CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS

[franklin]

I accept the realities of life, and know the difference between what is jive and what is real.
So far, no one has seen very much of what you claim he produced, but have read many, many posts of his claims.
PS: There have been many others who have claimed to have solved the C1 & C3 ciphers, so his claim is not unique in the least.

I am one of those "SOLVED" I have an excavation at site and it was found 3 and 1/2 years after the "SOLVED" It is at the edge of the four mile limit from Buford's Tavern. There was wine bottles found two feet under ground and five feet below the surface of the ground. All the deciphered code is accurate I can find nothing wrong with my "SOLVED" I have all 31 associates names and addresses by using the same "SOLVED" There was two silver coins found over two years later on the opposite bank of the creek dated before 1819. Pots were found downstream in the 1960's. My "SOLVED" is copyrighted and is out there for everyone to see. Where is Rev. Piper's?

 

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[TN_Guest1523]

I have watched him produce evidences that everybody reacts in nothing more than contempt and outrageously fight's everything he producers. The evidences he puts forth I check and find in line with that of someone who only could have gained that knowledge from decoding the pages. One way to prove it to the world, would be to publish the decoding using different words and adding words that no one could see how Jean decoded it. This would put his decoding out for the world to see and no one in the future could say his work was there's.

Thank, I am glad to see someone see's what is going on here .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I am one of those "SOLVED" I have an excavation at site and it was found 3 and 1/2 years after the "SOLVED" It is at the edge of the four mile limit from Buford's Tavern. There was wine bottles found two feet under ground and five feet below the surface of the ground. All the deciphered code is accurate I can find nothing wrong with my "SOLVED" I have all 31 associates names and addresses by using the same "SOLVED" There was two silver coins found over two years later on the opposite bank of the creek dated before 1819. Pots were found downstream in the 1960's. My "SOLVED" is copyrighted and is out there for everyone to see. Where is Rev. Piper's?

Not for your eyes to see, I will have to get the right people to confirm my work one day and I am working on that now . But it would not be in my best interest to show everybody what I have found in the ciphers, now would it ?

 

[ECS]

Thank, I am glad to see someone see's what is going on here .

What do you perceive is going on here?
You keep stating that you have solved C1 & C3 but when this and the validity other information you have posted is questioned, you go on the defensive with either insults or the posting of cute photo put downs.
That my friend, is not a show of strength for your position.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

What do you perceive is going on here?
You keep stating that you have solved C1 & C3 but when this and the validity other information you have posted is questioned, you go on the defensive with either insults or the posting of cute photo put downs.
That my friend, is not a show of strength for your position.

You were looking in the mirror as you typed that right . lol

Back from Florida, Nice Tiki Bar and grill there . Lake Minneola !

 

[ECS]

...

Back from Florida, Nice Tiki Bar and grill there . Lake Minneola !

Landshark lager on tap, burgers with chips, slow service, but a nice view of the lake...and a waitress named Tammy Jean Beale.
TJB? Must be a lead to solving the ciphers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Landshark lager on tap, burgers with chips, slow service, but a nice view of the lake...and a waitress named Tammy Jean Beale.
TJB? Must be a lead to solving the ciphers.

Heh... Go DIG IT, man!

 

[audigger53]

A lot like the stories pit out by Barry Storm, Dobie and others. The stories may well have some truth to them, but they made their money on sell books. Also under human nature it makes them feel smarter, and possible richer than the ones that bought into the stories or bought the books.
Forgetting the #2 code, why has no one found the directions to the cache?
Roads good enough for wagons were not that common across the mountains (Blue Ridge). What route would/could they have taken to get back to secure/safe area to make the cache?
Where could they have made the cache without people at that time seeing it and them? All of this is in reference to it being real, IMO.
If Buford had people living there and possible hunting in the mountains on the Eastern side, then wouldn't they have made the cache on the Western side? Or even before that?
What was the population density of the area to allow them to make the cache in secrecy? After all that was a lot of gold and silver to move. After all gold is almost twice the Specific gravity of Silver. 19.2 (Gold) to 10.5 (Silver) even if you add some lead (11.2) to the silver and the bulk is still almost twice the bulk of the Gold.

If I am making you think "outside the box", that is good.

