at least until you know what you're working with. You'd hate to use something on that brass that may react with the unique properties of the soil. It looks great the way it is!

Thanks SouthernLoyalist,
Given that there are no remains of the loops, they weren't brass.
Below are some examples of what CW era brass looks like after coming out of this tidal flat mud, shiny & pitted, occasionally with a crust that flakes off easily once dried. sometimes it will give you a start as it resembles gold.
I best recall digging a nickle size brass thumbnut of which the reeding was the first part visible
saw there is some rust stain on the rear, here's a closeup.
I have learned that less cleaning is usually better, the plate will remain as is.
Thanks for your input, I for one am happy to learn more about my finds.
Best to you