Continuum

[azdave35]

I would love to see a real serious effort to find the LDM, with all of the legal required involvement, archeologist, historians etc. because this thing has gone way beyond anyone getting rich, it is history, and I believe, an aspect of history which is unknown, I would contribute every bit of information I have acquired, over thirty years worth, just to solve this and have the results made publicly available.
I am also convinced that such an alliance would require ZERO dollars of investment, from anyone, the only expense would be each members own supplies and cost.
there is a wealth of information here, and if all of it could be analyzed, this would quickly become solved.
but alas......way too many greedy people looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

exactly...it doesn't take 200k to find a lost mine..if you have invested more than 5k into it then you should have folded up then...anything after that is just an obsession...that's how all the con men of the superstitions got started...they burn up all their dough...then they hit up friends and family...then they start looking for investors

 

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[arcana-exploration]

And no hole in the ground can adumbrate the value of true friendship.
But they often do.

So Hal forget if we have found the mine or not. Are you saying the other things I stated that we are self-funding 100% percent is not true as that what you are saying?

 

[arcana-exploration]

Hal, I send the time I have spent researching and writing at 20 and hour would come to that, And it is time and money, I will recoup, and do not need to, my point is if I was doing it for money I would be doing something else.

Five thousand dollars to fly 5 people from Columbus to Phoniex and back 5 times plus lodging and food and equipment, Allan what are you talking about, we do not get in a truck out in the driveway in gold Canyo, what on earth are you talking about, Allan, you are a smart guy I think, that is the most surprising thing you have ever posted, really.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Sorry that was for Allan.

 

[azdave35]

Hal, I send the time I have spent researching and writing at 20 and hour would come to that, And it is time and money, I will recoup, and do not need to, my point is if I was doing it for money I would be doing something else.

Five thousand dollars to fly 5 people from Columbus to Phoniex and back 5 times plus lodging and food and equipment, Allan what are you talking about, we do not get in a truck out in the driveway in gold Canyo, what on earth are you talking about, Allan, you are a smart guy I think, that is the most surprising thing you have ever posted, really.

maybe you should have picked a lost mine in your own state that you can drive to...or just moved here like the rest of them did

 

[Al D]

Hal, I send the time I have spent researching and writing at 20 and hour would come to that, And it is time and money, I will recoup, and do not need to, my point is if I was doing it for money I would be doing something else.

Five thousand dollars to fly 5 people from Columbus to Phoniex and back 5 times plus lodging and food and equipment, Allan what are you talking about, we do not get in a truck out in the driveway in gold Canyo, what on earth are you talking about, Allan, you are a smart guy I think, that is the most surprising thing you have ever posted, really.

I am going to be very blunt, not to be mean, but you need you consider this;
whenever anyone has an idea which could make them famous, rich, or just plain popular, there are always people sitting on the sidelines waiting to hitch a free ride, like your editor...maybe.
I was writing a book about ten years ago, just like you guys, however, after reading every book available on the subject at that time, and realizing that 99% of them were just plain BS, just like the brothers from Mass. who stated that the ghost of Jacob Waltz came to them in a vision and showed them where the mine was, I realized that regardless of what I discovered or wrote, no one would read it, except a few, definitely not enough to even recoup the cost of publication.
you guys are dedicated, I will give you that you may have even found something, I do not think it is the LDM, but who cares what I think, however, you are spending way too much time and effort and will only end up making someone else happy at your expense

 

[arcana-exploration]

maybe you should have picked a lost mine in your own state that you can drive to...or just moved here like the rest of them did

As the saying goes, gold is where you find it. And actually, three of us are looking at buying houses, in North Messa, we love it out there you are lucky and ya all are so hospitable.

We are not complaining about the cost, it is what it is and we have made the decision to spend, it and we have no regrets at all, even if the book recuops nothing. I just wish we had Allan for team manager he can get us all there and back 5 separate trips house rental 63 days, food, equipment and plenty of misc things for 5 grand, we need to fire Capt Dave and get Allan as our team manager, he can do it for five grand, and he has it all figured out, heck Allanget your friends that you trust and getter done, what the hold up I am sure you have lots of friends you can trust, right. And you only have to pull out of your driveway drive 40 minutes and you are there. Boy, we must be the dumbest guys, ever to be born, we are spending our own money have found nothing but are lying about it because we are a pack of idiots that do not have two dimes to rub together, we just like being stupid idiots. Truth be told we may not have what we think we have, but we will know after our next trip, one way or the other. If we are wrong it will not be the end of the world, and it will have been worth because we found Messa and we are going to buy homes there. In the end, we are trying to do the right thing but, if we fail it is on us, at least we are not armchair QBs, we are out there putting boots to the ground, and ever dame penny is ours, dams money that we have spent, so if fail some of you can say I told you so, and if successful, some of you for sure will go into denial mode. and by the way, we are working with a historian and an anthropologist(not an archeologist I know- there fields overlap) she knows her stuff. I guess if we are really idiots running around out there like chickens with our heads cut off and find nothing but rattlesnakes, you all will be able to confirm we spent our on money on a wild goose so there is nothing to concern about just bunch of yolks from Ohio lost in the Supers. But one thing we are not is armchair -wanna be's.