 

[Old Silver]

A lot like the stories pit out by Barry Storm, Dobie and others. The stories may well have some truth to them, but they made their money on sell books. Also under human nature it makes them feel smarter, and possible richer than the ones that bought into the stories or bought the books.
Forgetting the #2 code, why has no one found the directions to the cache?
Roads good enough for wagons were not that common across the mountains (Blue Ridge). What route would/could they have taken to get back to secure/safe area to make the cache?
Where could they have made the cache without people at that time seeing it and them? All of this is in reference to it being real, IMO.
If Buford had people living there and possible hunting in the mountains on the Eastern side, then wouldn't they have made the cache on the Western side? Or even before that?
What was the population density of the area to allow them to make the cache in secrecy? After all that was a lot of gold and silver to move. After all gold is almost twice the Specific gravity of Silver. 19.2 (Gold) to 10.5 (Silver) even if you add some lead (11.2) to the silver and the bulk is still almost twice the bulk of the Gold.

If I am making you think "outside the box", that is good.

Thinking outside the box would include researching the weight of the supposed treasure and dividing by a reasonable number of teams that could pull the weight. I have posted on this:

In an advertisement in the Lynchburg Press, Dec. 1819, someone (unidentified) offered for sale 8 or 10 ox carts, 8 or 10 teams of oxen, and 10 or 12 work horses. Notice the timing - Dec., 1819. The Beale papers say that Beale and 10 of his party made the 1st deposit in Nov., 1819. Just after this, the correct number or oxen and ox carts were put up for sale in Lynchburg.

So, why sell the carts and oxen, if they were going back to do more mining? Well, I would imagine it would be much easier to walk/ride back to St. Louis free of all the extra baggage. And once back in St. Louis it would be easy enough to purchase FRESH animals, and carts. Also, the trip back to St. Louis with all the oxen, carts, etc. would excite more unwanted attention.

IF the 10 ox carts and animals were those of Beale and the 10 men that went with him to transport the treasure to Virginia, then each cart would have a team of oxen and 1 work horse for each cart, with maybe a couple of spare work horses. And here's the kicker. The weight of the treasure for each cart would have been only 400-500 pounds. That's about the weight of two to three average men. It doesn't seem quite as impossible as some want to believe. Just saying it's possible.

That was just for the first load, which would have been a little less than 500 pounds. The 2nd load would have been just a little more than 300 pounds, plus whatever the jewels would have weighed. These animals could have pulled these loads very easily. And remember they may have had a couple of spare work horses.

Even if these animals being sold were not those of Beale and his party, it still shows that the weight of gold/silver given in the Beale Papers could have easily been transported. But isn't it just a little od that these very animals were put up for sale at the very time that Beale and his men would have done so? And the number of teams matches the number of men that transported the treasure to Virginia.

 

[franklin]

A lot like the stories pit out by Barry Storm, Dobie and others. The stories may well have some truth to them, but they made their money on sell books. Also under human nature it makes them feel smarter, and possible richer than the ones that bought into the stories or bought the books.
Forgetting the #2 code, why has no one found the directions to the cache?
Roads good enough for wagons were not that common across the mountains (Blue Ridge). What route would/could they have taken to get back to secure/safe area to make the cache?
Where could they have made the cache without people at that time seeing it and them? All of this is in reference to it being real, IMO.
If Buford had people living there and possible hunting in the mountains on the Eastern side, then wouldn't they have made the cache on the Western side? Or even before that?
What was the population density of the area to allow them to make the cache in secrecy? After all that was a lot of gold and silver to move. After all gold is almost twice the Specific gravity of Silver. 19.2 (Gold) to 10.5 (Silver) even if you add some lead (11.2) to the silver and the bulk is still almost twice the bulk of the Gold.

If I am making you think "outside the box", that is good.

I love your thinking. The road everyone is searching for on the treasure believe it to be on the Buchannon-Fincastle road that crossed near Bobbitt's Gap. However that road was closed around 1817. That about blowing a whistle so the Buford's knew how many was coming for supper was not the case as the mountain road had been closed also. The main thoroughfare was the Lynchburg-Salem Turnpike or Route 460 today. That is where the cave is located that they said they were going to bury the treasure in to start with. Think what would have happened if TJB and his ten companions had been killed after the first deposit. The other 20 associates would not have known that they had buried the treasure in another location. Only the second trip left someone that could have told the rest with the codes and iron box. I still believe the story was made up.


If you look at the decipherment that is given for C2 by the author you will see something that should not have been in the decipherment. The only way you can find it is to break C2 yourself and then you can see that the author made the story up and did not want his name associated with the story.

 

[ECS]

There are many clues throughout the Beale Papers that show the "author" borrowed from several sources to "make up" the Beale story and the ciphers.

