✅ SOLVED Cross Pendant or Clip? Catholic? Decorative Victorian?

[mangum]

Hello all! I'm really curious what this cross is, I love the design. I thought it was a pendant at first but after cleaning I'm wondering if its some sort of clip? A little background- the site is a late 1800s homesite but has been used and owned by a men's Catholic Order since the early 1930s. So, is this a decorative Victorian piece or is it somehow related to the church? As always any insight is appreciated! The cross cleaned up really nice. Thanks for in advance & HH!

 

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[HutSiteDigger]

I think it is related too the church.. Hope more info is provided by others! Neat find!!

 

[mangum]

I just had a neighbor suggest that this may be a hasp for a bible or other religious text. That would explain the 4 tiny holes which really wouldn't support a box but could support a book... Thoughts?

 

[CRUSADER]

I just had a neighbor suggest that this may be a hasp for a bible or other religious text. That would explain the 4 tiny holes which really wouldn't support a box but could support a book... Thoughts?

Well its too large for a cloak clasp, so seems a good ID to me.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I just had a neighbor suggest that this may be a hasp for a bible or other religious text. That would explain the 4 tiny holes which really wouldn't support a box but could support a book... Thoughts?

I like that idea, and I like the find...beautiful colour

SS

 

[Digger2]

I not only like the find, but I like the wheatie next to it!
The ornamentation designs on it, to me, looks like fluer de lis on the ends of each shaft protruding from the center.
My guess would be not a religious theme, just a beautiful hanger for whatever.
Thanks for posting it

Roy

 

[Breezie]

What are the measurements? Depending on the size, there is a possibility it could be a cloak or robe clasp. I'd like to know the dimensions excluding and including the hook. What is the material? Did it come out of the ground that color?

Interesting find
Breezie

 

[mangum]

What are the measurements? Depending on the size, there is a possibility it could be a cloak or robe clasp. I'd like to know the dimensions excluding and including the hook. What is the material? Did it come out of the ground that color?

Interesting find
Breezie

Hey Breezie. As you can see from the photo it is approximately 2 inches including the hook and 1.5 inches excluding the hook. It came out of the ground just as it looks in the photo with the wheat penny. I cleaned it using a toothpick (no water) and applied beeswax to seal it & bring out the detail (Burt's Bees lip balm). It is either copper or brass, hard to tell the difference sometimes. The VDI was similar to a penny. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

[mangum]

Thanks Breezie, you are right! After doing a few minutes of research I am convinced this is indeed a cloak clasp. This explains the 4 tiny holes as most of them I've found online have these (see below). So, since this is a cloak clasp I'm assuming that it is related in some way to the Catholic Order there. My next question is how old is this? Any way to get a ballpark guess? Thanks guys!

 

[Breezie]

Thanks Breezie, you are right! After doing a few minutes of research I am convinced this is indeed a cloak clasp. This explains the 4 tiny holes as most of them I've found online have these (see below). So, since this is a cloak clasp I'm assuming that it is related in some way to the Catholic Order there. My next question is how old is this? Any way to get a ballpark guess? Thanks guys!

People have been wearing capes/cloaks since dirt, but judging by the design and metal condition, I'd say late Victorian to the turn of the century. The Fleur-de-lis pattern has also been used since recorded history, and was very popular during the Victorian era. The Fleur-de-lis in religious area stood for the Holy Trinity, and the band that held it together was symbolic of the Virgin Mary.


Breezie

 

[mangum]

People have been wearing capes/cloaks since dirt, but judging by the design and metal condition, I'd say late Victorian to the turn of the century. The Fleur-de-lis pattern has also been used since recorded history, and was very popular during the Victorian era. The Fleur-de-lis in religious area stood for the Holy Trinity, and the band that held it together was symbolic of the Virgin Mary.


Breezie

Thanks Breezie!

 

[CRUSADER]

Thanks Breezie, you are right! After doing a few minutes of research I am convinced this is indeed a cloak clasp. This explains the 4 tiny holes as most of them I've found online have these (see below). So, since this is a cloak clasp I'm assuming that it is related in some way to the Catholic Order there. My next question is how old is this? Any way to get a ballpark guess? Thanks guys!View attachment 831516View attachment 831525

I'm not convinced, I've found hundreds & its not right in my opinion. I crossed it off as a cloak clasp the first look I made.

 

[mangum]

I'm not convinced, I've found hundreds & its not right in my opinion. I crossed it off as a cloak clasp the first look I made.

So are you still thinking it may be a book hasp? I found examples that were similar but not exact. It seems that alot of the cloak clasps do have these 4 tiny holes as the example I posted. I would love some more insight as I know you have a wealth of knowledge.

 

[CRUSADER]

So are you still thinking it may be a book hasp? I found examples that were similar but not exact. It seems that alot of the cloak clasps do have these 4 tiny holes as the example I posted. I would love some more insight as I know you have a wealth of knowledge.

Many book clasps have similar holes. The biggest issue I have is that yours is nearly 2" long; that would make it outside of the normal range & by far the largest example I have seen. Generally over time (hundreds of years) these have got larger, but that would put yours in the more modern bracket & I think the patina cries out Victorian - a period during which the large family Bible was popular. Also I don't remember seeing any clothes clasps with such an obivous religious symbol. Ask yourself; who would wear such an item & why? Then you narrow the bracket to those in the Church; so your thinking its a Church wardens Cloak??

 

[mangum]

Many book clasps have similar holes. The biggest issue I have is that yours is nearly 2" long; that would make it outside of the normal range & by far the largest example I have seen. Generally over time (hundreds of years) these have got larger, but that would put yours in the more modern bracket & I think the patina cries out Victorian - a period during which the large family Bible was popular. Also I don't remember seeing any clothes clasps with such an obivous religious symbol. Ask yourself; who would wear such an item & why? Then you narrow the bracket to those in the Church; so your thinking its a Church wardens Cloak??

I do believe so, the house that I found this at is part of a Catholic Order of men & has been since the early 1930s so a church warden's cloak is a strong possibility. The house was built in the 1880s. My guess is that it could have belonged to a bishop or priest. It was actually found not too far from a statue of the Virgin Mary. We actually have our club meetings at this location & plan to show it to some people that work there & get their feedback. I'll keep you updated.

 

[CRUSADER]

I do believe so, the house that I found this at is part of a Catholic Order of men & has been since the early 1930s so a church warden's cloak is a strong possibility. The house was built in the 1880s. My guess is that it could have belonged to a bishop or priest. It was actually found not too far from a statue of the Virgin Mary. We actually have our club meetings at this location & plan to show it to some people that work there & get their feedback. I'll keep you updated.

OK, the other issues I have, is that its press brass/copper & not the usual technique for making a cloak clasp (weak construction). Also the fixing holes are far too weak, as they would need to take a lot of pressure as the hasp & clasp were pulled apart.

 

[mangum]

OK, the other issues I have, is that its press brass/copper & not the usual technique for making a cloak clasp (weak construction). Also the fixing holes are far too weak, as they would need to take a lot of pressure as the hasp & clasp were pulled apart.

I was thinking the same thing about the weak construction, were these usually attached with pins or sewn on? Is it possible there was a second piece attached to the back?

 

[CRUSADER]

I was thinking the same thing about the weak construction, were these usually attached with pins or sewn on? Is it possible there was a second piece attached to the back?

Highly unlikely to be a 2 piece construction, never read of any. There are several ways to attached the various types, however, sewing was the most common.