 

[Al D]

Hal, I send the time I have spent researching and writing at 20 and hour would come to that, And it is time and money, I will recoup, and do not need to, my point is if I was doing it for money I would be doing something else.

Five thousand dollars to fly 5 people from Columbus to Phoniex and back 5 times plus lodging and food and equipment, Allan what are you talking about, we do not get in a truck out in the driveway in gold Canyo, what on earth are you talking about, Allan, you are a smart guy I think, that is the most surprising thing you have ever posted, really.

I think you have the quotes mixed up...among other things

 

[azdave35]

As the saying goes, gold is where you find it. And actually, three of us are looking at buying houses, in North Messa, we love it out there you are lucky and ya all are so hospitable.

We are not complaining about the cost, it is what it is and we have made the decision to spend, it and we have no regrets at all, even if the book recuops nothing. I just wish we had Allan for team manager he can get us all there and back 5 separate trips house rental 63 days, food, equipment and plenty of misc things for 5 grand, we need to fire Capt Dave and get Allan as our team manager, he can do it for five grand, and he has it all figured out, heck Allanget your friends that you trust and getter done, what the hold up I am sure you have lots of friends you can trust, right. And you only have to pull out of your driveway drive 40 minutes and you are there. Boy, we must be the dumbest guys, ever to be born, we are spending our own money have found nothing but are lying about it because we are a pack of idiots that do not have two dimes to rub together, we just like being stupid idiots. Truth be told we may not have what we think we have, but we will know after our next trip, one way or the other. If we are wrong it will not be the end of the world, and it will have been worth because we found Messa and we are going to buy homes there. In the end, we are trying to do the right thing but, if we fail it is on us, at least we are not armchair QBs, we are out there putting boots to the ground, and ever dame penny is ours, dams money that we have spent, so if fail some of you can say I told you so, and if successful, some of you for sure will go into denial mode. and by the way, we are working with a historian and an anthropologist(not an archeologist I know- there fields overlap) she knows her stuff. I guess if we are really idiots running around out there like chickens with our heads cut off and find nothing but rattlesnakes, you all will be able to confirm we spent our on money on a wild goose so there is nothing to concern about just bunch of yolks from Ohio lost in the Supers. But one thing we are not is armchair -wanna be's.

actually it wasn't alan that said 5k should be the limit..it was me...also both alan and i have better sense than to sink our life savings into chasing a legend that has more holes in it than swiss cheese..its fun to read about but i wouldn't waste a thin dime looking for it...if i had the urge to search for a lost mine or treasure it sure wouldn't be in a wilderness area that you couldn't drive to or claim if you found it

 

[Hal Croves]

I can tell you from personal experience that if I believed I had located such a target, I would: 1) cover all my own expenses regardless of the sacrifices and hardships required to continue; and 2) reveal nothing to anyone except insiders until the project was completed.

There is no Mission Statement for the group other than several references to a future book. That's fine - nothing wrong with books. There is a request for funds, which a red flag for me. Are contributors granted some sort of a partnership in the venture with immediate full disclosure of all facts, or is it just a go-fund-me type of deal, which seems the most likely? There's a big, big difference in the two and the second option is troubling ... see 1) in the paragraph above.

The website also puzzles me. I see no reason for it other than the call for money. A definitive discovery of this alleged magnitude should be self-evident when the book is published.