 

[audigger53]

If I actually broke the code of the location, I would never be heard from on this site again. LOL I sure would NOT post pictures of the treasure. I would take the gold and convert it to cash and go overseas and sell the emeralds there. The Rubies might well be Garnets, but the Emeralds would be some of the good ones from Columbia.
Why would anyone post a large cache find on the NET? So they can give it all to the Government? After all it is over 50 years old and that makes it a historical artifact.
BTW I would leave the silver and it is not worth the money compared to the gold and gems. Might even leave the gold and just take the gems. Easy to carry and easier to convert to cash. Greed has hurt more people than even politicians except when they start a "Little War" to drive off a recession.

 

[ECS]

... The road everyone is searching for on the treasure believe it to be on the Buchannon-Fincastle road that crossed near Bobbitt's Gap. However that road was closed around 1817. That about blowing a whistle so the Buford's knew how many was coming for supper was not the case as the mountain road had been closed also. The main thoroughfare was the Lynchburg-Salem Turnpike or Route 460 today. That is where the cave is located that they said they were going to bury the treasure in to start with. Think what would have happened if TJB and his ten companions had been killed after the first deposit. The other 20 associates would not have known that they had buried the treasure in another location. Only the second trip left someone that could have told the rest with the codes and iron box. I still believe the story was made up.


If you look at the decipherment that is given for C2 by the author you will see something that should not have been in the decipherment. The only way you can find it is to break C2 yourself and then you can see that the author made the story up and did not want his name associated with the story.

That's the point.
The way the Beale Papers is constructed, it slowly draws the reader in, paragraph by paragraph, so by the time one comes to the provided DOI "solved" C2, they never give the C2 a second look, but move on to solve the C1 & C3.
When one studies those involved with the creation, publication, advertising, and selling of the job pamphlet, and the various books, news articles, family histories, and so on that provided influences that can be found and traced to their original source, it is easy to determine that the story is a work of fiction, and the ciphers merely a parlor entertainment.

 

[franklin]

That's the point.
The way the Beale Papers is constructed, it slowly draws the reader in, paragraph by paragraph, so by the time one comes to the provided DOI "solved" C2, they never give the C2 a second look, but move on to solve the C1 & C3.
When one studies those involved with the creation, publication, advertising, and selling of the job pamphlet, and the various books, news articles, family histories, and so on that provided influences that can be found and traced to their original source, it is easy to determine that the story is a work of fiction, and the ciphers merely a parlor entertainment.

Now that is saying a lot. I have kindly leaned that way here lately. I have researched this Beale Treasure and worked on solving the C1 & C2 for the past 52 years. When I first read the deciphering of C2, I was kind of suspicious of it being a made up story.

First, the author said he arranged the cipher papers in the order of their length and numbered them, then starting with C1 he would procure books and number the words to see if each could be the "KEY" The author said he was unsuccessful until he numbered the DOI and it gave him the meaning of C2 by accident. In the deciphering of C2 he comes up with it saying, C3 has the names of all his associates and their place of residence, C1 gives the exact locality of the treasure vault. How did C2 contain reference to C3 & C1 if the author himself numbered the pages of codes?

Another error was made by the author in his haste to number the words of the DOI, he gets down to around number 460 and makes a fatal mistake by making a miscount of ten. He puts the same number down two times in a space of ten words then numbers them the same as usual. Yet when he deciphers C2 all of the letters above his mistake hit on the exact letter he was looking for in the decipherment when they should have been off by a count of ten.

A third mistake the author made was when he wrote down what C2 and he substituted "thousands" for "hundreds" and this clearly is not what the plain text said.

A fourth mistake the author made was using a DOI that published in 1870's instead of before 1822. As 1822 should have been when TJB wrote down C1, C2 and C3 yet the author's DOI came from the 1870's

Thomas Beale had the highest respect for Robert Morris to carry out his plan for he and his associates demise yet Robert Morris does not open the ironbox in 1832 he waits another thirteen years longer and this in itself could have cost the heirs of the associates their shares of the treasure. Robert Morris almost died at the age of 69 why did he not expound his secret to the author then instead of waiting another 16 years.

There is no record in the newspapers of St. Louis, Mo. or Franklin, Mo. some 200 miles further up the Missouri River about Thomas J. Beale's Party heading West or heading East the four trips he said he made.

