CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS

[Cryptography]

“It will be seen by a perusal of Mr. Beale's letter to Mr. Morriss that he promised, under certain contingencies, such as failure to see or communicate with him in a given time, to furnishing a key by which the papers would be fully explained. As the failure to do either actually occurred, and the promised explanation has never been received, it may possibly remain in the hands of some relative or friend of Beale's, or some other person engaged in the enterprise with him. That they would attach no importance to a seemingly unintelligible writingseems quite natural; but their attention being called to them by the publication of this narrative, may result in eventually bringing to light the missing paper.”


A) “...to furnishing a key by which the papers would be fully explained.”However, your author has allegedly already discovered a working key so now, and by his own explanation, the story's singular term “key” now becomes “keys.”This isn't even consistent with the story being narrated.


B) “....eventually bringing to light the missing paper.” Your author already has a key and he already has the ciphers, so, how does your author know that there is still a missing paper? Only one way in which he could know this.


C) “... seemingly unintelligible writing.” How does your author know that the missing paper will appear unintelligible? Again, only one way that he could know this.


Speculation? Hardly, as it is all laid out by the author's own hand in the original source material. The speculation comes into play when folks attempt to plant other meaning in what is already very clearly explained.

Interesting, you have made me understand you much better now . Thanks

 

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[bigscoop]

So it really doesn't matter what one's personal opinion of the story might be, i.e., fiction, hoax, partial truth, a lot of truth, etc., what is apparent and in the author's own words is that he wants his readers to believe that "there is a missing paper" and that this missing paper "will appear as an unintelligible writing."

Now then, only the author can explain his choice of words and his reasons for these remarks, but of possible interest is that he clearly identifies the missing as being a piece of paper and not a book or anything else of multiple pages, and he clearly identifies this missing paper, or writing, as appearing to be unintelligible to the uninformed eye.

So the question is simply this; were these statements just more bait in his fictional narration, or, were these statements accurate in identifying what was still missing and what was still required? Either way it is very clear that the author knew a great deal more about the subject then he narrated, weather the tale be a hoax, a simple work of fiction, a partial truth, or an entire truth.

This single paragraph still survives as the huge bane for every claim of remedy and solution that has ever been presented.

 

[legrand]

Bigscoop: Excellent post !! Very compelling writing. I may have an answer as to the "missing paper". I think it may be the Code 1 viewed in a different way. This is published and in the following recently published book by Cort Lindahal which I referenced in an above post. The Code 1 can be deciphered using letter frequency of all the numbers in the Code 1. This is a different methodology that ERE FEN FUE RED KNEE which uses only the first 16 numbers. Help Cort out with at least a purchase of his Kindle version of this book:

https://www.createspace.com/6320013

My research embellishment on the letter frequency decipherment is referenced in this book towards the end. It's good read and will help explain the grand conspiracy for which the Beale Papers was written in the first place. Here is the decipherment...the "missing paper" perhaps?:

THE VAULT LOCATION FROM WAONNIA DRUID NOW CANONIZE ST BURRIED N ORLEANS I WROTE A CTD TO SIX HQR TO RENE ONE INF TO DECODE IT TAKING RAIL STORRAGE SITE TREASURE S T S NEAR STONE IN LOCATION AT CREOLE TOSHONE NATION THE SR LIST RR OKEE MIKE SMELT ON A LOOK OVER BUTTE NO NEED A TRIP TO ELK MN ORE ARRIVING OAT OWN FERRY A TWO TOTEM MINT O GER BORNE SAINT JOHN R SIMONTON A HATTER ERSE ARRIVED IN LATE DEC EARLY AM HORA FTE REST SLEPT SIXTY FT RT OF WHOOTER IN LONG RAILWAY UNDERXING START TURNING SOD TEN FT O FUND ER SHED WE HOMESTEAD AT TRAIL EXIT NEXT O ROAD XACTLY AT FIVE FT WEST OF FISHING ISLAND AT SEAL IERS RETURN REUNCOVER IT WITH NO DIFFICULTY

You must read the book. Sorry, but it's important.

Legrand.

 

[ECS]

...