We've never met but reading your posts over the years, I believe it when you wrote that you would cover all your own expenses regardless of sacrifice or hardships.
The Ohio group asked for advice, I gave it based on what little insight I have earned. Follow the law, but never, ever lets anyone deprive you of that which you have legally earned.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hey Allan, We started the site on the suggestion of our editor, and book agent, saying it would help with the book, just be careful not to keep the best stuff for the book. Look at all the people who have wrote books, and looked for the LDM, if a book only telling our story and what we have discovered, but not mining and taking nothing historical, if that is a commercial venture being like Helen Corbin Tom K Wayne Tuttle are commercial also commercial ventures, then I guess we are not unlike them. We have a story to tell, and I am a book at 15 measly dollars and hour I am 200k in the hole, where is the big commercial venture, there are no o zip investors, we are not counting my time, 100k ( not counting work time lost) in the hole. If we never recoup a dime beyond that from the book that is ok. If our site looks commercial in some ways I guess that is a compliment. We have learned a lot along the way about how to do this stuff. Hell, we turned down an offer from a producer because they wanted us to do things we would not be comfortable doing. (they contacted us not us them FROM THE SITE). So we do not want or do not need investors and in the end, will use all our own funds. Commercial endeavor is for-profit- Allan we are totally self-funding and will remain that way. Our editor of the book suggested a site to help promote the book but mkae sure to keep the best stuff for the book. At $15 measly dollars per hour I 'am about 185k in the hole. If this was a business, we would be bankrupt. But somethings have to be followed to get everybody safe and secure. I am a 72-year-old fart writing about a journey with my best friends who for me have sacrificed their own money, time away from families to do this for me, late in my life how lucky I am to have such great friends. The comradery and the journey are what this old fart is writing about, more than half the book ii about our personal journies. I idea is to tell this so the guy in Detroit seating at his desk looking out at a foot of snow can dream he is with us or someone older who always wanted to have a great venture, but because of obligation or health could never do it; can vicariously travel along with us. I want to let folks who know nothing about the LDM or the fantastic Superstition Mountains travel with us and discover and share in this fantastic place. I want my great children someday to take their grandfather's book to show and tell so I can be with them in spirit. If the book is a success and makes some money that is not a crime. So we no investors, e-mail us we will turn you down. WE have taken nothing 0 zip from the site. We are just five guys blowing our own money on a Qwest. WE do have an agreement between us all to dot hold one and other liable in case someone gets injured or worse. Our agreement does have a personal mission statement that states we on a historical fact-finding mission, and every member will abide by the agreement which states all will we follow all legal protocol, and will not deface, take, or mine illegally for anything. And that our first and primary objective is to photo document anything we find that may be important and that of course, we be in our book but only after we make sure, it is protected. Allan have a great weekend. Gold Canyon is a nice area. Thanks, Jeff.

Those are not my words that you are quoting.

 

[Hal Croves]

I suggest you find a new editor

Sound advice alan m. Or invest in The ELEMENTS of STYLE - William Strunk Jr. & E.B. White.

 

[Al D]

Those are not my words that you are quoting.

Yes, I know, there is something wrong with the way the quotes are getting posted, even with ones that I have nothing to do with.
maybe the mods can fix it

 

[Hal Croves]

I would love to see a real serious effort to find the LDM, with all of the legal required involvement, archeologist, historians etc. because this thing has gone way beyond anyone getting rich, it is history, and I believe, an aspect of history which is unknown, I would contribute every bit of information I have acquired, over thirty years worth, just to solve this and have the results made publicly available.
I am also convinced that such an alliance would require ZERO dollars of investment, from anyone, the only expense would be each members own supplies and cost.
there is a wealth of information here, and if all of it could be analyzed, this would quickly become solved.
but alas......way too many greedy people looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to step forward and change history in 2020.
Numerology - "The energy represented by the number 2020 has a resonance of focus and relationships. It also resonates with conscientiousness, pragmatism, and teamwork."

I also wouldn't mind meeting you alan m. 30 years is impressive.

 

[Al D]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to step forward and change history in 2020.
Numerology - "The energy represented by the number 2020 has a resonance of focus and relationships. It also resonates with conscientiousness, pragmatism, and teamwork."

I also wouldn't mind meeting you alan m. 30 years is impressive.

Maybe at the rendezvous this year, 30 years is nothing, time goes by way too quickly, poof, before you realize it.

 

[Hal Croves]

So Hal forget if we have found the mine or not. Are you saying the other things I stated that we are self-funding 100% percent is not true as that what you are saying?

I don't recall making any judgement on you or your team, especially regarding funding.
I was simply pointing out that success will put your friendships to the test and that you each should be conscious of it.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, I send the time I have spent researching and writing at 20 and hour would come to that, And it is time and money, I will recoup, and do not need to, my point is if I was doing it for money I would be doing something else.

Five thousand dollars to fly 5 people from Columbus to Phoniex and back 5 times plus lodging and food and equipment, Allan what are you talking about, we do not get in a truck out in the driveway in gold Canyo, what on earth are you talking about, Allan, you are a smart guy I think, that is the most surprising thing you have ever posted, really.

Sorry, I honestly am a little dense and don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say in this post. Nothing wrong with seeking an investor, nothing wrong with profiting from your experience, but don't jeopardize everything that you are working towards. Follow the law and enjoy yourselves.

 

[Hal Croves]

actually it wasn't alan that said 5k should be the limit..it was me...also both alan and i have better sense than to sink our life savings into chasing a legend that has more holes in it than swiss cheese..its fun to read about but i wouldn't waste a thin dime looking for it...if i had the urge to search for a lost mine or treasure it sure wouldn't be in a wilderness area that you couldn't drive to or claim if you found it

"Genau"*




*Jacob Waltz

 

[Hal Croves]

Maybe at the rendezvous this year, 30 years is nothing, time goes by way too quickly, poof, before you realize it.

Unfortunately, its not in the cards this year. But with a little bit of luck, actually a lot of luck, I am hoping to be there in 2020.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

arcana exploration,

Was Howard Graves the man who had a group of researchers and gave a talk at the Dutch hunters rendezvous several years ago ? I seem to remember him and talked with him as well as emailed back and forth several times.

Matthew