The Spanish Archives are very accurate. They report every party by name and each member of the party and their names. Yet you search from 1817 to 1822 there never was a Thomas J. Beale or party in Sante Fe. They never traded and they were never arrested and they certainly did not buy any mining supplies as the Spanish would have accompanied them to the death. James Pursley only had a few nuggets in his shot pouch and the Spanish continually asked him to take them where he found the gold, Pursley refused and they kept him under house arrest from 1805 to 1822. Pursley was released and traveled back East with the Jacob Fowler Party.

This is my reasons for believing as ECS does that the Beale Treasure was a parlor story and made for profit. You can search and you can post how you broke C1 and C3 but believe you me if they could have been broken I would have broke them years ago. Happy Trails to you.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Now that is saying a lot. I have kindly leaned that way here lately. I have researched this Beale Treasure and worked on solving the C1 & C2 for the past 52 years. When I first read the deciphering of C2, I was kind of suspicious of it being a made up story.

First, the author said he arranged the cipher papers in the order of their length and numbered them, then starting with C1 he would procure books and number the words to see if each could be the "KEY" The author said he was unsuccessful until he numbered the DOI and it gave him the meaning of C2 by accident. In the deciphering of C2 he comes up with it saying, C3 has the names of all his associates and their place of residence, C1 gives the exact locality of the treasure vault. How did C2 contain reference to C3 & C1 if the author himself numbered the pages of codes?

Another error was made by the author in his haste to number the words of the DOI, he gets down to around number 460 and makes a fatal mistake by making a miscount of ten. He puts the same number down two times in a space of ten words then numbers them the same as usual. Yet when he deciphers C2 all of the letters above his mistake hit on the exact letter he was looking for in the decipherment when they should have been off by a count of ten.

A third mistake the author made was when he wrote down what C2 and he substituted "thousands" for "hundreds" and this clearly is not what the plain text said.

A fourth mistake the author made was using a DOI that published in 1870's instead of before 1822. As 1822 should have been when TJB wrote down C1, C2 and C3 yet the author's DOI came from the 1870's

Thomas Beale had the highest respect for Robert Morris to carry out his plan for he and his associates demise yet Robert Morris does not open the ironbox in 1832 he waits another thirteen years longer and this in itself could have cost the heirs of the associates their shares of the treasure. Robert Morris almost died at the age of 69 why did he not expound his secret to the author then instead of waiting another 16 years.

There is no record in the newspapers of St. Louis, Mo. or Franklin, Mo. some 200 miles further up the Missouri River about Thomas J. Beale's Party heading West or heading East the four trips he said he made.

The Spanish Archives are very accurate. They report every party by name and each member of the party and their names. Yet you search from 1817 to 1822 there never was a Thomas J. Beale or party in Sante Fe. They never traded and they were never arrested and they certainly did not buy any mining supplies as the Spanish would have accompanied them to the death. James Pursley only had a few nuggets in his shot pouch and the Spanish continually asked him to take them where he found the gold, Pursley refused and they kept him under house arrest from 1805 to 1822. Pursley was released and traveled back East with the Jacob Fowler Party.

This is my reasons for believing as ECS does that the Beale Treasure was a parlor story and made for profit. You can search and you can post how you broke C1 and C3 but believe you me if they could have been broken I would have broke them years ago. Happy Trails to you.

( if they could have been broken I would have broke them years ago )

You have said you did it, now we know you did not decode them, just selling books eh !

 

[franklin]

( if they could have been broken I would have broke them years ago )

You have said you did it, now we know you did not decode them, just selling books eh !

I said I could have broken it if it were a true text to decipher----It is not. It is made up and no one can decipher it not even you.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I said I could have broken it if it were a true text to decipher----It is not. It is made up and no one can decipher it not even you.

Cool, so that make me the only one that has decoded them all .

 

[Old Silver]

Now that is saying a lot. I have kindly leaned that way here lately. I have researched this Beale Treasure and worked on solving the C1 & C2 for the past 52 years. When I first read the deciphering of C2, I was kind of suspicious of it being a made up story.

First, the author said he arranged the cipher papers in the order of their length and numbered them, then starting with C1 he would procure books and number the words to see if each could be the "KEY" The author said he was unsuccessful until he numbered the DOI and it gave him the meaning of C2 by accident. In the deciphering of C2 he comes up with it saying, C3 has the names of all his associates and their place of residence, C1 gives the exact locality of the treasure vault. How did C2 contain reference to C3 & C1 if the author himself numbered the pages of codes?