My research embellishment on the letter frequency decipherment is referenced in this book towards the end. It's good read and will help explain the grand conspiracy for which the Beale Papers was written in the first place. Here is the decipherment...the "missing paper" perhaps?:

THE VAULT LOCATION FROM WAONNIA DRUID NOW CANONIZE ST BURRIED N ORLEANS I WROTE A CTD TO SIX HQR TO RENE ONE INF TO DECODE IT TAKING RAIL STORRAGE SITE TREASURE S T S NEAR STONE IN LOCATION AT CREOLE TOSHONE NATION THE SR LIST RR OKEE MIKE SMELT ON A LOOK OVER BUTTE NO NEED A TRIP TO ELK MN ORE ARRIVING OAT OWN FERRY A TWO TOTEM MINT O GER BORNE SAINT JOHN R SIMONTON A HATTER ERSE ARRIVED IN LATE DEC EARLY AM HORA FTE REST SLEPT SIXTY FT RT OF WHOOTER IN LONG RAILWAY UNDERXING START TURNING SOD TEN FT O FUND ER SHED WE HOMESTEAD AT TRAIL EXIT NEXT O ROAD XACTLY AT FIVE FT WEST OF FISHING ISLAND AT SEAL IERS RETURN REUNCOVER IT WITH NO DIFFICULTY

You must read the book. Sorry, but it's important.

Legrand.

The DOI "solved" C2 is written in a straight forward understandable structured sentences.
What you posted is not, which does raise many questions concerning the revealed "message".

 

[bigscoop]

Ok, since we are now touching upon the many intricacies involving the various formats of the processes applied in trying to achieve a solution to C1, allow me to present some data that has been compiled over many years of unbiased research into the C1 cipher and its construction.


First of all, when I have stated in the past that solutions can be generated that are subject to an endless list of subjects I wasn't kidding. Over the years 70, 80, and even 90% grammatically correct solutions have been generated involving everything from Disney characters and those stories to the Illuminati and the events of the Civil War. You name it and a 70 to 90% grammatically correct solution can be achieved, and with good and sound reason.


The reasons why these solutions can be achieved are due to three factors within the construction of the cipher, the first being the length of the cipher and the wide range of codes, the second being the large number of single use codes, and the third, while still not fully understood, being the fact that the construction of the cipher allows for three to five segments of grammatically correct solution to be generated regardless of the subject matter or the process being applied, these three to five segments nearly always showing up in “exactly” the same locations within the cipher, and this still applies even when various languages are being applied. Why?


Now here's the huge catch in all of this, those troubled areas of the ciphers, well they seem to always revolve around roughly 26 codes that can't be made to workout. Does the number 26 ring any bells? How many letters are in the alphabet? How many codes are in the Gillogly strings? It is all of this data that leads to the cold hard fact that grammatically correct solutions of 70,80, and even 90% can be produced for an unlimited number of subjects, however, in the end it is always the last 30,20,10% of these solutions where the train wrecks “will always occur”, these inevitable train wrecks nearly always encompassing roughly 26 codes. And this next fact is really important, this all being done without the restrictions of a dedicated key which would only serve to increase and bring about the number of train wrecks much sooner due to the limitations placed upon these efforts by the key being applied.


Collectively were are talking thousands of attempts and hundreds of applied approaches over the years and this is why “I know” how solutions are generated, “why” they can be generated, and also the “limitations and short comings” of those proposed solutions. This is why I always ask the same questions whenever someone presents the claim of a new solution. This is also why I'm never surprised at the answers received. For every solution generated there is good and sound reason for its existence.

 

[tad10]

This isn't even consistent with the story being narrated.

It is, however, completely consistent with the fact that the Beale Papers are not to be taken at face value, and that the treasure it hides, is not the treasure described in the purportedly deciphered Cipher Two.

 

[bigscoop]

It is, however, completely consistent with the fact that the Beale Papers are not to be taken at face value, and that the treasure it hides, is not the treasure described in the purportedly deciphered Cipher Two.

And there is the extremely possible big duper, that it may actually hide no real treasure at all. We only want it to, but does it, really? To date not a single piece of directly connecting evidence has ever surfaced to support the claim in the narration at all, or that of any real treasure relating to it. Could be that the entire tale was nothing more then a simple short story with a unique twist. The plain truth of the situation is this, we are no further ahead in the mystery then those folks who took up the chase from day one.

 

[bigscoop]

Another curious factor that is seldom discussed is the apparent absence of local public interest in the narration even after all of the ads that had been placed. One would think that the local interest would be abuzz with discussion of the alleged treasure tale if there was any chance that it was true. which sort of offers the notion that perhaps the local knowledge of the source wasn't allowing them to entertain the tale with too much seriousness. It just seems odd that there doesn't appear to have been too much local buzz about the narration and its alleged treasure.

 

[Old Silver]

Another curious factor that is seldom discussed is the apparent absence of local public interest in the narration even after all of the ads that had been placed. One would think that the local interest would be abuzz with discussion of the alleged treasure tale if there was any chance that it was true. which sort of offers the notion that perhaps the local knowledge of the source wasn't allowing them to entertain the tale with too much seriousness. It just seems odd that there doesn't appear to have been too much local buzz about the narration and its alleged treasure.