Another error was made by the author in his haste to number the words of the DOI, he gets down to around number 460 and makes a fatal mistake by making a miscount of ten. He puts the same number down two times in a space of ten words then numbers them the same as usual. Yet when he deciphers C2 all of the letters above his mistake hit on the exact letter he was looking for in the decipherment when they should have been off by a count of ten.

A third mistake the author made was when he wrote down what C2 and he substituted "thousands" for "hundreds" and this clearly is not what the plain text said.

A fourth mistake the author made was using a DOI that published in 1870's instead of before 1822. As 1822 should have been when TJB wrote down C1, C2 and C3 yet the author's DOI came from the 1870's

Thomas Beale had the highest respect for Robert Morris to carry out his plan for he and his associates demise yet Robert Morris does not open the ironbox in 1832 he waits another thirteen years longer and this in itself could have cost the heirs of the associates their shares of the treasure. Robert Morris almost died at the age of 69 why did he not expound his secret to the author then instead of waiting another 16 years.

There is no record in the newspapers of St. Louis, Mo. or Franklin, Mo. some 200 miles further up the Missouri River about Thomas J. Beale's Party heading West or heading East the four trips he said he made.

The Spanish Archives are very accurate. They report every party by name and each member of the party and their names. Yet you search from 1817 to 1822 there never was a Thomas J. Beale or party in Sante Fe. They never traded and they were never arrested and they certainly did not buy any mining supplies as the Spanish would have accompanied them to the death. James Pursley only had a few nuggets in his shot pouch and the Spanish continually asked him to take them where he found the gold, Pursley refused and they kept him under house arrest from 1805 to 1822. Pursley was released and traveled back East with the Jacob Fowler Party.

This is my reasons for believing as ECS does that the Beale Treasure was a parlor story and made for profit. You can search and you can post how you broke C1 and C3 but believe you me if they could have been broken I would have broke them years ago. Happy Trails to you.

The Beale Papers actually say the papers were already numbered when taken out of the box. Then the author numbered them himself, according to their length, evidently as an experiment. He then said this failed but he kept the papers on his mind IN THEIR REGULAR ORDER. By numbering them according to their length, the author changed their regular order, or the way they were numbered when he first saw them. For proof of this, just notice that their order of numbering is NOT according to their length, which they would be if the author had kept them numbered according to their length. He clearly tells us that that failed at numbering them that way, and he kept them on his mind IN THEIR REGULAR ORDER.

 

[bigscoop]

The Beale Papers actually say the papers were already numbered when taken out of the box. Then the author numbered them himself, according to their length, evidently as an experiment. He then said this failed but he kept the papers on his mind IN THEIR REGULAR ORDER. By numbering them according to their length, the author changed their regular order, or the way they were numbered when he first saw them. For proof of this, just notice that their order of numbering is NOT according to their length, which they would be if the author had kept them numbered according to their length. He clearly tells us that that failed at numbering them that way, and he kept them on his mind IN THEIR REGULAR ORDER.

Nowhere, and I do mean, "Nowhere"...does the author even hint that the papers were already numbered prior to his numbering them. This is a condition that you only want to believe existed, when in reality this is never stated. What is CLEARLY stated is that the author had to number them according to their length to give the papers some means of a system that he could work from, (to which there apparently was none before, which is why he had to number them.) And of course, as we all know, this presented system doesn't even work in his own explanation of those events. Very clearly and quite obviously the author made serious error in this portion of his tale. No sense in continuing to try to find ways around this cold hard fact that is in his own words in his own narration. It's there, it exist, and so it is.

 

[Old Silver]

Nowhere, and I do mean, "Nowhere"...does the author even hint that the papers were already numbered prior to his numbering them. This is a condition that you only want to believe existed, when in reality this is never stated. What is CLEARLY stated is that the author had to number them according to their length to give the papers some means of a system that he could work from, (to which there apparently was none before, which is why he had to number them.) And of course, as we all know, this presented system doesn't even work in his own explanation of those events. Very clearly and quite obviously the author made serious error in this portion of his tale. No sense in continuing to try to find ways around this cold hard fact that is in his own words in his own narration. It's there, it exist, and so it is.

I agree, he doesn't hint at it. He says it. And no, he didn't say he HAD TO number them by length, that's just something you want to believe. And you can look at the papers and plainly see that they are not numbered according to their length, so clearly he didn't keep them that way.

It seems to me that there's no sense in continuing to try to find ANYTHING about the Beale papers if they're nothing but a dime novel, or hoax. So why do you care?