Most people shrug at the notion of buried treasure, particularly when there are codes or maps involved, and with good reason most of the time.

 

[bigscoop]

Most people shrug at the notion of buried treasure, particularly when there are codes or maps involved, and with good reason most of the time.

Just look at these threads, so where was all of this same local buzz? Where are the investigative newspaper articles, the side stories, the interviews, the local letters and or entries in reference, etc.? Why no local, or even regional buzz? If there was any chance that the narration and treasure was the real deal then it would have certainly been big news, folks even possibly identifying members of the party if they had been regional men, etc. But we see none of this, not even any real attempts to do so. Why?

 

[Old Silver]

Just look at these threads, so where was all of this same local buzz? Where are the investigative newspaper articles, the side stories, the interviews, the local letters and or entries in reference, etc.? Why no local, or even regional buzz? If there was any chance that the narration and treasure was the real deal then it would have certainly been big news, folks even possibly identifying members of the party if they had been regional men, etc. But we see none of this, not even any real attempts to do so. Why?

Treasure hunting wasn't alway popular, and even now is only so with a certain few. I say the majority of people, even today, laugh at the notion of buried treasure. I would further say that the majority of posters on this site would laugh at most treasure stories.

The newspaper of the area in question was the one that published the story. What were they going to do, turn around and do a write-up about the story, after pulling it?

 

[bigscoop]

Yes, as I would fully expect the competing newspaper to do as well if they thought the story was credible enough. Newspapers survive on public interest pieces and a huge treasure buried in someone's back yard would certainly present a huge public interest piece worth digging into and following up on. And then there is the general public, why is there no evidence of any local buzz on the topic? Just seems to me that the ads and the narration got a rather chilly reception on the local and regional level.

 

[Old Silver]

Yes, as I would fully expect the competing newspaper to do as well if they thought the story was credible enough. Newspapers survive on public interest pieces and a huge treasure buried in someone's back yard would certainly present a huge public interest piece worth digging into and following up on. And then there is the general public, why is there no evidence of any local buzz on the topic? Just seems to me that the ads and the narration got a rather chilly reception on the local and regional level.

There would only be interest if people were interested. Now how many people do you think would have been interested? Nation wide, maybe there would have been enough interest to follow up, but locally, there apparently was not. Do you believe that the story was published in the local newspaper? If so, then where was the local interest? I'm sure there was a little interest, as a few later took up the chase.

 

[bigscoop]

Thirty men, of at least regional domicile. A huge treasure to which is to be recovered and divided among their heirs. In 1885 there would have been many heirs to step forward with the claim, “Yes, my grandfather/uncle was a member of this party”....and yet not a single person ever did, or has. Why? We're talking about thirty regional men who took at least two extended adventures in the unexplored west, certainly worth front page news by itself, let alone the alleged discovery of a mammoth treasure. And yet not a single friend or family member ever steps forward to validate the narration's claims or their possible wealthy inheritance. No local buzz. All of this seems mighty odd and rather suspect to me.

I can promise you this, if the same story as written today in "our little town" and you and I thought there was any chance that we were possible heirs to that wealth then we would certainly make our cases known, as would others. I seriously doubt this same reaction was any different back in the day. And yet, it is completely absent. Really?

 

[Old Silver]

Thirty men, of at least regional domicile. A huge treasure to which is to be recovered and divided among their heirs. In 1885 there would have been many heirs to step forward with the claim, “Yes, my grandfather/uncle was a member of this party”....and yet not a single person ever did, or has. Why? We're talking about thirty regional men who took at least two extended adventures in the unexplored west, certainly worth front page news by itself, let alone the alleged discovery of a mammoth treasure. And yet not a single friend or family member ever steps forward to validate the narration's claims or their possible wealthy inheritance. No local buzz. All of this seems mighty odd and rather suspect to me.

I can promise you this, if the same story as written today in "our little town" and you and I thought there was any chance that we were possible heirs to that wealth then we would certainly make our cases known, as would others. I seriously doubt this same reaction was any different back in the day. And yet, it is completely absent. Really?

And by the same token, there would have been people to step up and say it was a hoax, because there were people alive in 1885 that would have been there in 1820 and would have been of age. I know there is a claim that some family members stood against the story, claiming it was made up, but that claim is another empty claim, since there has never been any proof shown of it being true. I could claim there there is an article that shows a family claiming to be heirs of Beale or one of his crew, but I couldn't SHOW it. The same is true for the claim of others. But even if true, it would only prove my earlier point, that not many people believe in buried treasure stories. Few people do.

Yes, we would follow such a claim, if we thought we were heirs to what might have been buried, but only if we saw the story in the paper. Did everyone in Richmond subscribe to the Lynchburg newspaper? Very doubtful. What reason would people in Richmond have had to follow the goings on in Lynchburg? We have almost two hundred years of the story that we have absorbed as a treasure hunting "brotherhood," and we know the connection of the two towns with the Beale story, but the same was not true with the generation of that day. There is no reason I know of to think that the families of those involved with Beale would have known anything about the involvement with the town of Lynchburg.

We can't be 100% certain that nothing of the Beale expedition ever existed. Much has been lost over the years. If you don't believe that, spend a few years doing genealogy, and then you'll know.

 

[bigscoop]

And by the same token, there would have been people to step up and say it was a hoax, because there were people alive in 1885 that would have been there in 1820 and would have been of age. I know there is a claim that some family members stood against the story, claiming it was made up, but that claim is another empty claim, since there has never been any proof shown of it being true. I could claim there there is an article that shows a family claiming to be heirs of Beale or one of his crew, but I couldn't SHOW it. The same is true for the claim of others. But even if true, it would only prove my earlier point, that not many people believe in buried treasure stories. Few people do.

Yes, we would follow such a claim, if we thought we were heirs to what might have been buried, but only if we saw the story in the paper. Did everyone in Richmond subscribe to the Lynchburg newspaper? Very doubtful. What reason would people in Richmond have had to follow the goings on in Lynchburg? We have almost two hundred years of the story that we have absorbed as a treasure hunting "brotherhood," and we know the connection of the two towns with the Beale story, but the same was not true with the generation of that day. There is no reason I know of to think that the families of those involved with Beale would have known anything about the involvement with the town of Lynchburg.

We can't be 100% certain that nothing of the Beale expedition ever existed. Much has been lost over the years. If you don't believe that, spend a few years doing genealogy, and then you'll know.

Genealogy.....has nothing to do with anything pertaining to the subject at hand, what we're talking about here is the local response to the narration, or more accurately, the complete lack of it. What we are talking about here is the complete lack of the typical human response whenever wealth is at stake. What we are talking about here is the complete absence of any supporting verification, or claim of, on all avenues within the local/regional general populace. Now perhaps you can explain this all away, but I certainly can't. Millions of dollars in gold, silver and jewels free for the taking and apparently nobody desires any of it or wishes to get involved. "Fat chance!"

 

[Old Silver]

Genealogy.....has nothing to do with anything pertaining to the subject at hand, what we're talking about here is the local response to the narration, or more accurately, the complete lack of it. What we are talking about here is the complete lack of the typical human response whenever wealth is at stake. What we are talking about here is the complete absence of any supporting verification, or claim of, on all avenues within the local/regional general populace. Now perhaps you can explain this all away, but I certainly can't. Millions of dollars in gold, silver and jewels free for the taking and apparently nobody desires any of it or wishes to get involved. "Fat chance!"

When you say records don't exist, then genealogy has EVERYTHING to do with it, because genealogy will show you the fact that many records have been lost or destroyed, and many others are extremely difficult to find, particularly the older ones. Just give it a try and prove it to yourself. No need to take my word for it. The point is, if records have been lost, then we today would not find them.

What we are talking about is a lack of claims by family members, etc., but do we know that these people would have even seen the story in the paper? You didn't respond to that part. I think we have agreed that the story was not overly popular at the time. And how long was the story even in the paper? I'm not trying to explain away anything, I'm just trying to look at all sides of the issue. There have been things found that suggest evidence of truth of the Beale story, but no actual proof. The same is true for the falsehood of the story.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And there is the extremely possible big duper, that it may actually hide no real treasure at all. We only want it to, but does it, really? To date not a single piece of directly connecting evidence has ever surfaced to support the claim in the narration at all, or that of any real treasure relating to it. Could be that the entire tale was nothing more then a simple short story with a unique twist. The plain truth of the situation is this, we are no further ahead in the mystery then those folks who took up the chase from day one.

1885 or so...

 

[audigger53]

I have always believed that if the story was real, then the clue to the location cipher would be in the cipher of the members of the party. I have not heard of anyone trying to break the cipher of the names of the members. If I was doing it, that would be the key to the last cipher for the location of the cache. But that's just me.

 

[bigscoop]

First of all, I am no stranger to genealogy....or the multitudes of inaccuracies, varied determinations, and frequent speculations that often exist. Genealogy is far from a perfect world and just as we have seen in the Beale mystery it too has failed to produce one single directly connecting piece of evidence to the Beale mystery. So here again we have yet another avenue that has been traveled time and time again with no significant discovery. Genealogy research isn't magic and it can't turn up anything that can't be found by other processes because just like these other process it too survives on the same "recorded physical histories".